Winnipeg Blue Bombers @ Hamilton Tiger-Cats GDT

[Booch]

56 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Seems fairly obvious that the last 2 seasons they are using Willie far less in the pass rush and taking advantage of his knock down ability and ability to almost become a 4th LB. Garbutt was a scrub and is doing nothing in Hamilton too. The guy has 4 sacks in his career. He was exactly the kind of guy we needed to let walk and upgrade. The problem most certainly isn't letting scrubs like Garbutt and Fox go. The problem is when we let scrubs go we aren't able to even upgrade over that. 

Garbutt is hurt...has been for most yr

And I agree...we I think are telling WJ that's his role at times

You can see games..like grey cup..and some this yr if they turn him loose he causes chaos

He needs 2 ...3 running mates to really make him effective...he is far from regression or lost it

A true nose or DT would help all our ends too

[17to85]

56 minutes ago, Booch said:

Garbutt is hurt...has been for most yr

Which was his problem last year too. He was solid when he got in last year though. 

Just seems odd to me the idea some people have that anyone we cut MUST go be a superstar somewhere else ornelse they are a scrub... there's a whole wide area in between... plus we already dress and play more than our own fair share of scrubs.

[Tracker]

4 hours ago, Booch said:

Garbutt is hurt...has been for most yr

And I agree...we I think are telling WJ that's his role at times

You can see games..like grey cup..and some this yr if they turn him loose he causes chaos

He needs 2 ...3 running mates to really make him effective...he is far from regression or lost it

A true nose or DT would help all our ends too

And just because of that, do ya think it's gonna happen?

[SpeedFlex27]

On 2025-09-15 at 6:31 AM, Booch said:

ring of honour sure....no doubt....as soon as he can be eligible

Statue....i dunno...Bud Grant was a totally different cat

He deserves to be honoured absolutely but he also deserves to be replaced. After nearly 13 years, the same message doesn't carry the same weight. 

[Goalie]

Is it possible that the D is actually on younger and not O’Shea. Honestly by the sounds of things it’s a group effort but I would think younger is the guy designing the d plays and putting guys in places he wants them. Youngers D here really hasn’t been about sacks and pressure at all. Richie was more so but he had prime WJ and JJ and Bighill and Alexander and a couple DTs. Kyrie in his prime. I mean. JY don’t got that. So again comes down to Talent and there’s no prime Doug brown or Bighill or Alexander or JJ on the PR right now. Other teams making moves. We doing nothing. Paging Kyle Walters. The invisible man. Seems maybe JY trying to make the best of a not great situation. DBs were supposed to be our strong point. CBs been burned every game. Exposion plays. DL sucks. We know it. JY must. Osh must even. They must know. It’s just odd nobody being brought in. OC a rookie. What do we do. Let zachs favorite target go and don’t upgrade the OL. Putting dude in a tough spot honestly. Give the rookie OC some players to work with. Kyle didn’t do that, Demski and Brady is our O. Wilson has been solid since his return like 2 games ago but it’s basically been 2 guys on O carrying the load. That’s insane. Yeah questionable play calling without knowing the play called but still, the rookie OC was not put in the position to succeed that’s for sure. Like at all really. Yeah he’s got his warts it seems but it’s Demski Brady and Pokey now. That’s our O. You could make the case Kyle did not really give this team a chance this year we hosting the cup. Our OC was set up for failure. JYs D (junkyard dog was cool) was set up to fail. Even Osh was set up to fail cuz the talent was lacking at training camp even. 

Edited yesterday at 04:15 PM by Goalie

[bigg jay]

12 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Is it possible that the D is actually on younger and not O’Shea. Honestly by the sounds of things it’s a group effort but I would think younger is the guy designing the d plays and putting guys in places he wants them. Youngers D here really hasn’t been about sacks and pressure at all. Richie was more so but he had prime WJ and JJ and Bighill and Alexander and a couple DTs. Kyrie in his prime. I mean. JY don’t got that. So again comes down to Talent and there’s no prime Doug brown or Bighill or Alexander or JJ on the PR right now. Other teams making moves. We doing nothing. Paging Kyle Walters. The invisible man. Seems maybe JY trying to make the best of a not great situation. DBs were supposed to be our strong point. CBs been burned every game. Exposion plays. DL sucks. We know it. JY must. Osh must even. They must know. It’s just odd nobody being brought in. OC a rookie. What do we do. Let zachs favorite target go and don’t upgrade the OL. Putting dude in a tough spot honestly. Give the rookie OC some players to work with. Kyle didn’t do that, Demski and Brady is our O. Wilson has been solid since his return like 2 games ago but it’s basically been 2 guys on O carrying the load. That’s insane. Yeah questionable play calling without knowing the play called but still, the rookie OC was not put in the position to succeed that’s for sure. Like at all really. Yeah he’s got his warts it seems but it’s Demski Brady and Pokey now. That’s our O. 

Sounds like this is what Younger wants:

Quote

Houston also raved about the defence’s potential and the work of coordinator Jordan Younger.

“When I was here in ’23 we only played six DBs,” said Houston. “Now I’ve come back and sometimes there’s almost 10 DBs on the field. It’s definitely a new system for me and I like it because it can confuse quarterbacks. That’s our job — make it difficult for the opposing team. We need to force more turnovers, but that will come.”

Hogan: "It's humbling. It's an awesome experience." - Winnipeg Blue Bombers

[Goalie]

6 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

Sounds like this is what Younger wants:

Hogan: "It's humbling. It's an awesome experience." - Winnipeg Blue Bombers

Pretty much confirmed by Houston there. From 6 to 10 dbs. But I’d imagine If we had better talent on the DL that perhaps we would see more sacks and pressure anyways. But we seriously lack it there. I like Lawson and person and that’s it. WJ is great but it’s time. Vaughters hasn’t brought the pressure consistently. Jake? We all know. Korn? We all know. Schmeck? 1 good game does not make a career but I’d let him compete next season for a spot if he’s healthy. Jake gone. Korn gone. WJ gone. Vaughters gone. Kyrie gone. The rest can be brought back to legit compete for spots in a legit competitive best guy wins the spot training camp. 

Edited yesterday at 04:25 PM by Goalie

[Goalie]

Just roster your best roster. 
 

it’s sad that Jake and Korn are 2 of our “best” Canadians. Put in Cobb? lol Cobb is Korn. There is no Korn without the Cobb really. 

[Booch]

Defense is Youngers (DC's) design, that being said...The HC has play sheet for both offence and defense and will more times than not also call plays "he" wants based on situation...down/distance...field position...etc....also what player packages he wants....Obviously the last yr all the above have not been on the same page/mindset

OC guy actually doesn't even have a page...dude is useless and in over his head and Osh will do nothing about it because it will just confirm he screwed up....and he never accepts responsibility for messing up....always has an excuse

so we stuck with it thru the yr sadly...

Edited 23 hours ago by Booch

[wbbfan]

2 hours ago, Goalie said:

Is it possible that the D is actually on younger and not O’Shea. Honestly by the sounds of things it’s a group effort but I would think younger is the guy designing the d plays and putting guys in places he wants them. Youngers D here really hasn’t been about sacks and pressure at all. Richie was more so but he had prime WJ and JJ and Bighill and Alexander and a couple DTs. Kyrie in his prime. I mean. JY don’t got that. So again comes down to Talent and there’s no prime Doug brown or Bighill or Alexander or JJ on the PR right now. Other teams making moves. We doing nothing. Paging Kyle Walters. The invisible man. Seems maybe JY trying to make the best of a not great situation. DBs were supposed to be our strong point. CBs been burned every game. Exposion plays. DL sucks. We know it. JY must. Osh must even. They must know. It’s just odd nobody being brought in. OC a rookie. What do we do. Let zachs favorite target go and don’t upgrade the OL. Putting dude in a tough spot honestly. Give the rookie OC some players to work with. Kyle didn’t do that, Demski and Brady is our O. Wilson has been solid since his return like 2 games ago but it’s basically been 2 guys on O carrying the load. That’s insane. Yeah questionable play calling without knowing the play called but still, the rookie OC was not put in the position to succeed that’s for sure. Like at all really. Yeah he’s got his warts it seems but it’s Demski Brady and Pokey now. That’s our O. You could make the case Kyle did not really give this team a chance this year we hosting the cup. Our OC was set up for failure. JYs D (junkyard dog was cool) was set up to fail. Even Osh was set up to fail cuz the talent was lacking at training camp even. 

It's possible. But not Probable. 

The stretch run from our D last year is a testament to what JY can do. 

This year, I think Jy got saddled with some really bad pieces, and had to replace Dbs, who knew his system and fit well with guys who didn't fit well. Last year, we saw early on that guys struggled with assignments and switches. But a couple of tweaks to the secondary and time to gel, and they caught fire. We haven't found the group to gel with yet in the secondary this year. 

Previously, we killed it at recruiting DBs, and we brought in a bunch of talented guys this year, but their fit was kind of iffy. We brought in a lot of bigger S type guys, and didn't bring in nearly enough actual cover DBs. The S type guys fit our scheme well at wil, sam, and S. But poorly everywhere else. 

The front, is a mess of old boys club and gives JY very little to work with. It's like an OC being told he isn't getting a QB and has to be a run offence, in the CFL. JY has to run a D that is all on the secondary. They can't get beat or give up a gap deep because the QB will have 4+ seconds to make them pay if they do. So they play off the wrs, come up and try to make plays. 

Halls D was about getting pressure with 4 guys too. And yeah, thsoe guys in their prime made that pretty easy. Hall also had incredible versatility. You got BA who can punish Wrs all over the field and blanket deep shots, while also supplying kill shots in the run game. You go Kyrie and Biggie who can get all the way back in cover and be as good as any lbers in the pass game. WJ was dropping back, playing pass lanes, and actually getting a pass rush in. JJ was like a man on fire after the qb every second of every snap. JJ was soo reliable at winning his snaps that WJ could loop wide then break inside and know JJ had contain on the other side. You might not sack in 2 seconds, but qbs didn't get 4 seconds either, the pocket was ticking time bomb. Inside, we had a plethora of guys from Nevis, poop, bryant, stove etc and the best of jake in the most limited of reps. Stove and nevis were a terror side by side when they got run out together. We also had kongbo and hansen who could come in, pass rush, run stop and play inside out. Allowing us to run the cheetah front. We had guys like sayles who could rush from the 3t or the edge. 

Today, none of our starters on D have an significant versatility. 

[Booch]

1 hour ago, wbbfan said:

It's possible. But not Probable. 

The stretch run from our D last year is a testament to what JY can do. 

This year, I think Jy got saddled with some really bad pieces, and had to replace Dbs, who knew his system and fit well with guys who didn't fit well. Last year, we saw early on that guys struggled with assignments and switches. But a couple of tweaks to the secondary and time to gel, and they caught fire. We haven't found the group to gel with yet in the secondary this year. 

Previously, we killed it at recruiting DBs, and we brought in a bunch of talented guys this year, but their fit was kind of iffy. We brought in a lot of bigger S type guys, and didn't bring in nearly enough actual cover DBs. The S type guys fit our scheme well at wil, sam, and S. But poorly everywhere else. 

The front, is a mess of old boys club and gives JY very little to work with. It's like an OC being told he isn't getting a QB and has to be a run offence, in the CFL. JY has to run a D that is all on the secondary. They can't get beat or give up a gap deep because the QB will have 4+ seconds to make them pay if they do. So they play off the wrs, come up and try to make plays. 

Halls D was about getting pressure with 4 guys too. And yeah, thsoe guys in their prime made that pretty easy. Hall also had incredible versatility. You got BA who can punish Wrs all over the field and blanket deep shots, while also supplying kill shots in the run game. You go Kyrie and Biggie who can get all the way back in cover and be as good as any lbers in the pass game. WJ was dropping back, playing pass lanes, and actually getting a pass rush in. JJ was like a man on fire after the qb every second of every snap. JJ was soo reliable at winning his snaps that WJ could loop wide then break inside and know JJ had contain on the other side. You might not sack in 2 seconds, but qbs didn't get 4 seconds either, the pocket was ticking time bomb. Inside, we had a plethora of guys from Nevis, poop, bryant, stove etc and the best of jake in the most limited of reps. Stove and nevis were a terror side by side when they got run out together. We also had kongbo and hansen who could come in, pass rush, run stop and play inside out. Allowing us to run the cheetah front. We had guys like sayles who could rush from the 3t or the edge. 

Today, none of our starters on D have an significant versatility. 

Youngers system will work...but needs legit dline rotation with guys who are active...and possess slick technical skills...and know how to use hands...and can overpower and finesse

we have 2 guys with all that...WJ...Person...Vaughters not as technical but has others and is smart

Adams has good tech...hand skills and power...but needs to be allowed to grow/learn...Woods prob best all round DT...why he not on is baffling

Lawson power and versatile 

The rest...posssss almost none of what you want in our scheme for regular reps...any reps really 

[HardCoreBlue]

1 hour ago, Booch said:

Youngers system will work...but needs legit dline rotation with guys who are active...and possess slick technical skills...and know how to use hands...and can overpower and finesse

we have 2 guys with all that...WJ...Person...Vaughters not as technical but has others and is smart

Adams has good tech...hand skills and power...but needs to be allowed to grow/learn...Woods prob best all round DT...why he not on is baffling

Lawson power and versatile 

The rest...posssss almost none of what you want in our scheme for regular reps...any reps really 

In summary why is Jake Thomas playing?

I know I know I exhaust me as well.

[Booch]

7 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

In summary why is Jake Thomas playing?

I know I know I exhaust me as well.

well in all honesty....i truly believe it's just cause Osh likes him...and thinks he offers value.....Not a good indicator of his ability to assess talent really when you look at it...cause if he thinks he's better out there than all our other DT's....based on his reps....he's really out to lunch, especially considering he offers no upside...is old..what...34 now?...and is very limited in what he could do, pretty much from his first yr

[HardCoreBlue]

21 minutes ago, Booch said:

well in all honesty....i truly believe it's just cause Osh likes him...and thinks he offers value.....Not a good indicator of his ability to assess talent really when you look at it...cause if he thinks he's better out there than all our other DT's....based on his reps....he's really out to lunch, especially considering he offers no upside...is old..what...34 now?...and is very limited in what he could do, pretty much from his first yr

Who is the best Defensive Coordinator in the CFL (past or present) who's great at creating defensive systems that got the best out the players that were given to him?

 

[Mark H.]

11 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Who is the best Defensive Coordinator in the CFL (past or present) who's great at creating defensive systems that got the best out the players that were given to him?

 

At the risk of creating more PTSD here...Tim Burke 

[wbbfan]

19 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Who is the best Defensive Coordinator in the CFL (past or present) who's great at creating defensive systems that got the best out the players that were given to him?

 

Tim burke. Haha, seriously he was a really good dcor. Just very limited in that role. 

Chris jones, yes a toxic waste dump of a leader, but tremendous dcor too. 

Halls style is oft maligned, and has a half life but is Ds around the league have evolved to adopt his style.

I really like Bob slowik in calgary, he’s learned and taken a lot from jy and hall here. 

Noel thorpe is a better version of lapo for D. 

Brett monsoon is very good but hasn’t adapted well to roster change. 

Im very fond of Baron miles and JY as guys on the upswing. 

If you wanna go back in time, ritchie and don mathew’s are two of the best from their era. But it’s extremely hard to compare D from the early 2ks and prior to today. 

 

The league is generally run by offence and OC minds. The Ds here are at a big disadvantage. 

Edited 17 hours ago by wbbfan

[Mark H.]

Remember Matthews:

Second and long, line up the entire secondary at the first down markers...blitz everyone else.

[Booch]

10 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Tim burke. Haha, seriously he was a really good dcor. Just very limited in that role. 

Chris jones, yes a toxic waste dump of a leader, but tremendous dcor too. 

Halls style is oft maligned, and has a half life but is Ds around the league have evolved to adopt his style.

I really like Bob slowik in calgary, he’s learned and taken a lot from jy and hall here. 

Noel thorpe is a better version of lapo for D. 

Brett monsoon is very good but hasn’t adapted well to roster change. 

Im very fond of Baron miles and JY as guys on the upswing. 

If you wanna go back in time, ritchie and don mathew’s are two of the best from their era. But it’s extremely hard to compare D from the early 2ks and prior to today. 

 

The league is generally run by offence and OC minds. The Ds here are at a big disadvantage. 

Good list.....going back yeah Ritchie and Mathews got best outta their squds

Actually over looked alot is Mike Riley for us...Under Murphy he was a damned good DB coach and then as HC teamed up with Ritchie as head coach in 1990 to put out a damned fine defense...Many prob don't recal back then a lot of times you didnt really have a DC per say...but was a group effort....He was a highly underated Defensive mind by the average Joe, but players and coaches know what he brought...also a reason why he was in the NFL and NCAA as long as he was....If he wasnt lured away and was here for 5 to 10 yrs we wouldn't have been lost in the wilderness and Osh be chasing him as winningest coach...Dude was just the best

Rod Rust as well was an innovative mind and formed defenses to suit his players

[wbbfan]

6 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

Remember Matthews:

Second and long, line up the entire secondary at the first down markers...blitz everyone else.

man, his cover 0 dominated. Play a few dbs back at the first down marker and send every one else. teams tried to out heavy set them, until eventually they best it with the spread and quick hitch stuff. 

 

4 minutes ago, Booch said:

Good list.....going back yeah Ritchie and Mathews got best outta their squds

Actually over looked alot is Mike Riley for us...Under Murphy he was a damned good DB coach and then as HC teamed up with Ritchie as head coach in 1990 to put out a damned fine defense...Many prob don't recal back then a lot of times you didnt really have a DC per say...but was a group effort....He was a highly underated Defensive mind by the average Joe, but players and coaches know what he brought...also a reason why he was in the NFL and NCAA as long as he was....If he wasnt lured away and was here for 5 to 10 yrs we wouldn't have been lost in the wilderness and Osh be chasing him as winningest coach...Dude was just the best

Rod Rust as well was an innovative mind and formed defenses to suit his players

Rust was really under rated from his earlier als stints in the cfl. I liked the way he ran camp and practice here. One of the best coaches of fundamentals i’ve seen.   He could talk about tackling for hours. 

 His exit from exit here was odd and unfortunate. 

[Mark H.]

16 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Rust was really under rated from his earlier als stints in the cfl. I liked the way he ran camp and practice here. One of the best coaches of fundamentals i’ve seen.   He could talk about tackling for hours. 

 His exit from exit here was odd and unfortunate. 

Yeah, the D dominated until he left, then no one seemed to have a hot clue.

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Who is the best Defensive Coordinator in the CFL (past or present) who's great at creating defensive systems that got the best out the players that were given to him?

 

Rick Stubler, Dave Ritchie, Noel Thorpe.

[SpeedFlex27]

51 minutes ago, Booch said:

Good list.....going back yeah Ritchie and Mathews got best outta their squds

Actually over looked alot is Mike Riley for us...Under Murphy he was a damned good DB coach and then as HC teamed up with Ritchie as head coach in 1990 to put out a damned fine defense...Many prob don't recal back then a lot of times you didnt really have a DC per say...but was a group effort....He was a highly underated Defensive mind by the average Joe, but players and coaches know what he brought...also a reason why he was in the NFL and NCAA as long as he was....If he wasnt lured away and was here for 5 to 10 yrs we wouldn't have been lost in the wilderness and Osh be chasing him as winningest coach...Dude was just the best

Rod Rust as well was an innovative mind and formed defenses to suit his players

Yeah, Rust's defenses in Montreal were stout. 

[wbbfan]

3 hours ago, Mark H. said:

Yeah, the D dominated until he left, then no one seemed to have a hot clue.

some guys get how to coach and call blitzes and pressure. and when to use specific rushes. he was the finest i’ve ever seen at that. he could take any one fast and make use of them. 
He wasn’t big on delegation or making him self expendable though. 

 

3 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Rick Stubler, Dave Ritchie, Noel Thorpe.

thorpe is a good one. stubler was such a mad scientist at dc. 

[Booch]

7 hours ago, wbbfan said:

some guys get how to coach and call blitzes and pressure. and when to use specific rushes. he was the finest i’ve ever seen at that. he could take any one fast and make use of them. 
He wasn’t big on delegation or making him self expendable though. 

 

thorpe is a good one. stubler was such a mad scientist at dc. 

lot of guys still use much of the stuff Stub's first introduced up here

[Mark H.]

2 hours ago, Booch said:

lot of guys still use much of the stuff Stub's first introduced up here

Totally. The assumption that offensive coaches with not have the patience to stick with the running game...in 3 down football

Defend the pass well and hold them to field goals...seems to work more often than not