So to recap, among his main moves to this point are the signing of Aaron Kelly and Greg Peach, both of whom have made impacts to varying degrees in their time here. He's taken a chance on Mike Sims-Walker, and he traded Buck Pierce, who was not going to be back, and managed to get a non import in the process.

 

The question I have is (And I'm not advocating we forgo a thorough search for a GM in the offseason) what would it take for you to want Kyle Walters be the official General Manager heading into next season?

 

So, expect the defense to play lights out for 4 quarters while your qb shits the bed?? Great strategy.

well... yea. And ST to bring one or two to as well.. im hoping not every game but its not unheard of before..

i think goltz can be a nealon greene type qb (minus brain farts i hope) move the ball with feet and manage a game.. if he starts to hit his targets, all the more awesome..

 

Ten years ago, my son was at the Oregon State football camp. There was a scrimmage & one of the qbs threw an interception. A coach yelled, "NEEEEALOOOOON. NEALON GREENE!!!!" Pretty funny.

I am still in support of giving Goltz more time to develop, but I am slightly disappointed in his scrambling abilities. Perhaps Goltz is the fastest QB in the league, or at least one of the quicker ones, but I haven't seen much of the ability to scramble when he's in trouble. We saw Durant get away from pressure frequently and I even think ol' Buck still has a decent ability to get away from pressure(when given the green light), but when I see Goltz try to run under pressure, he usually moves forward a few yards and then gets taken down. I don't see him buying himself extra time or breaking contain to get a first down all that often.

I will say that he may improve in this area, but I sure was jealous seeing how great Durant was at escaping pressure.

It's all awareness.

 

From what I've seen, the things Goltz struggles with are the things that you improve with experience.

I am still in support of giving Goltz more time to develop, but I am slightly disappointed in his scrambling abilities. Perhaps Goltz is the fastest QB in the league, or at least one of the quicker ones, but I haven't seen much of the ability to scramble when he's in trouble. We saw Durant get away from pressure frequently and I even think ol' Buck still has a decent ability to get away from pressure(when given the green light), but when I see Goltz try to run under pressure, he usually moves forward a few yards and then gets taken down. I don't see him buying himself extra time or breaking contain to get a first down all that often.

I will say that he may improve in this area, but I sure was jealous seeing how great Durant was at escaping pressure.

however Durant did also get sacked 8 times... Perhaps you're guilty of remembering the times Durant was able to get away and for Goltz you're more focussed on the times he was caught. 

 

I am still in support of giving Goltz more time to develop, but I am slightly disappointed in his scrambling abilities. Perhaps Goltz is the fastest QB in the league, or at least one of the quicker ones, but I haven't seen much of the ability to scramble when he's in trouble. We saw Durant get away from pressure frequently and I even think ol' Buck still has a decent ability to get away from pressure(when given the green light), but when I see Goltz try to run under pressure, he usually moves forward a few yards and then gets taken down. I don't see him buying himself extra time or breaking contain to get a first down all that often.

I will say that he may improve in this area, but I sure was jealous seeing how great Durant was at escaping pressure.

however Durant did also get sacked 8 times... Perhaps you're guilty of remembering the times Durant was able to get away and for Goltz you're more focussed on the times he was caught. 

 

Agree with WildPath. Goltz is fast in a straight line, but does not seem as elusive under pressure as some other QBs. This applies not only to durant, lulay, burris, but also reilly, mitchell and definitely collaros, so I don't think its just an experience issue. Not sure if its a pocket presence issue, or just that as a larger quarterback, he's not as shifty. May still improve with time.

Well in the case of Durant specifically, he's a lot stronger so he's harder to bring down for sure. 

Goltz at times looks like a broken passer out there.  But with what we've seen of the guys we have, he has the best tools to win us some games.  And I think Mike is on the right track when he says the stuff Goltz struggles with is the stuff that improves with experience.

 

I don't love what I've seen out of Goltz, but I think he's worth investing the rest of the season in to see what we've got; given the extreme unlikelihood of another team dealing us their #2 QB midseason, as opposed to after the season and before the cutoff before the expansion draft. 

I don't love what I've seen out of Goltz, but I think he's worth investing the rest of the season in to see what we've got; given the extreme unlikelihood of another team dealing us their #2 QB midseason, as opposed to after the season and before the cutoff before the expansion draft. 

 

I don't mind starting him, but if he isn't moving the ball then it becomes time for Hall or Boultus. Don't leave him in if he is being innefective. Even if he is pulled for a series and goes back in.

 

I am still in support of giving Goltz more time to develop, but I am slightly disappointed in his scrambling abilities. Perhaps Goltz is the fastest QB in the league, or at least one of the quicker ones, but I haven't seen much of the ability to scramble when he's in trouble. We saw Durant get away from pressure frequently and I even think ol' Buck still has a decent ability to get away from pressure(when given the green light), but when I see Goltz try to run under pressure, he usually moves forward a few yards and then gets taken down. I don't see him buying himself extra time or breaking contain to get a first down all that often.

I will say that he may improve in this area, but I sure was jealous seeing how great Durant was at escaping pressure.

however Durant did also get sacked 8 times... Perhaps you're guilty of remembering the times Durant was able to get away and for Goltz you're more focussed on the times he was caught. 

 

But Durant was back to pass a hell of a lot more. Goltz got sacked 7 times on 15 pass attempts, thats horrific.

 

 

I am still in support of giving Goltz more time to develop, but I am slightly disappointed in his scrambling abilities. Perhaps Goltz is the fastest QB in the league, or at least one of the quicker ones, but I haven't seen much of the ability to scramble when he's in trouble. We saw Durant get away from pressure frequently and I even think ol' Buck still has a decent ability to get away from pressure(when given the green light), but when I see Goltz try to run under pressure, he usually moves forward a few yards and then gets taken down. I don't see him buying himself extra time or breaking contain to get a first down all that often.

I will say that he may improve in this area, but I sure was jealous seeing how great Durant was at escaping pressure.

however Durant did also get sacked 8 times... Perhaps you're guilty of remembering the times Durant was able to get away and for Goltz you're more focussed on the times he was caught. 

 

But Durant was back to pass a hell of a lot more. Goltz got sacked 7 times on 15 pass attempts, thats horrific.

 

 7 times on 24 dropbacks as opposed to 8 times on 42 dropbacks.

 

Just for accuracy's sake.

 

I don't love what I've seen out of Goltz, but I think he's worth investing the rest of the season in to see what we've got; given the extreme unlikelihood of another team dealing us their #2 QB midseason, as opposed to after the season and before the cutoff before the expansion draft. 

 

I don't mind starting him, but if he isn't moving the ball then it becomes time for Hall or Boultus. Don't leave him in if he is being innefective. Even if he is pulled for a series and goes back in.

 

 

Disagree with this entirely.  We're too impatient here in Wpg with QB's and being ineffective in the short-term.  Need to leave him in there to try to work through the kinks, and see if he can develop.  The Bombers and Walters need to see a body of work from Goltz... he's a developmental passer, he's not going to show you enough in small, segmented periods of time to form a basis for judgement. 

 

 

I don't love what I've seen out of Goltz, but I think he's worth investing the rest of the season in to see what we've got; given the extreme unlikelihood of another team dealing us their #2 QB midseason, as opposed to after the season and before the cutoff before the expansion draft. 

 

I don't mind starting him, but if he isn't moving the ball then it becomes time for Hall or Boultus. Don't leave him in if he is being innefective. Even if he is pulled for a series and goes back in.

 

 

Disagree with this entirely.  We're too impatient here in Wpg with QB's and being ineffective in the short-term.  Need to leave him in there to try to work through the kinks, and see if he can develop.  The Bombers and Walters need to see a body of work from Goltz... he's a developmental passer, he's not going to show you enough in small, segmented periods of time to form a basis for judgement. 

 

 

Give him a half, not a whole game if he is being innefective. Alternatively, pull him for a couple of series and have him watch what the defence is doing, then stick him back in.

 

There is a happy medium between yanking at the first bad pass and leaving him in the whole game regardless.

With our D'Oh line the D-line can almost beat the shotgunned ball back to the Q.B.  Goltz is dealing with the insane pressure better than anyone this season for us. 

 

Durant throws it away under pressure, with our line he would probably go 0-42.  And who could blame him? 

 

Goltz rocks!

I watched the first half for the first time today. After listening to the radio rip him up and the comments on here, I was expecting Goltz to be awful. Frankly I don't think it was terrible.

He had a pass literally go right through Edwards' hands, who was as usual about to argue for a flag. Later he had a throw smack right off Kohlert's shoulder pads when the WR took his eyes off the ball. Near the end of the half he made a decent albeit under thrown ball that Denmark couldn't catch in the end zone (the throw wasn't good and it would have been a hard catch, but still it was almost a completion).

What I thought he struggled with was knowing when to throw the ball away. I felt that way last week too. I want to see him get the ball out when the blitz is on. Sometimes he still tries to scramble even when there isn't an open lane. It would help if our offensive line didn't completely just fall over anytime there's a blitz.

Right now the goal should be to keep Goltz upright and see if that makes this a lot prettier. My guess is you'll see a big improvement.

For now I still think he makes the best decisions of any QB on the roster, and provides added versatility with his feet. We can be successful with him.

 

 

 

I don't love what I've seen out of Goltz, but I think he's worth investing the rest of the season in to see what we've got; given the extreme unlikelihood of another team dealing us their #2 QB midseason, as opposed to after the season and before the cutoff before the expansion draft. 

 

I don't mind starting him, but if he isn't moving the ball then it becomes time for Hall or Boultus. Don't leave him in if he is being innefective. Even if he is pulled for a series and goes back in.

 

 

Disagree with this entirely.  We're too impatient here in Wpg with QB's and being ineffective in the short-term.  Need to leave him in there to try to work through the kinks, and see if he can develop.  The Bombers and Walters need to see a body of work from Goltz... he's a developmental passer, he's not going to show you enough in small, segmented periods of time to form a basis for judgement. 

 

 

Give him a half, not a whole game if he is being innefective. Alternatively, pull him for a couple of series and have him watch what the defence is doing, then stick him back in.

 

There is a happy medium between yanking at the first bad pass and leaving him in the whole game regardless.

 

^This^.

Once again twelve yards .... You should have more then that in even your first ever start.... if this happens again he should be pulled regardless of the lead or not.

I expect that he should be getting at least 225-250 yards on average per game...

Once again twelve yards .... You should have more then that in even your first ever start.... if this happens again he should be pulled regardless of the lead or not.

I expect that he should be getting at least 225-250 yards on average per game...

 

even when there were 2 passes that blatantly are dropped by receivers that would get you first downs and allow you another series to get yardage in addition to the yards those passes would have added on to the totals? This isn't just on the qb. when you have 12 yards passing safe to say it's a collective pants shitting. 

Just watched the game.  Almost as good the 2nd time.

 

Man, the refs suck.  The Command Centre is a joke.   Are they using rabbit ears and black and white T.V.'s?????  Wowsers.

 

Once again twelve yards .... You should have more then that in even your first ever start.... if this happens again he should be pulled regardless of the lead or not.

I expect that he should be getting at least 225-250 yards on average per game...

 

even when there were 2 passes that blatantly are dropped by receivers that would get you first downs and allow you another series to get yardage in addition to the yards those passes would have added on to the totals? This isn't just on the qb. when you have 12 yards passing safe to say it's a collective pants shitting. 

 

2 dropped passes does not a half make! When you lock onto your favorite QB at the moment, you really lock on!

 

 

Once again twelve yards .... You should have more then that in even your first ever start.... if this happens again he should be pulled regardless of the lead or not.

I expect that he should be getting at least 225-250 yards on average per game...

 

even when there were 2 passes that blatantly are dropped by receivers that would get you first downs and allow you another series to get yardage in addition to the yards those passes would have added on to the totals? This isn't just on the qb. when you have 12 yards passing safe to say it's a collective pants shitting. 

 

2 dropped passes does not a half make! When you lock onto your favorite QB at the moment, you really lock on!

 

Actually 2 dropped passes can make huge differences in time.  You drop a pass on 2nd and whatever, and your drive stops, you have to punt.  The pass is caught and that drive could have lasted another 5 minutes of playing time (if they can keep the drive alive).  The same can be said for a missed throw.

 

 

 

Once again twelve yards .... You should have more then that in even your first ever start.... if this happens again he should be pulled regardless of the lead or not.

I expect that he should be getting at least 225-250 yards on average per game...

 

even when there were 2 passes that blatantly are dropped by receivers that would get you first downs and allow you another series to get yardage in addition to the yards those passes would have added on to the totals? This isn't just on the qb. when you have 12 yards passing safe to say it's a collective pants shitting. 

 

2 dropped passes does not a half make! When you lock onto your favorite QB at the moment, you really lock on!

 

Actually 2 dropped passes can make huge differences in time.  You drop a pass on 2nd and whatever, and your drive stops, you have to punt.  The pass is caught and that drive could have lasted another 5 minutes of playing time (if they can keep the drive alive).  The same can be said for a missed throw.

 

yes exactly, you drop passes on 2nd downs the offense is coming off the field. Catch them and the drive keeps going and maybe goes 70 yards for a touchdown, maybe not but it's a possibility. There's no locking onto a favourite qb here, there is only trying to help people understand the big picture. 

12 yards....  so if he had 2 less dropped passes he may of had 40 yards?   Seriously is our expectations really that low?

yes exactly, you drop passes on 2nd downs the offense is coming off the field. Catch them and the drive keeps going and maybe goes 70 yards for a touchdown, maybe not but it's a possibility. There's no locking onto a favourite qb here, there is only trying to help people understand the big picture. 

 

Or maybe he would have thrown two incompletions and gone off the field and his stats would look even worse.  Pointless to get into hypotheticals based on dropped passes because guess what, every QB has to deal with dropped passes.

 

yes exactly, you drop passes on 2nd downs the offense is coming off the field. Catch them and the drive keeps going and maybe goes 70 yards for a touchdown, maybe not but it's a possibility. There's no locking onto a favourite qb here, there is only trying to help people understand the big picture. 

 

Or maybe he would have thrown two incompletions and gone off the field and his stats would look even worse.  Pointless to get into hypotheticals based on dropped passes because guess what, every QB has to deal with dropped passes.

 

and maybe he would have got sacked or maybe fumbled or maybe threw an INT, point is we just don't know. It's as likely he could have made some more throws and picked up some more yards as anything else, but you can't fault a qb when others are the ones taking the offense off the field in 2 seperate occasions. 

 

 

 

Once again twelve yards .... You should have more then that in even your first ever start.... if this happens again he should be pulled regardless of the lead or not.

I expect that he should be getting at least 225-250 yards on average per game...

 

even when there were 2 passes that blatantly are dropped by receivers that would get you first downs and allow you another series to get yardage in addition to the yards those passes would have added on to the totals? This isn't just on the qb. when you have 12 yards passing safe to say it's a collective pants shitting. 

 

2 dropped passes does not a half make! When you lock onto your favorite QB at the moment, you really lock on!

 

Actually 2 dropped passes can make huge differences in time.  You drop a pass on 2nd and whatever, and your drive stops, you have to punt.  The pass is caught and that drive could have lasted another 5 minutes of playing time (if they can keep the drive alive).  The same can be said for a missed throw.

 

This is correct. Factors like dropped passes, blown coverage by the defense, and YAC can make a huge difference to a QBs stats, but have little to do with their performance. I can remember at least 2 instances from the TO/montreal game that padded Collaros' stats. One was a short pass, where the TO receiver got huge YAC with a great open field run. The other was a blown coverage by Montreal that left a TO receiver wide open for a long touchdown pass, a pass that collaros actually threw poorly, and he had to make a great catch over his wrong shoulder. So the actual game matters not just the stats. Having said that, these variables tend to even out somewhat over time, most QBs stats reflect a few dropped passes during the course of a game, and the concern about Goltz's first half yardage occurs in the context of low passing yards in his previous games also. The Kohlert drop would not have led to a first down and would have added about 7 yards to Goltz's total, the Edwards drop about another 7, plus whatever they pick up on their next series.