4 hours ago, kelownabomberfan said:

wow Nealon Greene played 18 years ago and we're still talking about him.  That's pretty amazing.

You don't forget the inspiration for the term glorified running back

On 2024-12-14 at 2:13 PM, JuranBoldenRules said:

They had the #1 offense by points per game, yards per game and rushing yards per game and yards per carry with MBT starting.

yup.  I don't get why MBT gets no respect around here.  Dude delivers.

On 2024-12-14 at 4:37 PM, HardCoreBlue said:

You think Ford has hit his ceiling? 

Ford's all smoke & mirrors. Phenomenal athletic ability is what gets him by & not any great knowjedge of reading defenses. He's a phenomenal runner but then so are 95% with his skill set in the CFL. They never last.

Yeah and Dru Brown should have never played another down of football after his first start...

https://3downnation.com/2024/12/16/2025-grey-cup-odds/

Really-Really-Very Early 2025 Grey Cup Odds.

Ridiculous. I got better Odds during Grey Cup week than these guys are offering me 11 months out.

16 hours ago, GCn20 said:

The difference is Greene could not make most of the throws, and Fajardo can only make some of the throws. 

and at that...only some of the time

2 hours ago, bluto said:

https://3downnation.com/2024/12/16/2025-grey-cup-odds/

Really-Really-Very Early 2025 Grey Cup Odds.

Ridiculous. I got better Odds during Grey Cup week than these guys are offering me 11 months out.

AND the appropriate response to all of this is......DEAD AIR

Hopefully Chad Kelly doesn't harass any women this offseason.

3 hours ago, Booch said:

and at that...only some of the time

With Fajardo, you can micro manage an offence that will produce, though under achieve for sure. Greene you basically run wildcat type stuff and some old timey passes as trick plays early football days stuff. And he would still underachieve. 
 

ford vs Fajardo, who has the better year in 25? Even though he doesn’t have a team and won’t have a path to be qb1, i still take Fajardo. 

37 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

With Fajardo, you can micro manage an offence that will produce, though under achieve for sure. Greene you basically run wildcat type stuff and some old timey passes as trick plays early football days stuff. And he would still underachieve. 
 

ford vs Fajardo, who has the better year in 25? Even though he doesn’t have a team and won’t have a path to be qb1, i still take Fajardo. 

Have to give Fajardo credit, he just completed his 8th season in the CFL, not many dual threat QB's are still effective running the ball after that length of time.  

11 minutes ago, Fatty Liver said:

Have to give Fajardo credit, he just completed his 8th season in the CFL, not many dual threat QB's are still effective running the ball after that length of time.  

Mileage is pretty low on him though. He was a backup for half of that time.

9 minutes ago, Fatty Liver said:

Have to give Fajardo credit, he just completed his 8th season in the CFL, not many dual threat QB's are still effective running the ball after that length of time.  

Good point. Been really healthy for a guy who’s a dual threat. 
 Hes kind of in the Matt nichols tier between 2nd and top rank QBs. He’s not any one’s first pick for starting qb. But he does enough to give his team a chance. 
 The team that gets him to be a back up will be pretty happy. 

1 minute ago, GCn20 said:

Mileage is pretty low on him though. He was a backup for half of that time.

Not wrong. 74 starts in 124 games. Basically 3 years as a back up, followed by 5 straight as a starter. I think that’s pretty normal for cfl QBs though. Most guys don’t become starters in year 2. 

13 hours ago, johnzo said:

yup.  I don't get why MBT gets no respect around here.  Dude delivers.

Butbutbut...he doesn't sound or act like the others here.....

7 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Ford's all smoke & mirrors. Phenomenal athletic ability is what gets him by & not any great knowjedge of reading defenses. He's a phenomenal runner but then so are 95% with his skill set in the CFL. They never last.

Damon Allen and Matt Dunigan say Hi

7 minutes ago, Tracker said:

Butbutbut...he doesn't sound or act like the others here.....

Damon Allen and Matt Dunigan say Hi

Pro football players, especially QBs are weird people. What a guy goes through especially playing ball in the us growing up warps their perception of reality. And of them self. 
 Mbt as a player is an oddity as well. He’s a guy who can put up numbers and not propel you to wins. But he’s also a guy you can win with. Hes the strongest testament to football being a team game and wins not being a qb stat that exists. I group him with Trevor Harris in terms of quality.  
 I actually agree a lot with his criticisms of the league last year. He is a nut though even by nutty qb standards. 
 

Imo Damon Allen was a smoke and mirrors guy till his renaissance. Some times QBs need that. Like ac did. 

Fajardo is a guy who is good at broken plays. He's too stupid to quit so sometimes pulls a rabbit out of his hat. Running a real offense though? He isn't good. 

27 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Fajardo is a guy who is good at broken plays. He's too stupid to quit so sometimes pulls a rabbit out of his hat. Running a real offense though? He isn't good. 

kinda explains him to a tee actually....broken plays.....chicken with head off running around lunacy.....dumb decisions that panned out....designed run calls....tha have been his bread and butter, and have worked....at times....but a consistent cerbral QB to run an offence....look for...see....AND take advantage of a defense's weakness....he's not that guy

He is a guy you are better off not even trying to pressure cause his instinct is just use his legs and try and buy time and something will present itself. You just play contain him him though he will go right into trouble.

58 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Fajardo is a guy who is good at broken plays. He's too stupid to quit so sometimes pulls a rabbit out of his hat. Running a real offense though? He isn't good. 

 

28 minutes ago, Booch said:

kinda explains him to a tee actually....broken plays.....chicken with head off running around lunacy.....dumb decisions that panned out....designed run calls....tha have been his bread and butter, and have worked....at times....but a consistent cerbral QB to run an offence....look for...see....AND take advantage of a defense's weakness....he's not that guy

Broken plays, and extremely fast timing plays. Hes really effective at one step drop timing routes. 
 I don’t think his issue is actually football iq, It comes of to me more as being mentally soft. He doesn’t have that mental toughness that Dru brown or zach does. If he went through what either did he’d break 10 times over. 
 

If you tell him he can’t make a throw enough times, he won’t be able to. Public opinion has a huge sway on his confidence as a player as well. Which isn’t good. 

I'd say he's just an instinctual player. Make him think it all falls apart, but when he is just reacting it's ok. 

Guess that's the debate whether it's mental toughness or mental ability.

10 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

I'd say he's just an instinctual player. Make him think it all falls apart, but when he is just reacting it's ok. 

Guess that's the debate whether it's mental toughness or mental ability.

Yeah I’d agree with that. He’s like the cfls Johnny manziel. 

2 hours ago, wbbfan said:

Not wrong. 74 starts in 124 games. Basically 3 years as a back up, followed by 5 straight as a starter. I think that’s pretty normal for cfl QBs though. Most guys don’t become starters in year 2. 

The dude's game has changed a bunch in his time as a starter tho -- he used to be at his best running around, scrambling, making DLs look silly with that spin move and making big hay on broken plays.  nowadays he's not nearly as zippy as he once was, he plays much more controlled with quick throws from the pocket.  Looks like mileage and maturity (and the Maas coaching) has been accumulating.

Edited December 16, 20241 yr by johnzo

2 hours ago, Tracker said:

Damon Allen and Matt Dunigan say Hi

speaking of running QBs, Tracy Ham was one of the most complete guys I've ever seen play.  He could kill you with his legs or his arm and he was way more consistent than guys like Dunigan and Allen were.  Basically a QB designed for the CFL, not a glorified running back.

I think Ham is a guy we don't talk about enough when talking about the all-time greats -- he's not a Flutie or Moon but fits real nice in the tier underneath those guys.

Edited December 16, 20241 yr by johnzo

25 minutes ago, johnzo said:

speaking of running QBs, Tracy Ham was one of the most complete guys I've ever seen play.  He could kill you with his legs or his arm and he was way more consistent than guys like Dunigan and Allen were.  Basically a QB designed for the CFL, not a glorified running back.

I think Ham is a guy we don't talk about enough when talking about the all-time greats -- he's not a Flutie or Moon but fits real nice in the tier underneath those guys.

You lost me at Dunigan. Hey everyone has a right to their opinion but Ham was not a better Qb than Dunigan .....

Dunigan at his best was fantastic, but I don't think you'd ever call him clutch. He laid a lot of playoff / Grey Cup eggs.

The one I remember best is the Grey Cup in 1992. Our D was awesome, it held Flutie & Co to just 24 points, but it got zero support from the O.  Dunigan only mustered 46 yards of passing in 3+ quarters before he got pulled for Danny Mac.  He was worse than numb-thumb Collaros.

Edited December 16, 20241 yr by johnzo

53 minutes ago, johnzo said:

The dude's game has changed a bunch in his time as a starter tho -- he used to be at his best running around, scrambling, making DLs look silly with that spin move and making big hay on broken plays.  nowadays he's not nearly as zippy as he once was, he plays much more controlled with quick throws from the pocket.  Looks like mileage and maturity (and the Maas coaching) has been accumulating.

I think a lot of that comes down to Maas doing a great job of off setting fajardos weaknesses. Plus having stellar talent at ol and wr. But he has certainly matured and doesn’t just need to rely on spin move left to right! lol 

 

49 minutes ago, johnzo said:

speaking of running QBs, Tracy Ham was one of the most complete guys I've ever seen play.  He could kill you with his legs or his arm and he was way more consistent than guys like Dunigan and Allen were.  Basically a QB designed for the CFL, not a glorified running back.

I think Ham is a guy we don't talk about enough when talking about the all-time greats -- he's not a Flutie or Moon but fits real nice in the tier underneath those guys.

Qft