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I think the only chance to replace both and have a chance to be competitive just evaporated with ott getting dinwiddie. Firing both is rebuild mode not just this off season but next year. I think the best move is to replace one and do a strong re tool in the off season. I believe walters is the easiest to replace competently, but that mos is a larger piece of the problem. I also don’t expect either to go any where unless they decide to go. Toronto may well lure mos away. I don’t think we will make an active decision. I think what we do will be reactionary. Any one who seriously tables keeping hogan on as oc should be immediately escorted out by security. Id be interested in the young guys up front of the als organization for gm, for hc man that’s hard.

Arbuckle in 15 games was 365/504 with 4370 yards and 26/15 In Kellys MOP season in 18 games he was 270/394 for 4123 yards and 23/12 Only real difference between the two stats wise is Team wins and Kelly also ran the short offense and has a bit more mobility. There really wasn't much of a drop off between Kelly and Arbuckle

Your mom! Sorry, I am in a mood today.

I would say the only two relative newbie head coaches in waiting at this time in the whole league are Noel Thorpe and Jarious Jackson. Big issue with Thorpe is that he has a short shelf life with his players. Not fatal on D but he doesn't tend to last long and nor do his players. Hard to run an organization like that since you have to maintain relations with a QB at least and your star Canadian players. You would also need to build a great offensive coaching staff around him. Not sure he's capable of that, and if he has the pull to bring in some of the guys that would be that, great OC, strong receiver/RB coach and QB coach. Jackson will want to control offense which always diverts a coach from running the whole team. He did ok in Edmonton. Takes a great coach to balance all of that. Marc Mueller will get lots of hype too. He's kept the Riders O competitive usually with major OL issues, QB issues. Developed a great receiving corps as positional coach in two places, OC. Young guy with limited reach though who will have a tough time building out a staff. It's really tough to build a staff now. A good friend and colleague of mine who has coached at every level in this country including CFL guest coach has been in demand from CFL teams as a positional coach but they offer him half of what he makes as a schoolteacher. So it's been a hard no. Coaches can make more in a real job or doing private work with prospects than they can make as a CFL assistant. You have to be really willing to work to build up that resume making no money to be a head coach where you can actually make some money. Not great for any potential CFL coaches with families and bills to pay.

Well 2001 was a long time ago, age catches up to everyone...

Even if they decided the best course of action is to maintain the status quo? I agree that they have probably earned the right to try to correct things but at the same time, this wasn't an overnight event either. They've let the team veer off course for a couple seasons now and if the best they can come up with is to keep doing the same things that got them here, then I no longer feel they have that right.

Khari Jones is too busy booking ads for boner and heart meds.

Without their starting QB all season. How do you think any other team does in that situation?

Argos missed the playoffs dude.

So our answers are a guy who isn't available and an imaginary coach with no name. lol. My buddies have had this discussion but based on Walters/MOS leaving on their own. GM - Danny Mac HC - Younger These are not my choices, just actual examples lol. My choices are the guys in the roles currently. IMO they've earned the right to attempt to right the ship.

I would have said Dinwiddie as Head Coach and not sure on GM.

Coach who plays no favorites....Utilizes the best players available to him, as well as the rules afforded to him, and won't play hurt players.....A coach where you need to earn your starter spot AND maintain said spot with your play....or you get replaced...That's my coach

For those who want MOS and Walters gone, who would you want as their replacements?

Ooooh it's here at last https://youtu.be/723RZxnDWKE?si=uFxBUOwqLSGiOsek

yeah...Its a what have you done lately business to...The first few seasons were not good...we wrangled 2 cups...wedged between 4 failures now....and each year the degradation got worse from lack of any effort to stop it, but just relied on the past....so good will has long dried up All good coaches have an expiry...and really a lot of the credit heaped on Osh west soley just him....I certainly agree he was a huge part....but the culture..and everything about it was a collective effort...and Osh was chosen after meetings with Miller and Walter's to carry out where they wanted to go an he sold himself to them that he was the man and shared same vision....That is lost in all of this....Osh didnt create and bring in some super secret fancy new ideology here....it was basic football business to be successful....from a place where we had become totally inept and lost

I agree with what you're saying but those same qualities that make him a great coach to play for are the very same qualities that can destroy the culture they've built if he's not mindful / refuses to adapt.

Oh, I'm fine with MOS back if he fires Hogan and gets a real OC and he starts saying bye bye to the aging vets. I get frustrated by him but appreciate the 9 straight 10+win seasons, 2 cup wins etc. Honestly a little worried about who we would replace him with. Yeah so basically I just want Miller to kick MOS and KW in the ass, light a fire and then improvements.

7th all time in wins, the most wins of any active HC. It's ridiculous to speak as if his entire tenure was a failure. A few seasons ago, it was all about the culture, and how we were retaining players because of O'Shea. And that players were signing for less because of O'Shea. If changes were made I'd be good with that, but the posts from people who were heaping praise about the culture a few years ago, are mind-numbing.

Through all this discussion about our lazy GM Walters, Osh leaving for Toronto (please go), firing Hogan or maybe losing Brady if we don't, Zach's unhappiness, Younger & his Cheetos no pass rush defense, Walters not doing enough this past off season, Osh roster management issues.... All I want is a change. The room has gone stale. It stinks. We need Wade Miller to go in & open the window wide to let a fresh breeze in. As a fan, I want change. Meaningful & serious change. I don't care if that means head rolls & we don't renew the contracts of Walters & O'Shea. After 12 freaking years, the team has to do something to shake it up. I don't want to watch my team decline further while we have a GM mail it in another off season. While players & coaches who should be gone get special treatment & undeservedly stick around for another season. After 12 going on 13 seasons, I don't think as a fan that I can take anymore of this **** because I know it'll just get worse.

That's the system the DC designed. The lack of a pass rush is on Younger. That's why our D is all linebackers & dbs. They got lit up last Saturday. Another year of Osh means more of the same. More Younger. More Cheetos.

His berta look may not fly in the big smoke. Might need a makeover.

If we continue on this path it'll lead to us falling off a cliff. I foresee terrible times ahead.

That's why you need a competent OC... someone like JJ.

The RedBlacks went deep & signed Dinwiddie. They're serious & all in about winning. How serious are we???

Yep. Imo if you brought in khari he’d be a position coach and support Jackson who’d be the oc. You could have both work with qbs, and khari also coach wrs while being offensive assistant. Qbs are underrated as wr coaches. They’re much better at helping wrs and qbs build chemistry and understand what the qb is looking for. Khari was also one of the last qbs to call his own plays, is much better coaching rpos and btl screen packages. Though I do worry if khari would be the worst guy to put with zach. Two guys who just wanna chuck bombs lol