GDT - Bombers at Stamps- Aug 9

[3rdand1.5]

On defence, find a real safety...is Cam Allan that guy? Is Woodsby, Vaval, Shay or Smith, Holm, J Jones or ??? Bring in someone if we can't find one in house. Take off one LB and add on more DL.....Is Woods healthy..... I really believe that a couple minor tweaks, and one needs to be a real safety and Youngers defence can and will be good again.

[Slimy Sculpin]

1 hour ago, 3rdand1.5 said:

My two cents...

We did not lose because of Thomas

We did not lose because of the two points given up on the kickoffs

We lost because we gave up 3 explosion plays and took one massive PI penalty.....outside of that our defence while not outstanding did enough...so why do we keep giving up the big plays, correct me if I am wrong but we are worst in the league in this are we not? The Parker to safety experiment didn't work, the Kramdi to safety experiment doesn't seem to be working and Kelly didn't exactly exude confidence back there.......I may be wrong but I feel better safety play and perhaps one less LB and one more DL and our defence "can" be good.

However while our defence contributed our offence wears IMO the biggest goat horns.....I didn't find Zach played terrible, no INTs but only ever seemed able to find the checkdown open, once Cal. adjsuted and covered Brady he started taking sacks instead of throwing INT's.....I didn't think the o-line played that bad Zach had a pocket and even on many sacks he had time, or ran out of the pocket into a defender.....Brady ran darn hard...but the offence stunk....why...we know our receivers are not great, but It has to be more than that......I just don't think what Hogan is doing is working, and we don't have the luxury of waiting to see if it will......

I think that many on this forum would agree that Hogan, even giving him the "rookie benefit of the doubt", feel that he should be relieved of OC duties. I realize that Jackson has a checkered record but given his experience and the fact that he was a QB, I'd be leaning toward him as a replacement at least for the duration of the season.

 

[TommyClements]

2 hours ago, Booch said:

Well when cut u will never know...other teams put in work and time in their own guys so other teams cuts they for most part have zero intel on them...or zero need as they sliced away their own dead weight and replenished it already

Funny thing Ham has prob now what 8..9 guys on their roster contributing...guys we deemed expendable or not worth the cost...and a couple of our former management and scouting guys...about 18 percent of their roster

What's their record and how they look compared to us? Rather telling when you look at it

This argument is flawed in so many ways. CFL teams are constantly cycling through other team’s cuts, at least the intriguing ones, because they are all familiar with largely the same pool of players. The ones who are cut and never heard from again? Usually there’s a reason.

This take is a way to avoid ever saying you were wrong in getting excited about a camp cut.

Hamilton is winning because of former Bombers? Other than Lawler, what difference maker have they brought in? Their D stinks and I don’t think Johnny Augustine and Drew Wolitarsky (who hasn’t started) make opposition coaches shudder.

[JuranBoldenRules]

14 minutes ago, TommyClements said:

This argument is flawed in so many ways. CFL teams are constantly cycling through other team’s cuts, at least the intriguing ones, because they are all familiar with largely the same pool of players. The ones who are cut and never heard from again? Usually there’s a reason.

This take is a way to avoid ever saying you were wrong in getting excited about a camp cut.

Hamilton is winning because of former Bombers? Other than Lawler, what difference maker have they brought in? Their D stinks and I don’t think Johnny Augustine and Drew Wolitarsky (who hasn’t started) make opposition coaches shudder.

Yeah their average game is 31-27...so it's not like anyone on their D from here is lights out.  

If we're worried about Miles Fox, Tyjuan Garbutt and Brian Cole our heads are firmly planted in our asses.  Those guys are not good pro football players.

[Slimy Sculpin]

Based on my watching all of the Bomber games this season, I'm a bit perplexed as to why Wilson is not running the 3rd and short offence.  Sure Streveler has been successful since he has been back, sort of. I think that he's missed maybe two including that big one yesterday. When Wilson was handling those duties while Streveler was out, he looked good to me, a very strong push. Streveler, to my eye, does not have the leg push he had before (still injury related?) Another OC mistake, IMO.

 

[JuranBoldenRules]

4 minutes ago, Slimy Sculpin said:

Based on my watching all of the Bomber games this season, I'm a bit perplexed as to why Wilson is not running the 3rd and short offence.  Sure Streveler has been successful since he has been back, sort of. I think that he's missed maybe two including that big one yesterday. When Wilson was handling those duties while Streveler was out, he looked good to me, a very strong push. Streveler, to my eye, does not have the leg push he had before (still injury related?) Another OC mistake, IMO.

 

Streveler has never been good at the wedge play.  He hesitates and looks for a gap plus he's way too upright.  He was bad last year too.  We lost a game because of it in Toronto last season.

If they are going to use him they need to use more of a veer, QB power/option/zone blocking kind of look out of pistol.  It's insane to me to have him out there with no back, no even potential pass option, no motion across formation.  In general I hate that look where everyone ambles up to the line of scrimmage, no handoff option, no pass option...D knows exactly what's coming and it's only going between the guards.  Way too easy to defend.

If they want to run the wedge, then it should be Wilson.

[GCn20]

31 minutes ago, TommyClements said:

This argument is flawed in so many ways. CFL teams are constantly cycling through other team’s cuts, at least the intriguing ones, because they are all familiar with largely the same pool of players. The ones who are cut and never heard from again? Usually there’s a reason.

This take is a way to avoid ever saying you were wrong in getting excited about a camp cut.

Hamilton is winning because of former Bombers? Other than Lawler, what difference maker have they brought in? Their D stinks and I don’t think Johnny Augustine and Drew Wolitarsky (who hasn’t started) make opposition coaches shudder.

There are some who believe that rotational mediocre DLinemen Fox and Garbutt will lead the Ticats to the promised land.

[17to85]

33 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

We lost a game because of it in Toronto last season

Technically we lost that game because replay gave it to Toronto and then apologized after the fact.

[Booch]

2 hours ago, 3rdand1.5 said:

My two cents...

We did not lose because of Thomas

We did not lose because of the two points given up on the kickoffs

We lost because we gave up 3 explosion plays and took one massive PI penalty.....outside of that our defence while not outstanding did enough...so why do we keep giving up the big plays, correct me if I am wrong but we are worst in the league in this are we not? The Parker to safety experiment didn't work, the Kramdi to safety experiment doesn't seem to be working and Kelly didn't exactly exude confidence back there.......I may be wrong but I feel better safety play and perhaps one less LB and one more DL and our defence "can" be good.

However while our defence contributed our offence wears IMO the biggest goat horns.....I didn't find Zach played terrible, no INTs but only ever seemed able to find the checkdown open, once Cal. adjsuted and covered Brady he started taking sacks instead of throwing INT's.....I didn't think the o-line played that bad Zach had a pocket and even on many sacks he had time, or ran out of the pocket into a defender.....Brady ran darn hard...but the offence stunk....why...we know our receivers are not great, but It has to be more than that......I just don't think what Hogan is doing is working, and we don't have the luxury of waiting to see if it will......

Yeah Thomas isnt reason...but he has no business on roster...and won't ever give a tide changing play or any impact...factor in zero upside now...no relevance...why he playing...he just taking reps away from better players and blocking up development of youngsters with upside...there several guys on the roster doing that

OC guy has no clue on how to create let alone manage a pro playbook and his play calling and situational decisions are awful

1 hour ago, Tracker said:

In the early part of the season, I held to the opinion that O'Shea was the problem and had to go. Now that we are at the halfway point, I amend my thoughts- nothing less than a complete housecleaning will suffice. If Walters has the power to fire O'Shea  and has not, he is an integral part of this mess. If he does not have the authority, he should have the dignity and guts to throw up his hands and leave. Either way, he is part of the problem and not part of the remedy. The season is essentially lost, so lets get the bloodletting underway STAT. 

Too much buddy relationships here are clouding the proper judgement of decisions...

[Tracker]

1 hour ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Start by using our American roster spots.

3 American OL when Vanterpool is back.  I'd even try the guy they just signed in the interior if he's looking physical.  We need someone/a few guys to drag the O into the fight.  Don't think Brady will be that guy, he's busted up.

Cam Allen should be in, likely boundary corner given who we have healthy.  Might give Russ Dandy a call from camp get him a couple weeks of practice.  We seem to be losing a DB a week to injury.  Get creative with deployment.  Woodbey should be ready to play.  Use him at SAM/WIL...pop Griffin/Kramdi back to safety when we go 2 high.  Woodbey might fill Ayres special teams spot and give us a lot more on D.  Kelly should only be out there when we really need 7 DB's.  Or use him at field corner or even kind of a blitzing dime style spot.  Don't think he can process fast enough to be the guy responsible to support up top, even in cover 2/3.  He needs to just have one job where he doesn't have to make many reads or decisions.

IMO if we prioritize O and D a bit we have spots for 3 American OL, another American on D (even 2 if you swap out Ayres and another of the LB's for guys that would have roles on D, secondary and DL).

Agree with most of your suggestions but as far as the O-line is concerned, GET KOLANKOWSKI THE HELL OUTTA THERE and that alone will improve the line dramatically, and similarly, Thomas is has been a liability for a couple of years, so out he goes. 

Ain't gonna happen so long as O'Shea is head. coach

[Booch]

51 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Yeah their average game is 31-27...so it's not like anyone on their D from here is lights out.  

If we're worried about Miles Fox, Tyjuan Garbutt and Brian Cole our heads are firmly planted in our asses.  Those guys are not good pro football players.

They as a collective are markedly better

[Booch]

@DTonOB you have some defensive rep numbers for our DA's? I know Vavals will be squewwed as he was an injury replacement but curious on others..and not including goaline/shortyardage reps as they basically just a body 

What kinda reps did CGY's DA's get in comparison?

[JuranBoldenRules]

1 hour ago, Booch said:

They as a collective are markedly better

So you'd cut Adams/Woods, Person and J Jones for those 3?

I wouldn't.  Can complain about how they are using Americans on D...but those 3 in Hamilton as players are nowhere near being impact players.  Average is probably overstating their impact on D...both here and now half a season in Hamilton.

Edited 6 hours ago by JuranBoldenRules

[Booch]

1 minute ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

So you'd cut Adams/Woods, Person and J Jones for those 3?

I wouldn't.  Can complain about how they are using Americans on D...but those 3 in Hamilton as players are nowhere near being impact players.  Average is probably overstating their impact on D...both here and now half a season in Hamilton.

No..but they could be used as rotational pieces and as depth with experience...more use than our 2 Canadian dt's not named Lawson...

I didn't say they as singular players are all world..but used accordingly and in tandem with our best guys...we would be better

Woli and BOLO would help here...we let Sayles walk for money...hed sure be nice as a mainstay here...Dobson even with still some weak moments would make our line much better

Lawler...nuff said...even legs...we could have freed up a DA spot...sure Castillo can make some long bombs...but also has bouts of Mr miss too...

Cyril Penn...left basically cause why would he stay when his work basically gets pissed on by a coach who just keeps rostering the same ol same ol...he could have stayed here but folowed Goviea

We let guys go with no viable plan B...or hang onto the belief some of the slugs and pylons we have kicking around are adequate...and they are not and hence here we are

[JuranBoldenRules]

1 hour ago, Booch said:

No..but they could be used as rotational pieces and as depth with experience...more use than our 2 Canadian dt's not named Lawson...

I didn't say they as singular players are all world..but used accordingly and in tandem with our best guys...we would be better

Woli and BOLO would help here...we let Sayles walk for money...hed sure be nice as a mainstay here...Dobson even with still some weak moments would make our line much better

Lawler...nuff said...even legs...we could have freed up a DA spot...sure Castillo can make some long bombs...but also has bouts of Mr miss too...

Cyril Penn...left basically cause why would he stay when his work basically gets pissed on by a coach who just keeps rostering the same ol same ol...he could have stayed here but folowed Goviea

We let guys go with no viable plan B...or hang onto the belief some of the slugs and pylons we have kicking around are adequate...and they are not and hence here we are

Cyril Penn has done jack ****.  Hamilton signed a bunch of free agents.  We have years of piss poor camps in his tenure and barely any solid American prospects outside the secondary.

[Goalie]

1 hour ago, Booch said:

No..but they could be used as rotational pieces and as depth with experience...more use than our 2 Canadian dt's not named Lawson...

I didn't say they as singular players are all world..but used accordingly and in tandem with our best guys...we would be better

Woli and BOLO would help here...we let Sayles walk for money...hed sure be nice as a mainstay here...Dobson even with still some weak moments would make our line much better

Lawler...nuff said...even legs...we could have freed up a DA spot...sure Castillo can make some long bombs...but also has bouts of Mr miss too...

Cyril Penn...left basically cause why would he stay when his work basically gets pissed on by a coach who just keeps rostering the same ol same ol...he could have stayed here but folowed Goviea

We let guys go with no viable plan B...or hang onto the belief some of the slugs and pylons we have kicking around are adequate...and they are not and hence here we are

So you **** on O’Shea but basically all your complaints here are above O’Shea. O’Shea didn’t let lawler or Dobson walk. Walters did. O’Shea isn’t the guy bringing in guys, Walters is. Your bias towards O’Shea is showing. 
 

we all complain about a guy like Jake but he’s on the roster cuz Walters signed him and hasn’t found a guy to replace him with. CFL you have to dress so many Canadians. Jake is dressed cuz the next Canadian isn’t better. That’s on Walters. 

Edited 5 hours ago by Goalie

[wbbfan]

3 hours ago, TommyClements said:

This argument is flawed in so many ways. CFL teams are constantly cycling through other team’s cuts, at least the intriguing ones, because they are all familiar with largely the same pool of players. The ones who are cut and never heard from again? Usually there’s a reason.

This take is a way to avoid ever saying you were wrong in getting excited about a camp cut.

Hamilton is winning because of former Bombers? Other than Lawler, what difference maker have they brought in? Their D stinks and I don’t think Johnny Augustine and Drew Wolitarsky (who hasn’t started) make opposition coaches shudder.

That hasn’t been the case in a long while. Doubly so since the coaching cap came in. In league scouting is the worst its ever been by a huge margin. 
 Early in the mafia days we killed it at in league scouting. Since the cap, haven’t found jack. 
 

Talent into the league is also down significantly since the nfl pr expansion, increase in nfl pr pay, and the nfls evolution to spread/rpo/spread to run etc schemes that used to not be “pro” systems.
 

When guys get picked up by other teams now, it’s almost always either college overlap scouting, front office/coach moving to a new team and brining guys with them, or grabbing a guy you played against in pre season.
 

Teams are very much fumbling in the dark trying to find talent with very limited tools to do so. This is why we seldom see new players progress to star levels any more, and why every team is hurting for imp talent at multiple spots.
 

That makes it all the harder to watch us cut blue chip guys with out giving many a shot, or guys who actually excelled in camp/ps. We aren’t getting more of that pretty much the rest of the year now. No more LD air lift roster make overs. NFL pr guy in as little as 3 weeks makes as much as a rookie here who starts the whole season once you convert usd/cad and pay Canadian taxes.
 

Rookies and camp cuts don’t have to be all stars immediately, when you play many guys at or below replacement level. 
 Let’s take the easy comparison in Bridges. We easily cut 3-4 dbs better than him. You don’t need to have amazing scouting skills to see that, not when we brought back a tc cut, used a kr who didn’t make it as a db alone, and have two dbs from camp on the pr. Any of those guys would’ve done better than bridges, and offered the up side potential of becoming an all star. Bridges was a known commodity last year. 
 

Now do the same with Guys like Kyrie, wr core, bonds etc. 
 Then you can look at well below replacement level Canadians. Because we’ve been under using the allotment of imps, haven’t been playing dis on D/O, haven’t been using the naturalized Canadians, and even a guy like Bailey vs end of PR Canadians like ball/kornelson.  
 

What you end up with is a big, big pile of roster spots that give us far below replacement level, that we could’ve used to develop younger more talented guys who performed better in camp/ps. You could even flip a far below replacement level Canadian (kola, Thomas, Corcoran etc) for an import who has already shown flashes of being better than replacement as an imp. Which is a huge talent swing. 
 

We’ve tried little of substance to fix the wr core, the mafia has admitted defeat to the 5-6 dl with no viable bodies to rotate, we’ve tried fixing the ol with changes to every spot but kola, and we’ve finally started admitting defeat in the secondary with guys like bridges, and the double switch+ at Sam/s. 
 

It isn’t some ridiculous claim to say that guys who got cut out of camp, would’ve been upgrades to guys we kept, who have only continued to struggle or gotten worse. 
 Some positions like qb rely a lot more on nuance/intangibles, and struggle with the speed up to game action. But others, like db/rb/lb etc don’t. 
 

Hamiltons poaching efforts (lawler aside) hurt us and helped them with out stars changing place. You might be lucky to have 3-4 stars on your team. The majority of your team is made up of role guys. If those guys play level isn’t as apparent in the stat sheet, and they aren’t getting accolades. But when your depth pieces are suddenly worse than every one else’s, you struggle a lot more. And when you’re go from bottom tier to middle of the pack, you might not have a great D, but suddenly you win a lot more games. 
 

Our depth stinks, even the greenest fan sees that. It stinks, because we have failed to develop young guys and move them up the pipeline. When you do that, you end up walking away from good players you shouldn’t have.
That is where we are. we likely haven’t Cut any rookie dalton schoen types. But we have cut enough better players that we’ve lost out on a couple that would’ve turned into all stars, and upgrades. 

[Mark H.]

2 hours ago, Booch said:

sure Castillo can make some long bombs...but also has bouts of Mr miss too...

Lol, criticize one of the things actually being done right 

[GCn20]

7 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

Lol, criticize one of the things actually being done right 

Yea.. Castillo is literally playing lights out.

[Slimy Sculpin]

2 hours ago, GCn20 said:

Yea.. Castillo is literally playing lights out.

I'm ok with Sergio. Besides, he came over to chat with my grandson yesterday. He may not be a Shaun White as far as consistency goes but I'd take him everyday over him and the others.

 

[Goalie]

Sergio is our O. Just like Medlock was.  Not much has changed. Buck and Hogan both Lapo Bros. Just bring back Lapo as OC since still using his playbook. 

Edited 1 hour ago by Goalie

[Slimy Sculpin]

2 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Sergio is our O. Just like Medlock was.  Not much has changed. Buck and Hogan both Lapo Bros. 

I hadn't thought of it that way but you may be on to something.

To me our offense looks like kindergarten versus high school for most other teams. Being at yesterday's game, I saw the complexity of the Stamps' routes versus the elementary routes of the Bombers. 

And, the big thing about the CFL is that it's a passing league. I think Oliveira is pretty good but to win the big one....

[Goalie]

27 minutes ago, Slimy Sculpin said:

I hadn't thought of it that way but you may be on to something.

To me our offense looks like kindergarten versus high school for most other teams. Being at yesterday's game, I saw the complexity of the Stamps' routes versus the elementary routes of the Bombers. 

And, the big thing about the CFL is that it's a passing league. I think Oliveira is pretty good but to win the big one....

12 carries 5.7 avg. 20 carries = win probably and 100 running and catching. OC is yup.. kindergarten 

 

that’s how we won with Harris here. 20 carries. Bunch of pssses out the backfield. Odd long bomb to Demski Schoen or lawler or Wilson last year more. 

Edited 1 hour ago by Goalie