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At this point, in trying to get any kind of a "win" the Republican "leadership"  Trump, Pence, O'Connell along with the ole Tea baggers like Rand Paul.....are pretty busy at work.   Belittling, t

5 minutes ago, bustamente said:

One party is actively trying to suppress the vote with many that don't see Biden as President, the other party is not and see Biden as President of all Americans

But the VP kissed the second gentleman with a mask on. Three days of coverage on Fox. 

 

Gaetz, the pedophile, is still on the judiciary committee while he's being investigated. No one on the made up "news" networks is even covering it. That's the GOP. That's the right. 

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1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

The Dems are EXACTLY the same. Are you some kind of noob to politics. You are dreaming in technicolor if your think that the likes of Biden and co. aren't behaving just as despicably as the GOP has.

Honestly, give your bias a rest. Pelosi led a witch hunt for years against Trump doing exactly the same thing. That's politics in 2021. Don't be so naive to think the left are some kind of virtue signallers. The far right and the far left factions of both parties are a disaster.

I do not know where you are getting your information, but you are way off base. Admittedly, there is more of a theoretical difference between the Dems and the GOP, but Trump's actions are far beyond anything attempted by any previous president- even the Bushes, Nixon and Reagan never tried to use the military to overturn an election result, or openly supported fascists and racists, or encouraged a coup attempt, or openly supported pedophiles, or boasted about sexually assaulting women, or subverted the DOJ. Trump is a self-admitted sexual predator, a malignant narcissist and a sadist. If you think that there is a precedent for this kind of behaviour in the GOP, let alone the Dems, you live in a different world.

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1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

It is a terribly sad state of affairs when we have a scandal ridden federal government that has proven to be borderline incompetent in it's handling of the pandemic and the CDN politics thread is 180 pages compared to US politics, that quite frankly, are none of our concern reaches close to 900. I guess if your guy is no good then draw the attention away...

Maybe the opposition here in Canada should do a better job with its so-called "leaders," eh? From Howdy Doody Milkman to Doublespeak Tool... That party is basically in shambles while still somehow grifting its diehard supporters. Denying science, spreading misinformation, and being disingenuous has undoubtedly thrown a fair share of fuel onto the ongoing pandemic situation in Canada.

Sure, the Liberals have their warts and Trudeau is by far no exception in that regard, but of course you'd cry about him and his party in a thread not related to it. Weird how you rarely, if ever, crap on the CPC with the same enthusiasm.

If you don't think US politics affect us here in Canada, why are you here in this thread pulling logical fallacies out of your ass?

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Exposé reveals Trump’s 2020 election conspiracy was part of a plan cooked up in a Texas airplane hangar in 2018
   
Two years before the 2020 election, the conspiracy that Donald Trump won the election was part of a plot cooked up by a Texas Republican businessman, reported a Washington Post exposé.

In a shocking report, the Post revealed Russell J. Ramsland Jr. pitched an idea that "seemed rooted in evidence."

The theory was that "voting-machine audit logs — lines of codes and timestamps that document the machines' activities — contained indications of vote manipulation." There was just one problem, they didn't have a candidate to test the theory.

"We had to find the right candidate," said former Ramsland ally Laura Pressley. "We had to find one who knew they won."

The problem was that in 2020 most races were clear, even the presidential race. U.S. Rep Pete Sessions (R-TX) wanted nothing to do with it, nor did state Sen. Don Huffins (R). But Donald Trump didn't want to lose and he certainly didn't want to lose by the amount he did in 2020.

The meeting inside the airplane hanger had a "clandestine air," about it, the Post described. "Guests were asked to leave their cellphones outside before assembling in a windowless room. A member of Ramsland's team purporting to be a 'white-hat hacker' identified himself only by a code name."

"The enduring myth that the 2020 election was rigged was not one claim by one person," said the report. "It was many claims stacked one atop the other, repeated by a phalanx of Trump allies."

Exposé reveals Trump’s 2020 election conspiracy was part of a plan cooked up in a Texas airplane hangar in 2018 - Alternet.org

Indeed, it was a coordinated effort among many Trump allies and lawyers. They weren't perpetrated by experts or insiders, as the report explained, it was conservative activists and Trump pals who pushed a company called the Allied Security Operations Group (ASOG) to "find" the evidence "where none existed."

"Ramsland and others associated with ASOG played key roles in spreading the claims of fraud," said the Post. After fringe Republican Louie Gohmert was "briefed" by the ASOG he began promoting the conspiracies. Then they became part of Sidney "Kraken" Powell's lawsuits and Rudy Giuliani's efforts. Fox News has seized on the reports as well, hungry for Trump supporter ratings as the outgoing president attacked the network for calling Arizona for Biden on election night.

"During that period, Trump was hyper-focused on making the case that the election had been rigged," reported the Post, citing former White House aides. "He would listen to 'literally anyone' who had a theory about it, in the words of one former senior administration official."

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2 hours ago, GCn20 said:

The Dems are EXACTLY the same. Are you some kind of noob to politics. You are dreaming in technicolor if your think that the likes of Biden and co. aren't behaving just as despicably as the GOP has.

 

As far as promoting, protecting and preserving democracy goes, this is just about the most dangerous rhetoric someone can spew.  "They" are not all the same and government isn't necessarily evil. 

It is also patently false.

Not a noob - old enough to remember when Reagan started the slide by telling Americans that government can't help them.

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2 hours ago, Wideleft said:

As far as promoting, protecting and preserving democracy goes, this is just about the most dangerous rhetoric someone can spew.  "They" are not all the same and government isn't necessarily evil. 

It is also patently false.

Not a noob - old enough to remember when Reagan started the slide by telling Americans that government can't help them.

His government certainly had no intentions of helping and did not. In fact, the Reagan administration allowed the CIA to sell drugs into the US and use the money to buy weapons for the Contras in defiance of both American and international law. His people brokered the regulatory change that allowed the Saving and Loan scandal to bilk Americans out of their savings and transfer some 80 billion dollars into the pockets of predatory financial  wheeler-dealers,

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5 hours ago, GCn20 said:

The Dems are EXACTLY the same. Are you some kind of noob to politics. You are dreaming in technicolor if your think that the likes of Biden and co. aren't behaving just as despicably as the GOP has.

Honestly, give your bias a rest. Pelosi led a witch hunt for years against Trump doing exactly the same thing. That's politics in 2021. Don't be so naive to think the left are some kind of virtue signallers. The far right and the far left factions of both parties are a disaster.

Ok please show your work on these claims. Let's see specific examples, with legit sources, of all the things the democrats are doing that are exactly the same as what Republicans have been getting away with. 

 

I'll wait.

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Republicans are preparing to steal the next Presidential election.

"If Cheney must be axed because she will not lie, then what will happen if Republicans take control of Congress in 2022 and are called upon to certify the Electoral College in 2024? How many Raffenspergers will there be? How many will insist, as Pence did, that they must do what the Constitution demands? How many will preserve any semblance of the rule of law and the primacy of truth?

I’m going to guess none. Any who would will have been purged by that time, on both the state and the national level."

digby

 

It is mind boggling that as the world heats up past the point of no return, prominent people in power, can think only of helping billionaires, and putting down black people. and will trample their country to do it, while being cheered by  millions.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Mark F said:

Republicans are preparing to steal the next Presidential election.

"If Cheney must be axed because she will not lie, then what will happen if Republicans take control of Congress in 2022 and are called upon to certify the Electoral College in 2024? How many Raffenspergers will there be? How many will insist, as Pence did, that they must do what the Constitution demands? How many will preserve any semblance of the rule of law and the primacy of truth?

I’m going to guess none. Any who would will have been purged by that time, on both the state and the national level."

digby

 

It is mind boggling that as the world heats up past the point of no return, prominent people in power, can think only of helping billionaires, and putting down black people. and will trample their country to do it, while being cheered by  millions.

 

 

What blows my mind is that people can see this naked authoritarian power grab and shrug their shoulders and think "both sides are the same"

Truly do not understand 

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49 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

What blows my mind is that people can see this naked authoritarian power grab and shrug their shoulders and think "both sides are the same"

Truly do not understand 

When some(not all) people say both sides are the same, both are bad and go on to diss only one side they are really just deflecting attention away from how they are really wired i.e support maga and what it stands for. Own it.

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I think people say  " both sides are the same " because historically they are not all that wrong. Left, right and center have all been guilty of greasing their and their cohorts  pockets, pandering to their base......And all the other stuff that many politicians fall into. The trouble is what we are seeing in the US is not  the norm. It's outside anything we have seen in many many years. It's an attempt to totally unseat the Democratic process.  It's no longer Republican vs Democrat..  It's Trumpism/Q anon/ nutbar vs democracy.  It's not comparable to anything that's happening here in Canada. I despise our current PM but I've never met a Conservative or NDP who says he didn't win the election. Or who wants to change the rules to guarantee he can't win again. Perhaps the " both sides the same " people just don't see or appreciate  the difference in what's happening to the south.

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1 hour ago, the watcher said:

I think people say  " both sides are the same " because historically they are not all that wrong. Left, right and center have all been guilty of greasing their and their cohorts  pockets, pandering to their base......And all the other stuff that many politicians fall into. The trouble is what we are seeing in the US is not  the norm. It's outside anything we have seen in many many years. It's an attempt to totally unseat the Democratic process.  It's no longer Republican vs Democrat..  It's Trumpism/Q anon/ nutbar vs democracy.  It's not comparable to anything that's happening here in Canada. I despise our current PM but I've never met a Conservative or NDP who says he didn't win the election. Or who wants to change the rules to guarantee he can't win again. Perhaps the " both sides the same " people just don't see or appreciate  the difference in what's happening to the south.

The problem is that historically, this really isn't true either as far as implementing real change and progress goes.  Republicans would not have implemented the Civil Rights Act.  Canadian Conservatives would not have implemented Canadian Medicare (Harper campaigned on implementing 2-tier health care). 

"By 1964 the pro-Medicare forces in the country were riding the crest of public opinion during a period when the political culture was moving to the left. The political alignment of national parties saw six years of minority governments over three elections between 1962 and 1968, and this favoured those political forces attempting to move the country in a more progressive direction. The NDP was growing and this strengthened left Liberals who argued that their party must protect their left flank. This in turn encouraged the red Tories within the Progressive Conservatives, who argued that the party must move left to remain electorally competitive. All of this was occurring during a minority situation when an election might occur at any time and no party wanted to be caught on the wrong side of a popular issue like public Medicare.

It took fierce struggles within both the Liberal and Progressive Conservative parliamentary parties, but in the end the party whips forced the right wing into submission. The National Medical Care Insurance Act was passed in the House of Commons on December 8, 1966, by an overwhelming vote of 177 to 2."  https://canadiandimension.com/articles/view/the-birth-of-medicare

The nature of politics is to target minor malfeasances and the media is partially to blame for playing along and energizing small stories when good policy needs more attention.

There are some politicians in all parties that push boundaries and break laws, but there is no question that the big picture proves which ideologies lead to which policies.

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8 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

The problem is that historically, this really isn't true either as far as implementing real change and progress goes.  Republicans would not have implemented the Civil Rights Act.  Canadian Conservatives would not have implemented the Canadian Medicare (Harper campaigned on implementing 2-tier health care). 

"By 1964 the pro-Medicare forces in the country were riding the crest of public opinion during a period when the political culture was moving to the left. The political alignment of national parties saw six years of minority governments over three elections between 1962 and 1968, and this favoured those political forces attempting to move the country in a more progressive direction. The NDP was growing and this strengthened left Liberals who argued that their party must protect their left flank. This in turn encouraged the red Tories within the Progressive Conservatives, who argued that the party must move left to remain electorally competitive. All of this was occurring during a minority situation when an election might occur at any time and no party wanted to be caught on the wrong side of a popular issue like public Medicare.

It took fierce struggles within both the Liberal and Progressive Conservative parliamentary parties, but in the end the party whips forced the right wing into submission. The National Medical Care Insurance Act was passed in the House of Commons on December 8, 1966, by an overwhelming vote of 177 to 2."  https://canadiandimension.com/articles/view/the-birth-of-medicare

The nature of politics is to target minor malfeasances and the media is partially to blame for playing along and energizing small stories when good policy needs more attention.

There are some politicians in all parties that push boundaries and break laws, but there is no question that the big picture proves which ideologies lead to which policies.

I think you were missing my point.I dont disagree at all with what you are saying. Who we elect does make a big difference in the direction we go. My point was those who say they are all the same have a certain amount of credence.That at times many politicians lower the bar.   The very fact that Medicare came in here shows that our system works. Our ability and willingness to step outside of the main 2 parties has made huge contributions to the nature and structure of Canadian society. The NDP,  the Quebec separatist movement  , the Reform party, Social Credit party have all , changed  our political scene and our society. But none of this has anything to do with the anti democratic movement in the US. It is different than all the arguments over ideologies that have preceded. There is no convincing middle ground people over  it rather eliminating the votes of those who don't agree... My point was that you can't compare what is going on now in the US with what we see here in Canada now.

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3 minutes ago, the watcher said:

I think you were missing my point.I dont disagree at all with what you are saying. Who we elect does make a big difference in the direction we go. My point was those who say they are all the same have a certain amount of credence.That at times many politicians lower the bar.   The very fact that Medicare came in here shows that our system works. Our ability and willingness to step outside of the main 2 parties has made huge contributions to the nature and structure of Canadian society. The NDP,  the Quebec separatist movement  , the Reform party, Social Credit party have all , changed  our political scene and our society. But none of this has anything to do with the anti democratic movement in the US. It is different than all the arguments over ideologies that have preceded. There is no convincing middle ground people over  it rather eliminating the votes of those who don't agree... My point was that you can't compare what is going on now in the US with what we see here in Canada now.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but as far as your last point, I have one word - "Wexit".

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1 minute ago, Wideleft said:

I'm not convinced a lot of their followers are against that idea.  Far right parallels are everywhere.

I'll give you that.  It's a fine line between seeing far right boogie men everywhere and ignoring real far right threats. There is no denying it does exist here.

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1 minute ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

I look forward to the fox segment decrying cancel culture about this... lol. 

 

Its kind of frightening that the GQP has ousted a politician named Cheney because they were not Republican enough... lol I mean that is their reason... but the GQP is really off the rails now... 

Cheney is completely correct but it's wonderful to see such a murderous person tossed from the party her dad used to push his personal agenda. The whole lot of them are horrible, murderous thugs. Burn the whole thing down. 

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16 minutes ago, JCon said:

Cheney is completely correct but it's wonderful to see such a murderous person tossed from the party her dad used to push his personal agenda. The whole lot of them are horrible, murderous thugs. Burn the whole thing down. 

Yeah, bitter sweet... but yeah- I throw up in mouth a little every time I have to defend her.

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Just now, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Yeah, bitter sweet... but yeah- I throw up in mouth a little every time I have to defend her.

I'm stick only to defending her on this point and this point alone. Pretending that the election was stolen is absolutely mindboggling stupid but, considering MAGA, it's on brand. 

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55 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

I look forward to the fox segment decrying cancel culture about this... lol. 

 

Its kind of frightening that the GQP has ousted a politician named Cheney because they were not Republican enough... lol I mean that is their reason... but the GQP is really off the rails now... 

and YET Marjorie Taylor Greene remains

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