Arguments?

Marve's strength is rolling to his right and throwing.  I haven't seen him do anything else well in terms of passing.  When that's taken away, he's lost.  And it's very easy to take away.  That looping end or LB from the opposite side of the formation does it quite easily.  If he can't make a throw from the pocket, he's useless in this league.  One dimensional players can't play this game, it's just too easy to defend them.  It's just going to get worse if he can't start to make some throws as teams will be hugging the line of scrimmage and taking away the run game entirely as well.

 

My hope is that they move on relatively quickly if Marve doesn't show RAPID improvement the next couple weeks.  There's an opportunity here to actually develop someone to be our backup, don't waste it on a guy who can't play at all.

Marve has to learn to set his feet, to throw down the field......and his reads have to be much better.  But what was with all the dropbacks?  Marshall getting 4 touches in the first half?  Simpson was spying Marve all day - no calls to take advantage of that.....

The offensive package we put in for Marve was beyond useless.....with a start already under his belt, and two weeks to prepare.   

As far as Brohm goes (and that is preferably far away), why this organization wastes any more time with that guy is a mystery.  

 

We have to go with Marve, to see if he can accomplish something.....with Brohm, we already know that he will accomplish nothing.

 

You take advantage of that by making throws from the pocket.  At times Calgary had two backers spying/coming on delayed blitzes.  That means there's a bunch of space in the middle of the field and deep when Calgary was having their safety fill in behind the backers.  There were one on ones deep all day, Calgary had no respect for Marve's arm, and he gave them no reason to respect it.  Until he can, there's not much you can call to make him look good, maybe some option runs.

One guy was hyping Marve as a savior who could take Willy's job. Everyone else said Marve is a option better than Brohm, which is still true. 

 

If you force a running QB to change their game to become a pocket passer, you're going to see a lousy pocket passer because that's not what got them to the pro level. They have very little if any experience or pocket presence because that's not what they've done all their lives.  If it was what they were good at, they'd already be pocket passers.

 

Marve was horrible when he tried to run MB's offense against Calgary. MB needs to change the offense to fit Marves strengths instead of the other way around. That's probably the only route to success with Marve as QB this year and there are no guarantees that will work anyway.

 

A lot of the problems have to do with expectations. Folks want Marve to have touch with receivers he's only been throwing to for about a week? They want him to be able to throw deep from the pocket when he only gets 2 or 3 deep shots called all game? They want him to stay in the pocket and go through his reads and run when it's there but not too soon while the O line provides him with 2-3 seconds. Not realistic.

 

I'd much rather have Willy at QB, but that's not happening right now and it may not be possible this year. I think Marve is our second best choice. I know he's green and that he's a scrambler not a pocket passer. I know that his accuracy leaves a lot to be desired and that's the top quality I look for in a good QB. I'm hoping they change the offence to allow Marve to do what he does best and that practice will help him get in sync with his receivers. I'm well aware that it may not do any good but it's our only chance IMO.

Good points and it bugs me that they aren't being addressed. Does Mike O'Shea not realize these things? I get that he was a defense and STs guy but what is he thinking when he sees our offense struggle? I'd love to know.

 

For the record, I like Mike O'Shea and I like some of the things he does with our team. I think he is a good man that was put in a very tough spot way before he was ready. That's on Walters. I also think he is trying his best and is leaning on the qualities that have served him well in his life so far: pride, loyalty, and determination. He has those qualities in spades and they made him a good man and very good player.

 

But it is going to take more than that to be a very good or great HC. He is going to need humility, intelligence, and sharp knife to cut the throats of his friends if it will benefit his football team. I think MOS needs to do what is best for the team and make a tough decision regarding MB now. I know my respect for him will grow immensely if he does.

 

Marve has to learn to set his feet, to throw down the field......and his reads have to be much better.  But what was with all the dropbacks?  Marshall getting 4 touches in the first half?  Simpson was spying Marve all day - no calls to take advantage of that.....

The offensive package we put in for Marve was beyond useless.....with a start already under his belt, and two weeks to prepare.   

As far as Brohm goes (and that is preferably far away), why this organization wastes any more time with that guy is a mystery.  

 

We have to go with Marve, to see if he can accomplish something.....with Brohm, we already know that he will accomplish nothing.

 

You take advantage of that by making throws from the pocket.  At times Calgary had two backers spying/coming on delayed blitzes.  That means there's a bunch of space in the middle of the field and deep when Calgary was having their safety fill in behind the backers.  There were one on ones deep all day, Calgary had no respect for Marve's arm, and he gave them no reason to respect it.  Until he can, there's not much you can call to make him look good, maybe some option runs.

 

I may be wrong here, but to me it looked like Marve was told to stay in the pocket, and as a result he held onto the ball too long several times. If you're supposed to stay in the pocket, but get no time to throw or find second and third reads because the Oline is the shi...ts, then it stands to reason you are not going to look good. I couldn't believe the line on several of the plays, they looked awful. Our so called great signing from Calgary is not earning his $$. So who is that on? him alone or the blocking schemes? Probably a bit of both.

 

Seems to me with our Oline, doesn't matter who the QB is...they are all not going to accomplish what they should, which is why we were still last in offence even with Willy healthy. Of course he looks better because he has a lot more experience, but if nothing changes, we will always be last in offence.

 

 

Marve has to learn to set his feet, to throw down the field......and his reads have to be much better.  But what was with all the dropbacks?  Marshall getting 4 touches in the first half?  Simpson was spying Marve all day - no calls to take advantage of that.....

The offensive package we put in for Marve was beyond useless.....with a start already under his belt, and two weeks to prepare.   

As far as Brohm goes (and that is preferably far away), why this organization wastes any more time with that guy is a mystery.  

 

We have to go with Marve, to see if he can accomplish something.....with Brohm, we already know that he will accomplish nothing.

 

You take advantage of that by making throws from the pocket.  At times Calgary had two backers spying/coming on delayed blitzes.  That means there's a bunch of space in the middle of the field and deep when Calgary was having their safety fill in behind the backers.  There were one on ones deep all day, Calgary had no respect for Marve's arm, and he gave them no reason to respect it.  Until he can, there's not much you can call to make him look good, maybe some option runs.

 

I may be wrong here, but to me it looked like Marve was told to stay in the pocket, and as a result he held onto the ball too long several times. If you're supposed to stay in the pocket, but get no time to throw or find second and third reads because the Oline is the shi...ts, then it stands to reason you are not going to look good. I couldn't believe the line on several of the plays, they looked awful. Our so called great signing from Calgary is not earning his $$. So who is that on? him alone or the blocking schemes? Probably a bit of both.

 

Seems to me with our Oline, doesn't matter who the QB is...they are all not going to accomplish what they should, which is why we were still last in offence even with Willy healthy. Of course he looks better because he has a lot more experience, but if nothing changes, we will always be last in offence.

 

 

He couldn't leave the pocket because of how Calgary's defense played him.  As soon as he tried he had at least one linebacker running full speed at him from 3 yards depth.  Calgary's ends also worked fully from the outside lane in to Marve, no inside pass rush moves, just disciplined and gradual work towards the QB pinning him in the pocket allowing that spying LB to clean up, other than the one time Bryant fell asleep before the snap and the one end ran right around the edge.  

 

That's why I spent two months telling you guys that a scrambling QB is the easiest type to defend if they can't do anything from the pocket.  It's extremely easy to force a QB to stay in the pocket and very hard to counter that if that QB can't make a throw.  Now you're seeing it.

 

We're not last in offense with Willy.  We're last in offense with everyone, Willy's only started and finished 4 games.  Marve and Brohm have thrown 112 passes now to 156 for Willy.

Marve was "officially" sacked 5 times against Calgary. Twice, Marve got happy feet and strayed from the protection of the pocket...and promptly got sacked. Once by his own happy feet. Marve has to get that ball out over the middle, fast and with accuracy. It is up to MB to give him this opportunity.

Marve will not get to his third read...

 

 

 

Marve has to learn to set his feet, to throw down the field......and his reads have to be much better.  But what was with all the dropbacks?  Marshall getting 4 touches in the first half?  Simpson was spying Marve all day - no calls to take advantage of that.....

The offensive package we put in for Marve was beyond useless.....with a start already under his belt, and two weeks to prepare.   

As far as Brohm goes (and that is preferably far away), why this organization wastes any more time with that guy is a mystery.  

 

We have to go with Marve, to see if he can accomplish something.....with Brohm, we already know that he will accomplish nothing.

 

You take advantage of that by making throws from the pocket.  At times Calgary had two backers spying/coming on delayed blitzes.  That means there's a bunch of space in the middle of the field and deep when Calgary was having their safety fill in behind the backers.  There were one on ones deep all day, Calgary had no respect for Marve's arm, and he gave them no reason to respect it.  Until he can, there's not much you can call to make him look good, maybe some option runs.

 

I may be wrong here, but to me it looked like Marve was told to stay in the pocket, and as a result he held onto the ball too long several times. If you're supposed to stay in the pocket, but get no time to throw or find second and third reads because the Oline is the shi...ts, then it stands to reason you are not going to look good. I couldn't believe the line on several of the plays, they looked awful. Our so called great signing from Calgary is not earning his $$. So who is that on? him alone or the blocking schemes? Probably a bit of both.

 

Seems to me with our Oline, doesn't matter who the QB is...they are all not going to accomplish what they should, which is why we were still last in offence even with Willy healthy. Of course he looks better because he has a lot more experience, but if nothing changes, we will always be last in offence.

 

 

He couldn't leave the pocket because of how Calgary's defense played him.  As soon as he tried he had at least one linebacker running full speed at him from 3 yards depth.  Calgary's ends also worked fully from the outside lane in to Marve, no inside pass rush moves, just disciplined and gradual work towards the QB pinning him in the pocket allowing that spying LB to clean up, other than the one time Bryant fell asleep before the snap and the one end ran right around the edge.  

 

That's why I spent two months telling you guys that a scrambling QB is the easiest type to defend if they can't do anything from the pocket.  It's extremely easy to force a QB to stay in the pocket and very hard to counter that if that QB can't make a throw.  Now you're seeing it.

 

We're not last in offense with Willy.  We're last in offense with everyone, Willy's only started and finished 4 games.  Marve and Brohm have thrown 112 passes now to 156 for Willy.

 

 

Willy was seriously injured 3 times playing out of that pocket.  What future does any QB have standing back there?

Can't defend a QB who can't throw the ball more than 7 yards with accuracy. Can't defend a QB who only looks for 2 guys. Can't defend a QB who throws the ball in to double coverage constantly when he does go deep. Marve isn't good and I don't think any sort of play calling could help him to be honest. MB sucks but Marve sucked even more. Ya 2 games isn't enough but it's enough to say he's not ready and might never be

There were those of us who said that a qb who can't pass from the pocket is the easiest thing in the world for CFL defences to defend and that's exactly what Calgary did. They played the entire thing saying to Marve "OK beat us with your arm" and you know what? It was a spectacular failure on the part of Marve. Yes he can run, yes he's exciting, but it's still the CFL, if as a quarterback you can't pass then what good are you? He needs to be better. If he could connect on some deep balls he'd have a much easier time because he'd be a hell of a lot harder to defend, but he's been brutal on the long throws. Like worse than Nealon Greene brutal and I used to mock that guy relentlessly for being unable to throw past 10 yards down field. 

Can't defend a QB who can't throw the ball more than 7 yards with accuracy. Can't defend a QB who only looks for 2 guys. Can't defend a QB who throws the ball in to double coverage constantly when he does go deep. Marve isn't good and I don't think any sort of play calling could help him to be honest. MB sucks but Marve sucked even more. Ya 2 games isn't enough but it's enough to say he's not ready and might never be

Well looks like your going to get your wish MOS leaning towards Brohm to start. Not sure if I should laugh or cry.

He's just giving Marve a chance to watch a bit from the sideline before he goes in

 

Can't defend a QB who can't throw the ball more than 7 yards with accuracy. Can't defend a QB who only looks for 2 guys. Can't defend a QB who throws the ball in to double coverage constantly when he does go deep. Marve isn't good and I don't think any sort of play calling could help him to be honest. MB sucks but Marve sucked even more. Ya 2 games isn't enough but it's enough to say he's not ready and might never be

Well looks like your going to get your wish MOS leaning towards Brohm to start. Not sure if I should laugh or cry.

 

If Brohm starts, I am going to do something I have never done in 40+ years- not watch the game. A start by Brohm would be a clear signal that we are undeniably hooped for the rest of the year.

Hey, if Brohm starts I think we can say there'll be a coaching change after the season.

Riders have released Tino Sunseri......as we continue to forge ahead....

 

Could you imagine if Walters signed Sunseri because he's experienced?

Dare to dream.....

My Gawd... I wouldn't put it past Walters to do it we're so desperate.

Marve has shown no ability so far to operate at the speed the CFL requires.

 

He spends WAY too long making his primary read.

This compounds, because it forces him to rush into the next read.

This compounds, because when he's rushed, he goes into survival mode.

This compounds, because when he goes into survival mode, he resorts to his comfort zone which is to freelance and run around.

 

Not to mention he throws the deep ball like he's throwing 50/50 jackpot balls on the schoolyard, he makes way too many poor decisions to throw across his body and he's inaccurate as hell.

Yet he's still far better than Brohm. That might be the scariest part about all of this.

He throws a better ball than Brohm.....when he is not frozen in the headlights....

Brohm just needs a full week of starter reps. I believe OShea cause when has he been wrong before?

 

Marve has shown no ability so far to operate at the speed the CFL requires.

 

He spends WAY too long making his primary read.

This compounds, because it forces him to rush into the next read.

This compounds, because when he's rushed, he goes into survival mode.

This compounds, because when he goes into survival mode, he resorts to his comfort zone which is to freelance and run around.

 

Not to mention he throws the deep ball like he's throwing 50/50 jackpot balls on the schoolyard, he makes way too many poor decisions to throw across his body and he's inaccurate as hell.

Yet he's still far better than Brohm. That might be the scariest part about all of this.

 

 

Brohm isn't a solution to any of our problems, but him and Marve are two sides of the same shitty coin.

He throws a better ball than Brohm.....when he is not frozen in the headlights....

 

You've seen it?  I haven't.  They both leave a lot to be desired arm-wise.

I meant it is occasionally catchable...

14 for 23 194 yards in 2 1/2 quarters of play. - before injury.

Brohm.

Vs. Calgary - last Oct.

That's 300 yards in a full game.

I wonder...

 

 

Marve has shown no ability so far to operate at the speed the CFL requires.

 

He spends WAY too long making his primary read.

This compounds, because it forces him to rush into the next read.

This compounds, because when he's rushed, he goes into survival mode.

This compounds, because when he goes into survival mode, he resorts to his comfort zone which is to freelance and run around.

 

Not to mention he throws the deep ball like he's throwing 50/50 jackpot balls on the schoolyard, he makes way too many poor decisions to throw across his body and he's inaccurate as hell.

Yet he's still far better than Brohm. That might be the scariest part about all of this.

 

 

Brohm isn't a solution to any of our problems, but him and Marve are two sides of the same shitty coin.

 

Why is Brohm still on the team? Can not Nichols or Davis hold the snaps on field goals and converts? Nothing personal I have against him, but he has no future with this team, does he?