Winnipeg Outdoor Heritage Classic game could be postponed

[The Unknown Poster]

Miller also wanted the NHL to pay half the cost of the extra seating. Which doesn't make much sense to me.

Why should the Bombers pay the entire amount if they were going to be used by the NHL too.

Why should the NHL pay half the cost for something the bombers are using twice and using regardless of the NHL game?

[The Unknown Poster]

Bombers will make very little. Not sure why the NHL couldn't pay for the extra seating when they are the ones taking in all the revenue. Heritage classic nice but seems the local team and stadium lose out lots

The NHL should pay for seating the cfl team is putting in for the banjo bowl and grey cup? Huh? The NHL isn't a charity.

[Rich]

 

 

Miller also wanted the NHL to pay half the cost of the extra seating. Which doesn't make much sense to me.

Why should the Bombers pay the entire amount if they were going to be used by the NHL too.

Why should the NHL pay half the cost for something the bombers are using twice and using regardless of the NHL game?

 

 

Why should the NHL profit on an extra 8000 seats that wouldn't otherwise be there?  

 

There is a cost to keeping those seats longer, they are rented.   The cost share would be a fraction of what those seats would bring in with ticket sales and concession sales.

 

This was negotiated as part of the "deal".  The NHL saw a benefit and was fine with this part of the deal.  The contentious part was the dates.

 

When you rent a venue, isn't the price often based on its size.  This was the cost of renting a 41k seat venue as compared to 33k. Also, the original plan was for the game to be played in February.  An extra 2 - 3 months of keeping the seats.

[The Unknown Poster]

You're missing the point. Seats used for three games. NHL pays half? Is that new math? How about NHL pays 1/3?

[Rich]

Remember the Bombers were pushing or under the impression to have the event in February.

 

Banjo Bowl is in September, Grey Cup in November.  September to November is 3 months.

 

Now extend that out to February.  That means having the seats in place for 6 months.   Doubling the time the seats would have to be rented.  Therefore the cost is split half.

 

I don't know how rental agreements work on those seats, but I can't imagine it is by the event, since those seats could be used elsewhere if they weren't up at IGF.

 

If the outdoor classic was to be in December, sure maybe the cost would be less.  But that was a deal breaker for the Bombers, so that wouldn't have been the terms they were negotiating under.

[The Unknown Poster]

Well we really have no idea if that's the case. We don't know the details on renting the seats. If the cost was prohibitive they would take them down for those three months and re install them in February. I'm not sure how in demand temporary stadium seating is in the middle of winter.

[mbrg]

Well we really have no idea if that's the case. We don't know the details on renting the seats. If the cost was prohibitive they would take them down for those three months and re install them in February. I'm not sure how in demand temporary stadium seating is in the middle of winter.

 

Thread in February #1: "Workers continue to die trying to install scaffolding 200 feet off the ground in icy conditions."

 

Thread in February #2: "Costs for scaffolding installation skyrocket as 100's of extra workers hired and progress slowed in -40 weather, may not be complete in time for game, all due to trying to install scaffolding in February."

 

Response from public:  "Why are the Bombers so dumb as to take down the scaffolding and put it back up 3 months later?"

 

"Something something Jets awesome Bombers dumb something something"

[mbrg]

Remember the Bombers were pushing or under the impression to have the event in February.

 

Banjo Bowl is in September, Grey Cup in November.  September to November is 3 months.

 

Now extend that out to February.  That means having the seats in place for 6 months.   Doubling the time the seats would have to be rented.  Therefore the cost is split half.

 

I don't know how rental agreements work on those seats, but I can't imagine it is by the event, since those seats could be used elsewhere if they weren't up at IGF.

 

If the outdoor classic was to be in December, sure maybe the cost would be less.  But that was a deal breaker for the Bombers, so that wouldn't have been the terms they were negotiating under.

 

The cost argument may not be related to the scaffolding at all, or that may only be part of it.

 

I never considered what happens to the stadium in the offseason, but it sounds like the entire place is shuttered with the exception of the store, offices and locker rooms.  Which makes complete sense.  So that would probably include blowing out all the plumbing lines in the stadium, which is a massive undertaking, but has to be done.  It sounds like a big part of that cost is literally going to be heating the stadium for 3 months so the lines don't freeze, which for a massive outdoor structure in Manitoba would be incredibly expensive.

[17to85]

This is great that Miller isn't going to let the NHL push him around. I've been to a Grey Cup, I've been to an out door hockey game, there is no contest which one is the better event, but a lot of Jets hype right now I don't doubt there's a lot of people in Winnipeg when forced to choose between the CFL and NHL would jump on the hype train.Good for Miller, good for the Bombers and good for the CFL. 

[The Unknown Poster]

I have no issue with the idea that there is a cost involved to keeping IGF available for the outdoor game.  I assume that wasnt a situation discussed at the end of negotiations as an aside.  So lets presume everyone involved is pretty smart.  And lets accept as fact given past comments from Miller, Chipman and reported by Lawless that all parties were in agreement on holding the game.  The issue is not money per se or the separation of monies unless someone is trying to change the deal at the end.

 

They all agreed to do this.  They likely agreed to who would get what and who would pay what.  However, it sounds like the NHL wanted to save on the costs of keeping IGF open (or open it for the game) by doing the game earlier in the season, which makes sense.  From a marketing stand point it also makes sense to me.  You end up with basically a "season" of big events from the Banjo Bowl right through to the outdoor game.  I have no doubt both games would sell out.

 

I think Miller thinks he's doing whats best for the Bombers but I cant shake the feeling he's also big leaguing a bit.  Im sure in the past when it came to True North relations with the Bombers that Chipman etc had the run of the place and Miller is flexing his muscle.  It hurts the fans though not to a great extent since we will still get the game.  Though Im sure it annoys both the Jets and the NHL.

 

Frankly, I am surprised they are considering anything other than November or March (and I thought late Feb/Early March was the most likely time).

 

If the NHL uses the excuse that they dont it too close to the All Star game, then they cant be upset if Miller says he doesnt want it too close to the Grey Cup.  But both excuses are sort of missing the bigger picture I think.

[Rich]

I have no issue with the idea that there is a cost involved to keeping IGF available for the outdoor game.  I assume that wasnt a situation discussed at the end of negotiations as an aside.  So lets presume everyone involved is pretty smart.  And lets accept as fact given past comments from Miller, Chipman and reported by Lawless that all parties were in agreement on holding the game.  The issue is not money per se or the separation of monies unless someone is trying to change the deal at the end.

 

They all agreed to do this.  They likely agreed to who would get what and who would pay what.  However, it sounds like the NHL wanted to save on the costs of keeping IGF open (or open it for the game) by doing the game earlier in the season, which makes sense.  From a marketing stand point it also makes sense to me.  You end up with basically a "season" of big events from the Banjo Bowl right through to the outdoor game.  I have no doubt both games would sell out.

 

I think Miller thinks he's doing whats best for the Bombers but I cant shake the feeling he's also big leaguing a bit.  Im sure in the past when it came to True North relations with the Bombers that Chipman etc had the run of the place and Miller is flexing his muscle.  It hurts the fans though not to a great extent since we will still get the game.  Though Im sure it annoys both the Jets and the NHL.

 

Frankly, I am surprised they are considering anything other than November or March (and I thought late Feb/Early March was the most likely time).

 

If the NHL uses the excuse that they dont it too close to the All Star game, then they cant be upset if Miller says he doesnt want it too close to the Grey Cup.  But both excuses are sort of missing the bigger picture I think.

 

 

From an NHL perspective, I can see them not wanting to do this in March because it would cost an extra $500k - $1M (depending what reports you want to believe) to keep IGF open that long.   That is an extra $500k - $1M in your pocket if you do it earlier in the year.

 

From a Bomber perspective, I can understand them being worried about ticket sales.  Not sure I agree with it entirely myself, but can the Bombers really can't afford the risk of a screw up on the Grey Cup.

 

This whole kerfuffle proves that most of the sports fan in this city has the Jets  #1 and everything else after that, so there may be some just cause for their concern.   They get this event once a decade, and this has to be a cash cow to sustain them.   They can’t mess up this Grey Cup.  (Despite the Twitter outrage, I highly doubt the “delaying” of the classic will cause people to boycott the Bombers or Grey Cup, at least not in material numbers)

 

Lawless made a good point last night, that ALL organizations dropped the ball on this.  That a marketing strategy where the option to buy both a Grey Cup ticket and Outdoor Classic ticket as a package would have been a great sell. 

 

However, this would have had to been negotiated months ago as the Bomber Season ticket renewals (which include buying Grey Cup tickets) went out in the fall after the season was over.  The CFL would also have to be involved and approve the co-marketing of the event.   This doesn’t seem to work for the NHL because they weren’t in a position to announce the Winter Classics at that time.  Who knows if this was delayed due to the Bomber negotiations or other stadium negotiations, or simply the NHL’s time frame on when they make these announcements.

 

The fans seem to be making more of this then there really is.  Reports from Lawless (who is very connected to both organizations) has said that there is no animosity between the Bombers, the Jets, and the NHL in this.  No one has left the table in a huff.  They tried to negotiate this event, and they couldn’t find a solution that worked for all parties involved.  This isn’t about Wade trying to flex his muscles with the big boys.  This is about 3 different organizations, with different priorities and interests, wanting what is best for them and the only solution that all could agree to was delaying for a year.

 

The NHL loves these classics, and Winnipeg is a prime location to host one due to interest the fan base here would have in selling it out.  This will happen, just not this year.

[Atomic]

Lawless also said he's worried about the possibility that the game may just never happen now... as he said, "A bird in hand is worth two in the bush."  Winnipeg and the Jets want the Classic here a lot more than the NHL does.  If it is too much hassle, they will just play it somewhere else.

[17to85]

Lawless also said he's worried about the possibility that the game may just never happen now... as he said, "A bird in hand is worth two in the bush."  Winnipeg and the Jets want the Classic here a lot more than the NHL does.  If it is too much hassle, they will just play it somewhere else.

Don't be ridiculous, the NHL loves these outdoor games because it lets them bring in a big whack of cash from more asses in seats and more marketing and all that fun stuff. That's why they've done so many of them to the point where no one really cares about them anymore. They'll do one in Winnipeg, Bettman and the Jets just have to wait until the time is right. The Grey Cup is too important to the host CFL team to put the profits from it at risk.

[SPuDS]

Lawless also said he's worried about the possibility that the game may just never happen now... as he said, "A bird in hand is worth two in the bush."  Winnipeg and the Jets want the Classic here a lot more than the NHL does.  If it is too much hassle, they will just play it somewhere else.

Don't be ridiculous, the NHL loves these outdoor games because it lets them bring in a big whack of cash from more asses in seats and more marketing and all that fun stuff. That's why they've done so many of them to the point where no one really cares about them anymore. They'll do one in Winnipeg, Bettman and the Jets just have to wait until the time is right. The Grey Cup is too important to the host CFL team to put the profits from it at risk.

Yea I wouldn't read too much into atomics slant on lawless's tweet. He really believes the bombers are out to get the jets on this for some reason.. It will happen.. Most likely next year even.. NHL would be real dumb to not try and get one into hockey-mad Winnipeg next season.. It's definitely not a situation of "this year or never!"

[iso_55]

Doesn't the NHL owe us an All Star game or was it the NHL Draft as we were scheduled to host one of those in 1997 as I recall. Instead the Jets 1.0 moved to Phoenix?

[bigg jay]

It was the draft we missed out on.  I would say they owe us an All-Star game one year as well  though since we are one of only 3 teams to not host one yet (Coyotes & Ducks are the others).

[mbrg]

It was the draft we missed out on.  I would say they owe us an All-Star game one year as well  though since we are one of only 3 teams to not host one yet (Coyotes & Ducks are the others).

 

Problem is the all-star game has gotten so big over the years - I'm not sure the Royal Albert Arms has enough rooms to host all the dignitaries that would come to town.

[The Unknown Poster]

I dont think we will miss out on getting the out door game.  I think Chipman and Bettman are too close for that.  But I also would not discount anything Lawless alludes to as regardless of how fat or bald he is, he is very connected.

[comedygeek]

 

It was the draft we missed out on.  I would say they owe us an All-Star game one year as well  though since we are one of only 3 teams to not host one yet (Coyotes & Ducks are the others).

 

Problem is the all-star game has gotten so big over the years - I'm not sure the Royal Albert Arms has enough rooms to host all the dignitaries that would come to town.

 

That's cute that you think the Albert is still open after 64 tries to make it work.

[Noeller]

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/football/bombers/Blue-bombers-Not-our-fault-no-Heritage-Class-in-Winnipeg-289687431.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

Blue bombers: Not our fault no Heritage Classic in Winnipeg

By: Ed Tait

COLUMBUS — The Winnipeg Blue Bombers are weary of wearing the goat horns for the postponement of the Heritage Classic that was planned at Investors Group Field next winter.

Bomber president and CEO Wade Miller took exception to NHL commissioner Gary Bettman’s suggestion Saturday here at the All-Star Weekend’s festivities that the game has been delayed because the football club wouldn’t make the stadium available in December.

Bettman, in announcing a slate of three outdoor games in Boston (Canadiens vs. Bruins) on New Year’s Day, in Minnesota (Wild vs. Chicago) on Feb. 21 and Denver (Avalanche vs. Detroit) on Feb. 27, did say the league hoped to play a fourth game in Winnipeg but the three parties — including, obviously, the Jets — couldn’t agree on a date.

Since the postponement became official last week, the Bombers have been taking flak for not making the stadium available in December — a date that was too close to the 2015 Grey Cup game to be held at IGF on Nov. 29th.

"It’s unfortunate the commissioner of the NHL may not have all the facts with regards to the Heritage Classic in Winnipeg," said Bombers President Wade Miller. "All three parties had agreed on the date in February. Within the last two weeks, we were told that didn’t work for the NHL.

"There was a date in January that didn’t work for True North and a date in December that didn’t work for the Bombers. We look forward to hosting the game next year or the year after."

Bettman did promise as much in his address Saturday.

"We had hoped to have a fourth outdoor game in 2015-16 season, a Heritage Classic in Winnipeg," he said. "We were unable to agree with the Blue Bombers on a date that would make each comfortable. Hopefully we can schedule something for the following season. There are no firm plans to announce other than it’s something we’d like to do because we very much wanted an outdoor game next season in Winnipeg."

Jets governor Mark Chipman, meanwhile, said Saturday he was disappointed, but they completely understand the Bombers position on not wanting a Heritage Classic game in December and so close to the Grey Cup.

The good news for the Bombers, Jets and the NHL is this: the initially proposed game for Winnipeg in February 2016 may still happen in the same calendar year with a possible Heritage Classic in December of next year.

ed.tait@freepress.mb.ca

 

[The Unknown Poster]

Wade miller seems like a bit of a ****. I like that he takes exception to what Bettman said and then confirms what Bettman said was completely correct. He's out of his league.

[Mr Dee]

Separate your personal opinion of Wade Miller and consider what he has to take care of in this situation…and that is the Winnipeg Football Club.

Consider the fact, that for the last couple of years, the date being considered was to be in February - not December.

Do you think that the fact the Bombers hosting the Grey Cup, only weeks prior to this outdoor game, creates a shred of concern to Bettman?

Not a chance.

 

The "above everybody" attitude that Bettman exudes, is nauseating.

His arrogance in his update of the Heritage game is a perfect example.

 

He states “I was disappointed (the Blue Bombers) wouldn't make the stadium available to us. That's really what it comes down to,”  “We wanted to play the game in December and we were told we couldn't have the stadium. That was disappointing."

 

"Wouldn't make the stadium available?" How about "it wasn't a negotiable date"?

 

Only a dwirp would phrase it like that. 

If it doesn't suit the NHL…it just doesn't suit…period.

 

Miller, out of his league? I should hope so, but not for the reasons you think.

[Jacquie]

Once again the NHL gives preferential treatment to the US teams. Why couldn't one of the Wild or  Avalanche games be played at a different time so Winnipeg could keep the February date. 

[SPuDS]

Also to note.. What was the January date that true north shot down and why?

[Jacquie]

Also to note.. What was the January date that true north shot down and why?

 

I don't know if they had a specific date but I read they didn't want January because traditionally it's cold as hell in January.