Goalie Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 They are all crooks.... So the only thing for sure here is... Don't believe a dang word any of them say. I also think Trump is guilty and its pretty obvious. His 1 tweet basically says hes obstructing justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 8 minutes ago, pigseye said: The documents were to be turned over to the House Judiciary and Oversight committees, The Justice Department this weekend also announced the designation of a sitting US attorney to oversee the process. Why is this concerning to you? If nothing else regarding Trump concerns you and if you want Mueller removed, why is this so concerning? Doesn't it seem like a wildly partisan perspective on your part? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigseye Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said: Why is this concerning to you? If nothing else regarding Trump concerns you and if you want Mueller removed, why is this so concerning? Doesn't it seem like a wildly partisan perspective on your part? No one is above the law, not the POTUS, not FBI, not the DOJ, they are supposed to all be working for the people, instead they play internal mind games with each other, it's a dog and pony show and needs to stop, drain the swamp. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 Just now, pigseye said: No one is above the law, not the POTUS, not FBI, not the DOJ, they are supposed to all be working for the people, instead they play internal mind games with each other, it's a dog and pony show and needs to stop, drain the swamp. lol. Sure but I mean, everyone is discussing Trump's bad acts and you express that the Meuller investigation is off the rails and start pushing this Nunes thing. Its like being totally against jaywalking but having no issue with assault. And let's be honest, Nunes doesnt care about the letter of the law. He wants an unredacted copy of the FBI report because he wants to find a reason, no matter how small, to call it into question. The report was about Trump lackey Papadopulous mouthing off about dirt on Clinton that triggered the FBI probe into Russia meddling. The Trumpologists first tried to say the investigation was triggered by the Steel dossier so they could discredit that dossier and claim it was a Democrat plot. Unfortunately the report that led to the Steel Dossier was started as opposition research by other GOP members. And many things in the Steel Dossier have been found to be true. So even if the investigation WAS triggered by the Steel dossier, it was warranted. As it is, the FBI's report indicates it was Trump's own man that triggered it. And its moot anyway as every top intelligence official has stated that Russia absolutely meddled in the election. Nunes is trying to blow smoke to create cover. Its like getting a speeding ticket for actually speeding and then claiming the cop didnt put a dot over an "i" so how can we believe anything...Its nonsense. And finally, none of that has anything to do with Mueller or his investigation which, as you know, was triggered by Trump's firing of Comey in an effort to stop the FBI from investigating his ties to Russia. And if Nunes is so concerned about people snubbing congress, when is he going to go after the witnesses that refused to answer questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 Rosenstein: Republican Mueller: Republican Comey; Republican yup, those nasty dems are out to get him! blue_gold_84 and Mark F 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
do or die Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 To be fair.....in TrumpWorld......the Department of Justice, Attorney General, FBI, and all the other legal or intelligence agencies.....are all expected to work diligently.....to advance the interests of, and to protect..... HIM. Kinda the root of the problem here. But then again, egomaniacs and narcissists, much like tinpot dictators, all all stripes......tend to think that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigseye Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 1 hour ago, The Unknown Poster said: Sure but I mean, everyone is discussing Trump's bad acts and you express that the Meuller investigation is off the rails and start pushing this Nunes thing. Its like being totally against jaywalking but having no issue with assault. And let's be honest, Nunes doesnt care about the letter of the law. He wants an unredacted copy of the FBI report because he wants to find a reason, no matter how small, to call it into question. The report was about Trump lackey Papadopulous mouthing off about dirt on Clinton that triggered the FBI probe into Russia meddling. The Trumpologists first tried to say the investigation was triggered by the Steel dossier so they could discredit that dossier and claim it was a Democrat plot. Unfortunately the report that led to the Steel Dossier was started as opposition research by other GOP members. And many things in the Steel Dossier have been found to be true. So even if the investigation WAS triggered by the Steel dossier, it was warranted. As it is, the FBI's report indicates it was Trump's own man that triggered it. And its moot anyway as every top intelligence official has stated that Russia absolutely meddled in the election. Nunes is trying to blow smoke to create cover. Its like getting a speeding ticket for actually speeding and then claiming the cop didnt put a dot over an "i" so how can we believe anything...Its nonsense. And finally, none of that has anything to do with Mueller or his investigation which, as you know, was triggered by Trump's firing of Comey in an effort to stop the FBI from investigating his ties to Russia. And if Nunes is so concerned about people snubbing congress, when is he going to go after the witnesses that refused to answer questions? That is where you and I differ on this. There better have been reliable evidence in that 2016 counterintelligence report to warrant the Russia investigation and collusion with the Trump campaign. That is what the investigation is to determine, not if the Russians interferred, we already know they did, but whether or not the Trump campaign conspired with a foreign power to effect the outcome of the election. If there isn't, then Trump is going to come out smelling like a rose and the FBI and DOJ are going to lose all credibility. It's a sobering thought to think that Trump might have been telling the truth all along and that the 'system' is really that corrupted by partisan politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 Goalie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardCoreBlue Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 3 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said: Under DOJ regulation, only the AG or, in this case Rosenstein, can dismiss Mueller for cause. Trump could either replace Sessions with someone who would not be recused who could then fire Mueller though that would be dangerous because it would appear to be an end run around Rosenstein. Trump could order Rosenstein to fire Mueller but he's unlikely to comply (he signed the warrant that raided Cohen). So Rosenstein would either then be fired or resign. By DOJ succession, the 3rd in command resigned in February so she's not there. 4th in line (name escapes me now) would then be tasked with firing Mueller per Trump's orders or refusing. Its the Saturday Night Massacre (read up on that). Nixon did the same thing. Ordered his AG to fire the special counsel. I think it took the 3rd person up before they carried out Nixon's order and it was so repugnant to American's, it made Watergate the most pressing issue of the day. It was a huge mistake by Nixon. But, like Trump, he felt the heat. The issue seems to be, everyone is telling Trump to let the investigation conclude on its own but Trump knows the problem with that is, he's guilty. There is no other explanation. He's acting like a very, very guilty man. If Trump ignores DOJ regulation and tries to fire Mueller himself, its possible Mueller would simply refuse to leave and ask Rosenstein for a decision. Likely, Rosenstein would back Mueller. At that point Trump would have to back down or, more likely (since he would know Mueller and Rosenstein would probably not just leave), he'd end up firing Rosenstein and looking for someone willing to remove Mueller. That alone doesnt end things for Trump. Congress could simply create their own special investigation and hire Mueller who would effectively never miss a beat but would have a whole lot more ammunition to come after Trump for obstruction. Here's how Chris Cillizza from CNN put it: Remember that Rosenstein is, according to the federal code, the only person who can fire Mueller. While Trump appears to have concluded this isn't accurate and that he, too, has the ability to fire Mueller himself, doing so would undoubtedly set up a massive legal fight (in addition to a political one). What if Trump fires Rosenstein and replaces his as deputy attorney general with someone who is more amenable to the idea of getting rid of Mueller? That would kill two birds with one stone -- get rid of the pesky Rosenstein and put someone in his stead who would get rid of Mueller! Add it all up and it becomes pretty clear that Rosenstein has to be the favorite to get fired this week. And a pretty heavy favorite at that. The Unknown Poster 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark F Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 6 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said: Add it all up and it becomes pretty clear that Rosenstein has to be the favorite to get fired this week. And a pretty heavy favorite at that. right after he nukes Syria. Dangerous times in this world, with Trump holding the nuclear code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacquie Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 and Trump's response: "Smart" probably means they won't do any damage unlike the last strikes by the dumb ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigseye Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 So which ones the anti-Christ? Maybe both, would explain their collusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacquie Posted April 12, 2018 Report Share Posted April 12, 2018 Here’s a random tweet that has part of the Order that named Meuller as special counsel and set out the parameters of his investigation: The text in the red boxes shows it was never just about collusion. The Unknown Poster 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted April 12, 2018 Report Share Posted April 12, 2018 20 hours ago, pigseye said: That is where you and I differ on this. There better have been reliable evidence in that 2016 counterintelligence report to warrant the Russia investigation and collusion with the Trump campaign. That is what the investigation is to determine, not if the Russians interferred, we already know they did, but whether or not the Trump campaign conspired with a foreign power to effect the outcome of the election. If there isn't, then Trump is going to come out smelling like a rose and the FBI and DOJ are going to lose all credibility. It's a sobering thought to think that Trump might have been telling the truth all along and that the 'system' is really that corrupted by partisan politics. Certainly, if the DOJ launched an investigation into Trump's ties with Russia they should have probable cause. But there is no reason to assume there is shadiness there. We, the general public, know so little of the actual evidence and yet we can easily see a prima facie case. The only legitimate claims of FBI shadiness were out of the New York office where trump pal Rudy G had major influence and that shadiness was to Trump's benefit. Comey, a Republican, was so determined to be above board on everything he ended up sinking Clinton's campaign. Mueller was appointed in response to Comey's firing. So even if the DOJ came out and said "we can't connect Trump to Russia meddling" it doesnt impact Mueller because he's still investigating obstruction. Trump himself admitted he fired Comey to end the FBI investigation. He's admitted this week to wanting to "keep down" Mueller. He's demanded loyalty oaths from people, he's asked who people voted for when they were up for position. If Trump fires Rosenstein it almost has to be to try and replace him with someone who will fire or handcuff Mueller. But imagine Trump "interviews" replacements and asks them if they'd fire Mueller, finds someone who says they would, fires Rosenstein and replaces him with that person... that's obstruction. Im not even sure he *can* do that or if Rosenstein must be replaced by the DOJ chain of command. I think we can agree that we can envision a scenario where Trump is dirty. Regardless of Russia, he might have issues with fraud, money laundering, or even worse things which have been speculated. He knows what he might be guilty of and if he is, then winning the election was the worst thing for him. I dont think Mueller's investigation is likely to lead to Trump's removal as President (unless 1) he resigns to try and fend of deeper investigations 2) something big, like human trafficking services). Because even if the Dems win the House, they could very likely impeach Trump but the Senate wont convict him (barring something so distasteful it turns the GOP on him). But crimes that might get him convicted outside of the Presidency are his real threat. The raid on Comey is a major deal. And likely has little to do with Stormy Daniels. The US Attorney (it was not Mueller that conducted the raid) felt strongly enough about evidence presented to him that he'd raid an attorney and take items that fall under privilege. That's a big deal. And likely they are looking for evidence of a pattern of paying hush money but more likely any discussion related to wikileaks. Allan Dershowitz met with Trump this week and then went on CNN and expressed grave concerns over info Cohen had that could be "very embarrassing". Ultimately, no one should be subjected to a witch hunt. But no one can legitimately say this seems like that. If Trump committed no crimes, he has nothing to worry about. But he sure acts worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCon Posted April 12, 2018 Report Share Posted April 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said: But crimes that might get him convicted outside of the Presidency are his real threat. They got Capone on tax evasion. It's not the obvious crimes that will take down Trump. The Unknown Poster 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted April 12, 2018 Report Share Posted April 12, 2018 Just now, JCon said: They got Capone on tax evasion. It's not the obvious crimes that will take down Trump. And I think the reason his people do not want him being questioned under oath is because he will surely lie and then he's toast. Clinton was impeached for lying. There is lots of speculation about Trump's business dealings and he himself said any investigation into his business was a "red line". Which is also a red flag. But he has nearly 20 accusations of harassment/assault including a girl who claimed he raped her when she was 13. We know Cohen and others gladly paid off women who had affairs with him, its not a stretch to suggest there are even more salacious or illegal stories. The New Yorker just did a story about the Inquirer doing a catch & kill about a Trump affair/child from the 80's. They found no evidence the story was true, but the Inquirer still paid a guy $30,000 to bury the story. JCon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacquie Posted April 12, 2018 Report Share Posted April 12, 2018 JCon and The Unknown Poster 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goalie Posted April 13, 2018 Report Share Posted April 13, 2018 Trump is so innocent hes about to fire RR. Yup, thats what innocent people do. The Unknown Poster 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted April 13, 2018 Report Share Posted April 13, 2018 This is trumps say is telling potential witnesses he will pardon them. But what struck me is he basically admits he knows nothing. He “heard” Scooter was treated unfairly. I would hope he’d want to know more details before issuing pardons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigseye Posted April 13, 2018 Report Share Posted April 13, 2018 On 4/12/2018 at 9:13 AM, The Unknown Poster said: I think we can agree that we can envision a scenario where Trump is dirty. Regardless of Russia, he might have issues with fraud, money laundering, or even worse things which have been speculated. He knows what he might be guilty of and if he is, then winning the election was the worst thing for him. I dont think Mueller's investigation is likely to lead to Trump's removal as President (unless 1) he resigns to try and fend of deeper investigations 2) something big, like human trafficking services). Because even if the Dems win the House, they could very likely impeach Trump but the Senate wont convict him (barring something so distasteful it turns the GOP on him). There is absolutely no question Trump is dirty of something but it won't be Russian collusion. Let's not forget, Trump was not the Republicans first pick for president, he came out of nowhere and they ended up getting stuck with him. There is no loyalty between the Republicans and Trump and I think they would be quite happy to impeach him and put one of their good old boys in his place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardCoreBlue Posted April 13, 2018 Report Share Posted April 13, 2018 1. "This President is unethical, and untethered to truth and institutional values. His leadership is transactional, ego driven and about personal loyalty." James Comey Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigseye Posted April 13, 2018 Report Share Posted April 13, 2018 Mr Comey says he believes Mr Trump's hair was his own and his much-mocked hands did not seem unusually small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardCoreBlue Posted April 13, 2018 Report Share Posted April 13, 2018 1 minute ago, pigseye said: Mr Comey says he believes Mr Trump's hair was his own and his much-mocked hands did not seem unusually small. And this was the nicest thing he said about Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigseye Posted April 13, 2018 Report Share Posted April 13, 2018 Comey's going to make a mint off that book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted April 13, 2018 Report Share Posted April 13, 2018 He’s losing his mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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