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1 hour ago, The Unknown Poster said:

He was toast. Even with the cheating.  Even by energizing a core that usually doesn’t vote, by appealing to their racism and stupidity.  He was way behind Hilary.  As dumb as Rudy is he did one thing right.  He leveraged his relationships in the NY fbi to pressure Comey into doing what I’m sure he felt was exceedingly fair but in reality was the most idiotic boneheaded things in the history of American politics.  And it handed trump a presidency he didn’t earn, deserve or want. 
 

this year trump has about the same chance.  Virtually none.  Outside of a crazy scandal, which the alt right is desperately trying to conjure up or absurd cheating or some sort of disaster that allows the admin to stifle votes (and you can see how they want to use Covid to do that), trump really has no chance.   I mess Biden drops dead two weeks before the election or suffers a debilitating stroke or something, there is virtually nothing trump can actually do on his own to win. He’s never polled close to “winner”.  And even when his approval was its highest he trailed well behind Biden.  
 

and that’s before Obama even enters this thing.  

Sad to say, Trump's approval has slipped only marginally, according to a CNN poll today- from 42 to 40%. His supporters will follow him right into the abyss- ethnic cleansing, jailing of opposing voices- the whole nine yards.

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25 minutes ago, Tracker said:

Sad to say, Trump's approval has slipped only marginally, according to a CNN poll today- from 42 to 40%. His supporters will follow him right into the abyss- ethnic cleansing, jailing of opposing voices- the whole nine yards.

Won’t be enough. And honestly if he could take those cross supporters right to hell with him, all the better. 

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14 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Lol

 

To re-iterate: there is literally nothing that Trump can do that will cause his slavering followers in the GOP and electorate that will cause them to abandon him. Similarly, there is no depth to which he will sink to defend his record or improve his chances of re-election. Around 1880, the GOP candidate lost the popular vote and the electoral college vote but refused to leave office, claiming voter fraud. His supporters threatened another civil war if he was ousted and the spineless Democrats caved in and let him serve another term, so the precedent has been set. Given Trump's record in business as well as his display as president, it is no stretch to assume that he would threaten the same and exhort his followers to resort to violence. It worked for Hitler, so why not, and Trump's father was a fascist sympathizer and was arrested at a Nazi rally.

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40 minutes ago, Tracker said:

To re-iterate: there is literally nothing that Trump can do that will cause his slavering followers in the GOP and electorate that will cause them to abandon him. Similarly, there is no depth to which he will sink to defend his record or improve his chances of re-election. Around 1880, the GOP candidate lost the popular vote and the electoral college vote but refused to leave office, claiming voter fraud. His supporters threatened another civil war if he was ousted and the spineless Democrats caved in and let him serve another term, so the precedent has been set. Given Trump's record in business as well as his display as president, it is no stretch to assume that he would threaten the same and exhort his followers to resort to violence. It worked for Hitler, so why not, and Trump's father was a fascist sympathizer and was arrested at a Nazi rally.

Well thats not entirely accurate.  It was the election of 1876 between Hayes & Tilden.  Grant was the Incumbent.   There were allegations of voter fraud on both sides.  Hayes won the electoral college by 1.  To settle the controversy, Congress formed an Electoral Commission. made up of 5 members from each house and five members from the Supreme Court.

This resulted in 5 Republicans, 5 Democrats.  They chose 2 Justices from each side.  The Democrats then tried to buy off the deciding Justice by having the Illinois legislature elect David Davis (who both sides had agreed on as the 5th representative from the Supreme Court) to the US Senate.  The Dems assumed Davis would side with them as a result.  Instead, he resigned from the Supreme Court to take the Senate seat.  All the remaining Justices were Republican so the commission agreed on the one deemed least partial.

Each disputed state submitted their cases, arguments were heard from both sides.  The commission decided that Hayes had won by 1 electoral college vote.  There was no issue when Hayes was inaugurated two days later.

Its important to note that at the time, the Democrats were the party that was seen as racist and lobbied for concessions for their Southern States.

Quote

Though it is not possible to conclude definitively what the result would have been if a fair election had been held without the violence and intimidation throughout the South that disenfranchised many African Americans made eligible to vote under the 15th Amendment,[19] in the likeliest fair scenario, Hayes would have won the election (with 189 electoral votes to Tilden's 180) by winning all of the states that he did ultimately carry, plus Mississippi, but minus Florida.[19] In a truly fair election, it seems probable that South Carolina, Mississippi, and Louisiana, which all had majority-black populations, would have gone Republican, while Florida, with a majority white population, would have likely gone to Tilden.[19] It is therefore likely that Hayes would have won appreciably more of the popular vote in a fair election, perhaps even a plurality or majority.[19]

The Democrats accepted Hayes due to a compromise that pulled the feds out of the south as well as a number of other concessions.

So its a poor example in context.  Its probably better to look at Bush v Gore to see how any dispute would be handled today, which would be lawsuits up to the Supreme Court.  There is no mechanism for Trump to refuse to leave office and simply remain President unless he simply abolished the Congress, ripped up the Constitution and somehow had the backing of the military to do so.

If he delays the election, or there is some prolonged dispute, by the constitution, this term expires on inauguration day.  The power to direct the Secret Service, armed forces etc would no longer be his.  The powers would reside with the winner (presumably Biden) who would obviously have Trump removed.  Realistically, Biden, if he won, would be President on inauguration day even if Trump barricaded himself in the White House.

If the election results were contested, Trump could lean on Congress not to tally the votes.  That could only really happen if the GOP won both houses.  And again, if you dispute the results, how can you accept the congressional votes?  He could order Pence not to cooperate with the tallying of votes.  He could launch lawsuits.

But on inauguration day, Trump ceases to be President and the new President begins to serve.  If this is disputed, its still the end of Trump's term.  And then the fun begins.  Would there be a compromise to extend until the matter goes to court?  Almost impossible.  The Dems would never agree to waive that part of the Constitution.  The issue would be who, in a dispute, becomes President.  Right now, it would be Pelosi.  The GOP would argue that its actually the highest ranking member of the admin (Sec of State).

Its hard to believe congress would go along with it.  

It aint gonna happen.  But it also demonstrates why the Dems dont just want to win a narrow victory. It needs to be overwhelming.  And remember, most of Congress hates Trump.  They're just stuck with him.  Him trying a coup wont fly with them either.

EDIT: Just to circle back around, one of the demands made by the Dems to support Hayes was the right to deal with black citizens in their southern states without interference from the North.  So, probably not the best example to hold up to favour the Dems over the GOP.

Edited by The Unknown Poster
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2 hours ago, Tracker said:

To re-iterate: there is literally nothing that Trump can do that will cause his slavering followers in the GOP and electorate that will cause them to abandon him. 

This. I have given up hoping that there is a proverbial straw that will break the camel's back. That camel has the strongest freaking back I have ever seen. It would be admirable if it wasn't so gross.

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26 minutes ago, Tiny759 said:

So until there are no other democratic candidates, Obama then comes to endorse him. To me it seems like an non genuine endorsement.

https://time.com/5577983/obama-not-endorse-biden-president/

Quote

A source familiar with Obama’s thinking said that he’s not planning to endorse anyone during the early stages of the primary process, in part because he believes that his experience battling for the 2008 nomination made him a better candidate and president. Obama, then the sitting president, waited until voting in the 2016 primaries had ended before endorsing Hillary Clinton.

 

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2 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Well thats not entirely accurate.  It was the election of 1876 between Hayes & Tilden.  Grant was the Incumbent.   There were allegations of voter fraud on both sides.  Hayes won the electoral college by 1.  To settle the controversy, Congress formed an Electoral Commission. made up of 5 members from each house and five members from the Supreme Court.

This resulted in 5 Republicans, 5 Democrats.  They chose 2 Justices from each side.  The Democrats then tried to buy off the deciding Justice by having the Illinois legislature elect David Davis (who both sides had agreed on as the 5th representative from the Supreme Court) to the US Senate.  The Dems assumed Davis would side with them as a result.  Instead, he resigned from the Supreme Court to take the Senate seat.  All the remaining Justices were Republican so the commission agreed on the one deemed least partial.

Each disputed state submitted their cases, arguments were heard from both sides.  The commission decided that Hayes had won by 1 electoral college vote.  There was no issue when Hayes was inaugurated two days later.

Its important to note that at the time, the Democrats were the party that was seen as racist and lobbied for concessions for their Southern States.

The Democrats accepted Hayes due to a compromise that pulled the feds out of the south as well as a number of other concessions.

So its a poor example in context.  Its probably better to look at Bush v Gore to see how any dispute would be handled today, which would be lawsuits up to the Supreme Court.  There is no mechanism for Trump to refuse to leave office and simply remain President unless he simply abolished the Congress, ripped up the Constitution and somehow had the backing of the military to do so.

If he delays the election, or there is some prolonged dispute, by the constitution, this term expires on inauguration day.  The power to direct the Secret Service, armed forces etc would no longer be his.  The powers would reside with the winner (presumably Biden) who would obviously have Trump removed.  Realistically, Biden, if he won, would be President on inauguration day even if Trump barricaded himself in the White House.

If the election results were contested, Trump could lean on Congress not to tally the votes.  That could only really happen if the GOP won both houses.  And again, if you dispute the results, how can you accept the congressional votes?  He could order Pence not to cooperate with the tallying of votes.  He could launch lawsuits.

But on inauguration day, Trump ceases to be President and the new President begins to serve.  If this is disputed, its still the end of Trump's term.  And then the fun begins.  Would there be a compromise to extend until the matter goes to court?  Almost impossible.  The Dems would never agree to waive that part of the Constitution.  The issue would be who, in a dispute, becomes President.  Right now, it would be Pelosi.  The GOP would argue that its actually the highest ranking member of the admin (Sec of State).

Its hard to believe congress would go along with it.  

It aint gonna happen.  But it also demonstrates why the Dems dont just want to win a narrow victory. It needs to be overwhelming.  And remember, most of Congress hates Trump.  They're just stuck with him.  Him trying a coup wont fly with them either.

EDIT: Just to circle back around, one of the demands made by the Dems to support Hayes was the right to deal with black citizens in their southern states without interference from the North.  So, probably not the best example to hold up to favour the Dems over the GOP.

Trump and the GOP have demonstrated repeatedly that they care nothing for either the law or the constitution  and have simply ignored any legal restriction they find inconvenient. Trump has hinted broadly that his supporters might use violence if he is unseated and he has already stated that there were many millions of illegal voters, even though his own inquiry found nothing. He has maintained that even afterwards. 

Edited by Tracker
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1 minute ago, Tracker said:

Trump and the GOP have demonstrated repeatedly that they care nothing for either the law or the constitution  and have simply ignored any legal restriction they find inconvenient. Trump has hinted broadly that his supporters might use violence if he is unseated and he has already stated that there were many millions of illegal voters, even though his own inquiry found nothing, and he has maintained that even afterwards. 

That doesnt matter.  He can't will the constitution away.  And if he loses, he is no longer the President on inauguration day.  Biden will be.  The military, the secret service, the DOJ etc, would all answer to him.  The only thing that changes that is a military backed coup.  Not going to happen.  They can argue (or launch law suits) over the finer details, but it wont happen.  And the alt right are cowards anyway.  If there was a military uprising it would be to support the rule of law and constitution, not to ignore it.

I agree Trump loses and will start saying stupid crap.  And there likely will be violence from his cowardly base.  It wont go anywhere.  

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1 minute ago, The Unknown Poster said:

That doesnt matter.  He can't will the constitution away.  And if he loses, he is no longer the President on inauguration day.  Biden will be.  The military, the secret service, the DOJ etc, would all answer to him.  The only thing that changes that is a military backed coup.  Not going to happen.  They can argue (or launch law suits) over the finer details, but it wont happen.  And the alt right are cowards anyway.  If there was a military uprising it would be to support the rule of law and constitution, not to ignore it.

I agree Trump loses and will start saying stupid crap.  And there likely will be violence from his cowardly base.  It wont go anywhere.  

I disagree. Within the past 48 hours Trump has stated that Article 2 allows him to act unilaterally without the approval of Congress and/or the Senate and/or the Judiciary and/or the states. He has surrounded himself with sycophants who will execute his dictates even if illegal, and have done so already. The American public for the most part and especially the GOP-controlled senate have conceded their responsibility and authority to Trump. 

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5 minutes ago, Tracker said:

I disagree. Within the past 48 hours Trump has stated that Article 2 allows him to act unilaterally without the approval of Congress and/or the Senate and/or the Judiciary and/or the states. He has surrounded himself with sycophants who will execute his dictates even if illegal, and have done so already. The American public for the most part and especially the GOP-controlled senate have conceded their responsibility and authority to Trump. 

...and these GOP Senators are either too stupid or too supine, to understand what Trump has been doing for 3 years....chipping away at the powers of the Legislative Branch....

Edited by do or die
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3 minutes ago, Tracker said:

I disagree. Within the past 48 hours Trump has stated that Article 2 allows him to act unilaterally without the approval of Congress and/or the Senate and/or the Judiciary and/or the states. He has surrounded himself with sycophants who will execute his dictates even if illegal, and have done so already. The American public for the most part and especially the GOP-controlled senate have conceded their responsibility and authority to Trump. 

I simply dont believe a raving lunatic will convince the Secret Service and the Armed Forces to follow his orders when he's no longer president.  He wouldnt be dictating in a vaccum either.  Congress would be against him (unless the Dems lose the House).  Many states and their governments would be against him.  Every living President would be against him.  He can cheat and he can lie and he can shout into the abyss.  But he can't declare himself emperor and get away with it.

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