CFL Game #65 Team Notes – Saskatchewan at Toronto:

 Trestman vs Jones: Despite a combined 203 career regular season games as head coaches, Marc Trestman (2008-2012, 2017-18) and Chris Jones (2014-18) have faced each other only 3 times before. The 2017-18 seasons are their only common years and in all 3 meetings Jones has prevailed over Trestman with Saskatchewan defeating Toronto.

 Toronto Off a Bye: The Argos have a current 3-game win streak when they are coming off a bye week - and that includes win this year over Edmonton in Week #4 (20-17), and over BC in Week #10 (24-23). With Saskatchewan being the opponent in their third post-bye week game, all three will be against West Division clubs.

 Toronto scoring by half: The Argos have scored 142 of their 236 total points in the 2nd half (60% of them) compared to just 94 in the 1st half where their margin is -99 (94-193). They have trailed at the half in their last 8 games and in 10 out of 11 in 2018.

 27 TDs - 44% returns: Of Saskatchewan's 27 total TDs thus far, 15 have come on offence with 12 as returns of 4 different types. That represents 44% of their team total. That is by far the highest % in all of CFL history.

 8 SSK Def. TD / 12 Return TDs: Each week continues to see a growing number of touchdowns scored by the Riders' defence this year. They now have a club record 8 Def. scores and have at least one in 7 of their 11 games. The CFL record is 11 defensive TDs set by BC in 1987. The Riders also returned 2 kicks last week for scores taking their total to 12 total return TDs. 

 Narrow 2017-2018 Argos' games: All three Toronto wins this year have been by 3 points or less, they have 5 games overall decided by that margin including two defeats. Under Coach Trestman in 2017-18, they have had 11 of their 29 games decided by margins of 4 points or less.

 SSK field position: The Riders are #2 in the CFL in drive starting point with the 37.4-yard line their average for 2018. They have started 22 times inside their opponent's half of the field.

 Alexandre Gagne 13 STT: The Riders' 2nd year kick cover specialist continues to excel and has a 5-game streak with at least one Special Teams Tackle (9 STT's in that span). He is now up to 13 for the season 2 off the CFL lead. Last year he had just 1 STT.

 Kyran Moore: Has a career total of only 10 punt returns in his 4 games since joining the Riders but ... has returned two of those for touchdowns in the last 3 games. 

 3 different players with a Kick Return TD: The Riders have gotten kick returns TDs from Kyran Moore, Marcus Thigpen and Christion Jones in 2018. That is one short of the CFL record set by Edmonton in 1986 with 4 different players with a kick return TD.

 McLeod Bethel-Thompson: Is slated to make his 6th straight start for Toronto and though he has gone over 300 yards only once, he has exceeded 295 yards three times in 5 games. In his last start he threw 2 TD passes, his second multi-TD game in 5 contests. He has moved the ball well on offence directing 3 TD drives in each of the last two Argos' games.

 416 yards per game allowed: Toronto ranks #8 in Net Offence allowed (416 yards per game) ahead of only Montreal (424 per game). Toronto opponents have gotten over 400 yards in 7 of the 11 games thus far.

2 minutes ago, TheBandit said:

You're blaming the Bomber losses on because Nichols was boo'ed from the fans.....?? Are you delusional man. The Bombers offense is brutal outside of Harris. If Harris isn't going the bombers aren't going.

well, it was part of the issue. He was trying too hard to make plays the following games. He was rattled and took that personally. I agree it shouldn't affect him, he is a pro- but it did and led to those turnovers that were the difference in both games. How is that a stretch?

12 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

well, it was part of the issue. He was trying too hard to make plays the following games. He was rattled and took that personally. I agree it shouldn't affect him, he is a pro- but it did and led to those turnovers that were the difference in both games. How is that a stretch?

Dude....the team is 6-7 and is the worst team in the west division. It's more then just Nichols being boo'ed at. The team flat out is underperforming this year.

5 minutes ago, TheBandit said:

Dude....the team is 6-7 and is the worst team in the west division. It's more then just Nichols being boo'ed at. The team flat out is underperforming this year.

Absolutely. They are under-performing. 

 

Riders are still the worst though, they are Montreal/Toronto bad.

8 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Absolutely. They are under-performing. 

 

Riders are still the worst though, they are Montreal/Toronto bad.

Say what you want, their record is 2nd best in the CFL and they have a defense and special teams that wins them games. They have an offense which may not perform, seems to put up enough TD's to win.

At the end of the year, getting into playoffs is what matters.

4 minutes ago, TheBandit said:

At the end of the year, getting into playoffs is what matters.

Agreed.

3 hours ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Absolutely. They are under-performing. 

 

Riders are still the worst though, they are Montreal/Toronto bad.

You are what your record says you are, and the Bombers record says they are the worst team in the west and the third-worst in the league.

10 minutes ago, Tracker said:

You are what your record says you are, and the Bombers record says they are the worst team in the west and the third-worst in the league.

And only 4 points behind 2nd overall. 

At least, we can always step up to the plate, and offer excuses.....

1 hour ago, JCon said:

And only 4 points behind 2nd overall. 

Actually the Bombers are 5 points back on the Riders. Riders own season series.

Edited September 24, 20187 yr by TheBandit
Unclear

8 hours ago, Ripper said:

Its not luck when you lose to someone 2 weeks in a row. As far as giving games away, well, turnovers etc. are always a part of most loses. Not taking care of the football can be a side effect of pressure or many other things.  Teams like Calgary always seem to come out on the winning side of close games. They are just good and make few mistakes, its not a secret, they just outlast their opponents. Talent wise, there usually isn't  a huge difference between the top team and the bottom one. The top teams just never make mistakes and they protect the ball. 

You've made some good points. To me, it's all about mental toughness. 

Concerning luck, I'm reminded of a Gary Player quote that went "The more I practice, the luckier I get".

5 hours ago, do or die said:

At least, we can always step up to the plate, and offer excuses.....

 

Do you believe in luck?  Is there something “real” about luck? 

I believe in luck although I can’t adequately explain it or describe it. But I know it’s there, (mostly evading me). But I sit beside people who lucky, and generally are lucky. I see it in them a lot. I accept the fact they are more lucky than I, and hence it doesn’t bother me. It’s just the way it is. 

But to deny a lucky bounce or a lucky trip or a lucky recovery is just silly. Things happen that even hard work or lots of practice can’t account for. 

I cannot see how anyone can deny they’ve witnessed some sort of lucky phenomenon, either big or small.

It’s there. It’s real. 

“One of the reasons that we deny the role of luck is that it acts as a cold counterbalance to the notion of hard work. At every stage in our lives we are taught that the best way to make our way in the world is by hard work, tenacity, and grit. And while I believe there is a lot of truth to this, it also causes some perverse consequences.

For instance, when we’re successful, we’re hesitant or even ashamed to admit that luck played a role because we somehow feel that diminishes what was under our control.

Conversely, if we’re hit with bad luck, it’s culturally reinforced that that was our own fault. We’re led to believe that we’re responsible for outcomes not process, when in fact just the opposite is true.

We are culturally conditioned to deny the role of luck because of its impact on our search for meaning”. - Farnham Street 

You can go on believing everything is structured and that you will be rewarded for it, but all I can say is...good luck with that.

 

Edited September 25, 20187 yr by Mr Dee

3 hours ago, Mr Dee said:

Do you believe in luck?  Is there something “real” about luck? 

I believe in luck although I can’t adequately explain it or describe it. But I know it’s there, (mostly evading me). But I sit beside people who lucky, and generally are lucky. I see it in them a lot. I accept the fact they are more lucky than I, and hence it doesn’t bother me. It’s just the way it is. 

But to deny a lucky bounce or a lucky trip or a lucky recovery is just silly. Things happen that even hard work or lots of practice can’t account for. 

I cannot see how anyone can deny they’ve witnessed some sort of lucky phenomenon, either big or small.

It’s there. It’s real. 

“One of the reasons that we deny the role of luck is that it acts as a cold counterbalance to the notion of hard work. At every stage in our lives we are taught that the best way to make our way in the world is by hard work, tenacity, and grit. And while I believe there is a lot of truth to this, it also causes some perverse consequences.

For instance, when we’re successful, we’re hesitant or even ashamed to admit that luck played a role because we somehow feel that diminishes what was under our control.

Conversely, if we’re hit with bad luck, it’s culturally reinforced that that was our own fault. We’re led to believe that we’re responsible for outcomes not process, when in fact just the opposite is true.

We are culturally conditioned to deny the role of luck because of its impact on our search for meaning”. - Farnham Street 

You can go on believing everything is structured and that you will be rewarded for it, but all I can say is...good luck with that.

 

 

"You know Deet, think about this.  You've got to be good to be lucky. And lucky to be good. "

 

 

49 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

“You know Deet, think about this.  You've got to be good to be lucky. And lucky to be good. "

 Ah yes, the old tried and true cliche. It does make a good sound bite, but it really doesn’t explain luck or lack thereof..

16 minutes ago, Mr Dee said:

 Ah yes, the old tried and true cliche. It does make a good sound bite, but it really doesn’t explain luck or lack thereof..ng

It just came to me. Along with another old cliché, "You can't control everything so control the things that you can. Like how you play." Actually, I think that cliché about luck does explain a lot. I think great players & great teams create their own luck. They have such unwavering belief in themselves, their teammates & their coaches that when things get tough in a game they believe that they can't lose. Maybe not always but even when they lose they still believe. And they win more than than they lose because of that belief or mindset. How many times have we seen bad teams fold when the going gets tough? They don't have a belief system of winning & it's  is not part of a bad team's culture. 

Edited September 25, 20187 yr by SpeedFlex27

Luck cannot be created. What you described is fundamentally sound play assisted by hard work. That doesn’t create luck, it just provides better opportunities to be successful or, be unsuccessful if something out of their control intervenes. 

Luck - success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions.

1 minute ago, Mr Dee said:

Luck cannot be created. What you described is fundamentally sound play assisted by hard work. That doesn’t create luck, it just provides better opportunities to be successful or, be unsuccessful if something out of their control intervenes. 

Luck - success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions.

Believe me, Dee... Luck can be created by hard work & preparation.  That is what I believe. 

38 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

It just came to me. Along with another old cliché, "You can't control everything so control the things that you can. Like how you play." Actually, I think that cliché about luck does explain a lot. I think great players & great teams create their own luck. They have such unwavering belief in themselves, their teammates & their coaches that when things get tough in a game they believe that they can't lose. Maybe not always but even when they lose they still believe. And they win more than than they lose because of that belief or mindset. How many times have we seen bad teams fold when the going gets tough? They don't have a belief system of winning & it's  is not part of a bad team's culture. 

these are not examples of luck.

None of the above have any effect on whether a RB slips on a cut back changing a 25 yrd run to a 2 yard loss. 

None of the above change a punt's crazy bounce from a coffin corner kick to a dead bounce. 

 

13 hours ago, J5V said:

You've made some good points. To me, it's all about mental toughness. 

Concerning luck, I'm reminded of a Gary Player quote that went "The more I practice, the luckier I get".

That's a good quote and so true.  My daughter plays hockey and I keep telling her there is no secret ingredient. Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard, and talent that works hard is unstoppable

2 hours ago, Ripper said:

That's a good quote and so true.  My daughter plays hockey and I keep telling her there is no secret ingredient. Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard, and talent that works hard is unstoppable

That is a very good ideal to instill in your children.

 

I usually say to my kids "Hard Work trumps Talent".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh yeah... riders suck....

 

 

 

😁

Edited September 25, 20187 yr by wanna-b-fanboy

Luck is like God. You either believe or you don't and their is no proof of either.

Good and bad luck balance out since they are both governed by chance, they will eventually cancel each other out. 

9 hours ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

these are not examples of luck.

None of the above have any effect on whether a RB slips on a cut back changing a 25 yrd run to a 2 yard loss. 

None of the above change a punt's crazy bounce from a coffin corner kick to a dead bounce. 

 

You are correct, luck has nothing to do with any of these events.  If football was broken down to it's minutiae of motion and forces no action would be found to be random, physics could explain every action of the ball completely.  Without a detailed description or understanding of these forces people conveniently attribute these events to "luck" or "the hand of God", neither of which is real.  

10 hours ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

these are not examples of luck.

None of the above have any effect on whether a RB slips on a cut back changing a 25 yrd run to a 2 yard loss. 

None of the above change a punt's crazy bounce from a coffin corner kick to a dead bounce. 

 

Well, now you're nitpicking. If a ball bounces left it's good luck? If right it's bad luck? What if it bounces straight back then no luck? If someone says the Bombers are unlucky then I say they need to practice harder, prepare harder & play harder than the other team. If it's about talent then I can accept we lose because we don't have enough talent. Or the talent we have is overrated,.

16 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

 If someone says the Bombers are unlucky then I say they need to practice harder, prepare harder & play harder than the other team. 

I agree, you  get better talent, work hard plan carefully all to minimize the effects of "the will of the football gods".

I agree with you totally on that point. I was just pointing out that those examples you mentioned weren't luck.