Seeing if we can get a thread going without the error (sorry @WinnipegGordo )

Go Bombers!

18 hours ago, rebusrankin said:

An all-star team? I see Kenny Lawler (who wanted more than we were willing to give him). Ford (wanted to play with his brother) and that's it. Dobson-Very good.

Hardrick? That's 4 guys who are or have been all stars since they left here. How many all stars did we have on our roster last year? i'd say 4 more would have been a vast improvement. Think of what our line might look like right now if we have Dobson and Yoshi, what our receiver corps looks like anchored by Lawler, having Ford in our secondary. Massive losses and that's just the losses from the past couple years. KW has a history of letting guys hit the road that predates all 4 of them.

18 hours ago, 17to85 said:

GMs and coaches always work together... That is kind of the sign of a healthy environment. If the GM is always in there getting in the coaches business that's not great either. Honestly I think you're wrong on how dire the talent situation on the team is. It's not as stacked as it was during our grey Cup run for sure (you'll also recall that they did things the hard way grinding out close games that could have gone either way) but there's enough talent to comfortably be a playoff team.

I think it's very easy to build a case that the coaches have had a problem getting the most out of the group they have but with a stacked and deep roster it doesn't matter .

Good coaching isn't about winning with a loaded roster, it's about winning despite holes

We have MOS for the next 2 years for sure and nothing we complain about changes that. Therefore, we can wish for a different style of coaching but we aren't getting it. KW needs to step up his game in order to offset that. Might not be fair, but ultimately it's his job.

16 hours ago, Booch said:

We had our success when we loaded up with established FA guys in prime for most part. Not from our coach discovering and recognizing new talent brought in and that put us over...nope.

If a anything the fleeting success was inspite of a less than optimal roster assembled and now over past 3..4 yrs where we ran established vets into ground and well past their best before dates..the whole while the coach didnt let guys develop and get reps puts us where we are now...weak as a whole and prob the shallowest in league in terms of depth and legit stars

People can yeah but all they want about what..who was brought in..so and so wasn't picked up from us..nobody on pr or was deemed a backup has shown anything (tho guys who actually got on did)and blame it on recruiting and scouting but when you have a hc who can't recognize talent for talent not his "intangibles" continually hampers his roster..refuses to use rules to bolster roster and has limited capacity for the x and o aspect and ability to he himself fix things either in game or in prep..or see where/when to step in, well it doesn't matter who Walters and Co. bring in

History here has shown us when u look at his yrs here in segments that Osh excels when he is provided a heavily laden vet (in prime) roster who self police and almost coach themselves...when that evaporates...or isnt there like his first 4yrs...well he looks much like he does now and sadly is..an arrogant guy who nary has a clue and gets upset when asked about it but can't accept accountability

Your last statement echoes what I was saying...100 percent

So if a fan can spot the recipe for success in how KW needs to build his roster....why can't KW. Just saying. If MOS is not great with young guys, take them out of the equation and go back to what worked. What won championships. It's not a hard concept. Build a team to the strengths of your coach, not to his weaknesses. I'm not trying to excuse MOS for his shortcomings, they are apparent and real, but when provided a certain type of roster he has proven he can succeed. Go back to that.

We both know that MOS isn't going anywhere. He's locked in. Therefore, quit trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Somewhere along the line KW decided that we were going to let talent walk and replace through recruitment. We see now that this was a colossal mistake.

Edited October 2Oct 2 by GCn20

8 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Hardrick? That's 4 guys who are or have been all stars since they left here. How many all stars did we have on our roster last year? i'd say 4 more would have been a vast improvement. Think of what our line might look like right now if we have Dobson and Yoshi, what our receiver corps looks like anchored by Lawler, having Ford in our secondary. Massive losses and that's just the losses from the past couple years. KW has a history of letting guys hit the road that predates all 4 of them.

We have MOS for the next 2 years for sure and nothing we complain about changes that. Therefore, we can wish for a different style of coaching but we aren't getting it. KW needs to step up his game in order to offset that. Might not be fair, but ultimately it's his job.

Not necessarily - we have never used our one-time exemption so we can fire MOS (or KW) at any point without penalty.

18 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

So if a fan can spot the recipe for success in how KW needs to build his roster....why can't KW. Just saying. If MOS is not great with young guys, take them out of the equation and go back to what worked. What won championships. It's not a hard concept. Build a team to the strengths of your coach, not to his weaknesses. I'm not trying to excuse MOS for his shortcomings, they are apparent and real, but when provided a certain type of roster he has proven he can succeed. Go back to that.

We both know that MOS isn't going anywhere. He's locked in. Therefore, quit trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Somewhere along the line KW decided that we were going to let talent walk and replace through recruitment. We see now that this was a colossal mistake.

We not tied...he can be canned if we choose to. The narrative "we cant" is just false.

There is one out a team can use..we havnt...plus if he is punted we only on hook for salary if he not hired elsewhere. And if hes as good as many claim one would think he'd be snapped up immediately...no? So no worries there

I also not arguing.. we have layered issues for sure...hc and gm from my experience in a solid organization work in tandem..doesn't appear both on same page here.. If a HC relays what he wants..or doesn't want for that matter a gm isnt gonna force feed things against what the coach is requesting. Thats dysfunction at highest level. He hired the coach so "should" trust in his judgment..That being said the scouts should also bring in best possible talent regardless of current roster starters..ratio deployment etc..and the best players when camp dust settles play..or are kept...now is that happening here on both sides of equation? Hard to say...but its easy to see a lot of the issues hampering us..poor allocation of players on game day roster at times..on the PR...the use of as just one example the marine wasting a da spot any number of canadians we had could have managed...Da's this yr added who took zero snaps..playing guys hurt...not demoting guys for poor play...not using the nationilzed rule cause the hc doesn't like it..using 3 canadians at WR where 2 have done absolutely nothing when we didnt have to..and based on last several games there been times we had 3 imports with only 2 canadian recievers so proves we only declaring 5 nationals on offence anyway...and dumb in game decisions and zero half time adjustments to adapt to game flow...that is all at one person's feet...therein makes sense that to avoid a total purge because if u can the gm..or gm and hc thats where u are headed...take small bites...isolate an issue...adress it..re-evalute that following season..if same issues are there...then u purge

29 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

Not necessarily - we have never used our one-time exemption so we can fire MOS (or KW) at any point without penalty.

You seriously think that's happening?

29 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

Not necessarily - we have never used our one-time exemption so we can fire MOS (or KW) at any point without penalty.

Yup..took words right outta my mouth as I was making my post..we ain't tied to him by any means...if we miss playoffs this yr..which is a real possibility still..after the hoopla of our big FA signings...he should be canned right after the season ends. That will be 5 yrs in a row of regression...

2 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

You seriously think that's happening?

Why not? Good organizations make the tough decisions...if we have a new coach next yr do u think we will become the redblacks? I dont...I bet if we had made the switch this yr we be better than we currently are...The players here woukdnt revolt and stop playing...but I guarantee many would play better and with more urgency knowing the country club atmosphere of if u a vet or a guy here 2+ yrs u are safe regardless how much u suck or loaf...thats a certainty

So it's been 30 years....time to give Reinebold another shot? Anyone?? Anyone???

30 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

Not necessarily - we have never used our one-time exemption so we can fire MOS (or KW) at any point without penalty.

We can use the exemp

48 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

Not necessarily - we have never used our one-time exemption so we can fire MOS (or KW) at any point without penalty.

The one time exemption does not exist anymore that I can see. It was only in existence the first 2 years of the ops cap so that it covered existing contracts that were signed prior to the ops cap coming into effect is what I've gathered from various media articles so far. I can't seem to find it in any of the league rules of CBA either. There is a provision for prorating the remaining salary over the next 5 seasons but still counting against the ops cap. That still would be a significant hit to our ops cap as MOS has a lot of term. So, I suppose we could fire him but his replacement would have to agree to HC for far below market rate. Or we could pinch pennies elsewhere on the coaching and ops side to make up for MOS's cap hit. Neither present a very good alternative and would be very questionable if it would even constitute an upgrade after all is said and done. Hogan for HC maybe?

If Younger or Condell are on 2 year contracts, as is the norm for coordinators now, our next HC would be stuck with them as well.

Edited October 2Oct 2 by GCn20

24 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

You seriously think that's happening?

Do I think it's likely? Not in the least but it's an option the club has so it's not an absolute certainty like you're claiming it is.

24 minutes ago, Booch said:

Yup..took words right outta my mouth as I was making my post..we ain't tied to him by any means...if we miss playoffs this yr..which is a real possibility still..after the hoopla of our big FA signings...he should be canned right after the season ends. That will be 5 yrs in a row of regression...

Why not? Good organizations make the tough decisions...if we have a new coach next yr do u think we will become the redblacks? I dont...I bet if we had made the switch this yr we be better than we currently are...The players here woukdnt revolt and stop playing...but I guarantee many would play better and with more urgency knowing the country club atmosphere of if u a vet or a guy here 2+ yrs u are safe regardless how much u suck or loaf...thats a certainty

I am not arguing that we shouldn't or can't fire him, but I will steadfastly argue all day long that we won't. No chance unless we clean house.

8 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

We can use the exemp

The one time exemption does not exist anymore that I can see. It was only in existence the first 2 years of the ops cap so that it covered existing contracts that were signed prior to the ops cap coming into effect is what I've gathered from various media articles so far. I can't seem to find it in any of the league rules of CBA either. There is a provision for prorating the remaining salary over the next 5 seasons but still counting against the ops cap. That still would be a significant hit to our ops cap as MOS has a lot of term. So, I suppose we could fire him but his replacement would have to agree to HC for far below market rate. Or we could pinch pennies elsewhere on the coaching and ops side to make up for MOS's cap hit. Neither present a very good alternative and would be very questionable if it would even constitute an upgrade after all is said and done. Hogan for HC maybe?

If Younger or Condell are on 2 year contracts, as is the norm for coordinators now, our next HC would be stuck with them as well.

Coaches cap came in in 2019 so it would have been gone after 2021 if it was only in place for 2 seasons. 3DN says it was still in place as of 2024 and there was even potential to add a 2nd exemption.

Teams get one “freebie” — a firing that doesn’t count against the cap — though that’s hardly sufficient if a team needs to clean house. The league has reportedly considered adding a second one, though a spokesperson didn’t confirm when asked for clarification.

3DownNation

How long each CFL head coach, GM is under contract (sort...

The contract lengths of CFL coaches and personnel people used to be irrelevant. If someone was fired, teams faced no ramifications beyond paying out the remaining value of their deal. Aside from a few

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

Think of what our line might look like right now if we have Dobson and Yoshi

Probably not much different since Broxton is hardly a nobody at RT and Dobson didn't play centre here either.... We'd still have old man stan at LT with whatever random centre osh decided he liked... So is Dobson better at guard than Wallace? Hard to say.

Would Ford look good in the secondary? Sure, but not like the guys they're using NOW are bad. Major Williams has been a major find.

As for Lawler, obviously he would be good, but that's still just one guy cause if they kept Lawler then white probably isn't here and we still have the problem on dressing too many non-factor Canadians on offense.

Just now, bigg jay said:

Do I think it's likely? Not in the least but it's an option the club has so it's not an absolute certainty like you're claiming it is.

1 minute ago, bigg jay said:

Do I think it's likely? Not in the least but it's an option the club has so it's not an absolute certainty like you're claiming it is.

Certainty that he remains. You are right it's not 100%...imo it's 95%. I just don't see it happening but if it does it would be the right move so long as it is a total houseclean. Don't think either is happening with this much term left.

12 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Probably not much different since Broxton is hardly a nobody at RT and Dobson didn't play centre here either.... We'd still have old man stan at LT with whatever random centre osh decided he liked... So is Dobson better at guard than Wallace? Hard to say.

Would Ford look good in the secondary? Sure, but not like the guys they're using NOW are bad. Major Williams has been a major find.

As for Lawler, obviously he would be good, but that's still just one guy cause if they kept Lawler then white probably isn't here and we still have the problem on dressing too many non-factor Canadians on offense.

Dobson is 100x better at OG than Wallace who quite frankly needs to go and one never knows if we move him to Centre but even if we don't he represents a massive upgrade. Broxton is likely either not signed and we use the money elsewhere to strengthen, or is signed at LT and we make the hard decision on the GOAT. If it is the latter our OL is pretty damn good. Ford is an allstar calibre NAT db. Not even going to discuss how valuable he would be. C'mon....And Lawler is a ton better than White but having Ford in the secondary would allow us to have both. You can't reasonably sit there and tell me that our high end talent drain has been addressed.

42 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

Coaches cap came in in 2019 so it would have been gone after 2021 if it was only in place for 2 seasons. 3DN says it was still in place as of 2024 and there was even potential to add a 2nd exemption.

3DownNation

How long each CFL head coach, GM is under contract (sort...

The contract lengths of CFL coaches and personnel people used to be irrelevant. If someone was fired, teams faced no ramifications beyond paying out the remaining value of their deal. Aside from a few

Thanks for finding that. Changes my opinion quite a bit.

Edited October 2Oct 2 by GCn20

Lawler is better at making the hard catches. But white has been more consistent over the years. So I'm not sure "far better" is right. But...in this offense with Collaros, Lawler would likely be a better fit.

1 minute ago, Bigblue204 said:

Lawler is better at making the hard catches. But white has been more consistent over the years. So I'm not sure "far better" is right. But...in this offense with Collaros, Lawler would likely be a better fit.

FAAAR more impactful receiver than White. Not knocking White but Lawler not only put up gawdy numbers of his own, he also allows all the other receivers to get gawdy numbers as well due to simply his presence and impact on opposing defences playcalls and gameplans.

Yoshi was what 230,000? Ford was the same. Lawler was at least 275,000 and can't recall Dobson's deal but it was large. Keep those guys and you have to subtract, so let's say Broxton, Ceresna and White to start.

We don't need Ford to change the ratio, we already use more Canadians than needed.

You're looking at things in a vacuum. Don't forget there is a cost to retaining all those high priced guys too.

I'm not mad about losing guys in free agency. Every team loses critical players.

The issue is that we don't even TRY new guys out and declining vets are given zero competition. Guys like Singer ONLY get a chance if injuries occur. I don't follow the league as tightly as I used to, but when I watch other teams play they always have a large amount of guys I've never heard of before in the line up. Some work out, some don't but at least they rotate and continously try to improve the roster.

I refuse to believe that they absolutely can't find guys willing to come up and play in Winnipeg.

6 hours ago, rebusrankin said:

I mean on the football side, the sellouts, a successful Grey Cup (on the business side), their work around Orange Shirt Day, the Rum Hut and the Flag Football clinics in schools with Alexander were all really good work. Hard to fault Miller.

Except that he renewed contracts for Walters and O'Shea despite 2-3 years of downward spiral that was not corrected.

42 minutes ago, Brandon said:

I'm not mad about losing guys in free agency. Every team loses critical players.

The issue is that we don't even TRY new guys out and declining vets are given zero competition. Guys like Singer ONLY get a chance if injuries occur. I don't follow the league as tightly as I used to, but when I watch other teams play they always have a large amount of guys I've never heard of before in the line up. Some work out, some don't but at least they rotate and continously try to improve the roster.

I refuse to believe that they absolutely can't find guys willing to come up and play in Winnipeg.

If you look at how inactive we are, compared to other teams, when it comes to scouting guys and adding them to the neg list, I don't think it's a matter of player not want to come, and more that they just aren't even being given a chance. There is definitely a vibe of "we're happy with who we have so that's who we're rolling with". Every other team is far more active in looking for/bringing in new talent and it's maddening watching other teams actively trying to get better while we stand pat, for the most part.

There's a social media account that track neg list movement and they have a really helpful website where you can see what every team is doing. They recent added a feature that gives a bit of a scouting profile on players so you can kind of get an idea of who might be in the pipeline or what kind of player we're looking for.

https://cfl-negotiation-list.fyi/

5 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

Lawler is better at making the hard catches. But white has been more consistent over the years. So I'm not sure "far better" is right. But...in this offense with Collaros, Lawler would likely be a better fit.

Tim white has the best ability, and the biggest one Lawler has lacked here. Availability.

That said, white is a FA at the end of the year. Pending a large over pay, I would struggle to see him wanting to stay here.

1 hour ago, Brandon said:

I'm not mad about losing guys in free agency. Every team loses critical players.

The issue is that we don't even TRY new guys out and declining vets are given zero competition. Guys like Singer ONLY get a chance if injuries occur. I don't follow the league as tightly as I used to, but when I watch other teams play they always have a large amount of guys I've never heard of before in the line up. Some work out, some don't but at least they rotate and continously try to improve the roster.

I refuse to believe that they absolutely can't find guys willing to come up and play in Winnipeg.

Nailed it.

53 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Tim white has the best ability, and the biggest one Lawler has lacked here. Availability.

That said, white is a FA at the end of the year. Pending a large over pay, I would struggle to see him wanting to stay here.

Nailed it.

The CFL isn't the NHL where a bunch of spolied little rich kids on skates refuse to play somewhere because it's too cold. Try living in Phoenix from May to October if you like the heat instead. People can't go outside after 11 am as the temp is already 120 degrees F. Burning their hands on the steering wheel or legs on the leather seats. Don't touch any metal on your SUV getting in to drive. Activities go only go early morning or evening...

Edited October 2Oct 2 by SpeedFlex27

On 2026-09-26 at 10:25 PM, SpeedFlex27 said:

We'll never win another Grey Cup with Osh or Walters. We won't even be close. Pretty soon it'll be a decade between wins. We should have cleaned house when we had the chance.

A decade? It's been

On 2026-10-01 at 1:39 PM, rebusrankin said:

An all-star team? I see Kenny Lawler (who wanted more than we were willing to give him). Ford (wanted to play with his brother) and that's it. Dobson-Very good.

We didn't even want Lawler back, Walters chose Shoen instead. We offered that Mitchell guy a contract before Lawer, so of course he got offended and took it personally.

5 hours ago, Brandon said:

I'm not mad about losing guys in free agency. Every team loses critical players.

The issue is that we don't even TRY new guys out and declining vets are given zero competition. Guys like Singer ONLY get a chance if injuries occur. I don't follow the league as tightly as I used to, but when I watch other teams play they always have a large amount of guys I've never heard of before in the line up. Some work out, some don't but at least they rotate and continously try to improve the roster.

I refuse to believe that they absolutely can't find guys willing to come up and play in Winnipeg.

We don't develop guys on the fly nor do we elevate guys over poor play guys..we only change because and if forced to by injury..bad player management to the 109th degree

Also...we dont allow for legit TC competition or allow a player to outright win a spot..ever

Too many positions cemented before first snap of TC regardless of what transpires in camp

3 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

The CFL isn't the NHL where a bunch of spolied little rich kids on skates refuse to play somewhere because it's too cold. Try living in Phoenix from May to October if you like the heat instead. People can't go outside after 11 am as the temp is already 120 degrees F. Burning their hands on the steering wheel or legs on the leather seats. Don't touch any metal on your SUV getting in to drive. Activities go only go early morning or evening...

Football sees its soft and foolish reasons for missing games. Not much of lawlers time missed was caused by accident.

Football has a tendency to make great athletes wilt. Be it with physicality, exhaustion, or extreme weather conditions. The hardest one to deal with is the one you see the least.

For me, the hardest game i ever played in was driving rain on a muddy grass field. The conditions broke every one that day. no one celebrated winning, every one celebrated surviving the game. Obviously this was far from the cfl level, but every player has a breaking point and a weakness.

1 hour ago, Booch said:

We don't develop guys on the fly nor do we elevate guys over poor play guys..we only change because and if forced to by injury..bad player management to the 109th degree

Also...we dont allow for legit TC competition or allow a player to outright win a spot..ever

Too many positions cemented before first snap of TC regardless of what transpires in camp

We basically hope guys develop them self. Mos always talks about how guys experience the game slowing down in year 2, and how it helps them take a step forward. He never talks about how they try and help guys slow the perception down and play smooth.

No competition really at any point for the roster. We don’t see the return of guys scrapping in mid week practices any more. but if guys had to fight for their spot and could win a role, it would raise the level of play across the board.