Lets see if we can keep this thread a little more civil.

I found this interview very interesting.  A lot of soft balls thrown at Trump, he explained his back pedalling on his more extreme issues as a lot of his claims as opening bids for negotiation purposes.  Which .. whatever .. I still think that those are insincere claims he used to get elected.

He does now come across way more presidential then he did prior to the election.  A lot of his noise, yelling, and rhetoric has been scaled back.

Do respect this one though:

Quote

 

Lesley Stahl: Are you gonna take the salary, the president’s salary?

Donald Trump: Well, I’ve never commented on this, but the answer is no. I think I have to by law take $1, so I’ll take $1 a year. But it’s a -- I don’t even know what it is.

Donald Trump: Do you know what the salary is?

Lesley Stahl: $400,000 you’re giving up.

Donald Trump: No, I’m not gonna take the salary. I’m not taking it.

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-donald-trump-family-melania-ivanka-lesley-stahl/

The big thing is that this isn’t the first time they tried to cover up a trump phone call.  House is going to go after the others.  

momentum will build.  Will be tough for GOP to ignore.   Trump practically implicated Pence also. And surely implicated Barr.  

Senate might have to turf Trump to protect Pence.  Or trump will fire Pence.  A similar thing happened to Nixon where his VP was under impeachment risk and to avoid both of them being removed, he replied the VP with Ford and then made a deal to resign for a pardon 

trump could do the same.  But he’s at more risk then Nixon. He has state investigations plus his kids are at risk.  

4 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

The big thing is that this isn’t the first time they tried to cover up a trump phone call.  House is going to go after the others.  

momentum will build.  Will be tough for GOP to ignore.   Trump practically implicated Pence also. And surely implicated Barr.  

Senate might have to turf Trump to protect Pence.  Or trump will fire Pence.  A similar thing happened to Nixon where his VP was under impeachment risk and to avoid both of them being removed, he replied the VP with Ford and then made a deal to resign for a pardon 

trump could do the same.  But he’s at more risk then Nixon. He has state investigations plus his kids are at risk.  

Also, a Senate delegation led by Barry Goldwater marched into the Oval Office....and flat out told Nixon, that he would be impeached in the Senate, period. 

Of course, that was when Republicans on the Hill, actually had some balls.....

Edited September 26, 20196 yr by do or die

Oh and retaliation on a whistleblower is illegal.  Trump just threatened it. Add that charge to his impeachment. 

Seems a forgone conclusion now, trump will become only the third person in history to be impeached.   The real question is what will the senate do and the more info comes out the less sure we can be that they will fall in line behind the criminal president. 

 

Rudy is already threatening to flip! Hahaha

 

Been reading the transcript of the whistle blower complaint - a number of things stick out:

 

1.  Ukraine was pressured to play ball on Trump's Biden request

“Multiple U.S. officials” had told him or her that a phone call or meeting between Trump and Zelensky “would depend on whether Zelensky showed willingness to ‘play ball.’” At this point, it was “made clear” to Ukrainian officials that Trump did not want to meet Zelensky “until he saw how Zelensky ‘chose to act’ in office.”  The complaint twice uses that phrase, in the second instance referring to the fact that a planned May 2019 trip to Ukraine by Vice President Mike Pence to attend Zelensky’s inauguration was cancelled after Trump “instructed” Pence not to go. Energy Secretary Rick Perry went instead.

2.  The money (aid) was used as leverage

Ukrainian officials knew U.S. aid could be in jeopardy. No-one disputes that around $400 million in aid that Congress had voted to supply to Ukraine was delayed by the administration. But the complaint affirms prior media reporting that Trump had at one point ordered the suspension of U.S. “security assistance” to Ukraine. The complaint notes two specific dates, July 23 and July 26, when officials from the Office and Management and Budget allegedly “stated explicitly that the instruction to suspend this assistance had come directly from the President, but they still were unaware of a policy rationale.”

3.  Uncle Rudy was knee deep in it.

Rudy Giuliani, has already acknowledged pressing Ukraine to investigate the Bidens.  The whistle blower alleges that “multiple U.S. officials” were “deeply concerned by what they viewed as Mr. Giuliani’s circumvention of national security decision-making processes to engage with Ukrainian officials and relay messages back and forth between Kyiv and the President.”

4.  White House engaged in a cover up

The White House sought to hide the word-for-word transcript of the July 25th phone call with Zelensky,. This took the form of removing the “electronic transcript” of the call from the computer system where such transcripts would usually be stored and transferring it to a separate, more secure and more restricted system.  (cover up)

Other transcripts involving Trump had been placed into a secure system, for political reasons rather than because of legitimate national security concerns.  Those officials said it was “not the first time” that transcripts had been placed into a “codeword-level” system — and that this had been done “solely for the purpose of protecting politically sensitive rather than national security sensitive — information.”

 

 

12 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

 

Or, to be fair....they would just be exiled to a sh---ole country.

....making straw hats, with the money going directly into Trump family accounts......

43 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

 

He, of course, is just a poorly dressed mobster. 

Edited September 26, 20196 yr by JCon

28 minutes ago, do or die said:

Been reading the transcript of the whistle blower complaint - a number of things stick out:

 

1.  Ukraine was pressured to play ball on Trump's Biden request

“Multiple U.S. officials” had told him or her that a phone call or meeting between Trump and Zelensky “would depend on whether Zelensky showed willingness to ‘play ball.’” At this point, it was “made clear” to Ukrainian officials that Trump did not want to meet Zelensky “until he saw how Zelensky ‘chose to act’ in office.”  The complaint twice uses that phrase, in the second instance referring to the fact that a planned May 2019 trip to Ukraine by Vice President Mike Pence to attend Zelensky’s inauguration was cancelled after Trump “instructed” Pence not to go. Energy Secretary Rick Perry went instead.

2.  The money (aid) was used as leverage

Ukrainian officials knew U.S. aid could be in jeopardy. No-one disputes that around $400 million in aid that Congress had voted to supply to Ukraine was delayed by the administration. But the complaint affirms prior media reporting that Trump had at one point ordered the suspension of U.S. “security assistance” to Ukraine. The complaint notes two specific dates, July 23 and July 26, when officials from the Office and Management and Budget allegedly “stated explicitly that the instruction to suspend this assistance had come directly from the President, but they still were unaware of a policy rationale.”

3.  Uncle Rudy was knee deep in it.

Rudy Giuliani, has already acknowledged pressing Ukraine to investigate the Bidens.  The whistle blower alleges that “multiple U.S. officials” were “deeply concerned by what they viewed as Mr. Giuliani’s circumvention of national security decision-making processes to engage with Ukrainian officials and relay messages back and forth between Kyiv and the President.”

4.  White House engaged in a cover up

The White House sought to hide the word-for-word transcript of the July 25th phone call with Zelensky,. This took the form of removing the “electronic transcript” of the call from the computer system where such transcripts would usually be stored and transferring it to a separate, more secure and more restricted system.  (cover up)

Other transcripts involving Trump had been placed into a secure system, for political reasons rather than because of legitimate national security concerns.  Those officials said it was “not the first time” that transcripts had been placed into a “codeword-level” system — and that this had been done “solely for the purpose of protecting politically sensitive rather than national security sensitive — information.”

 

 

#4 is to me the most compelling part of this. All the other stuff was already leaked, just not in full detail. And to acknowledge a cover-up because of the damage politically that could be done if it got out? Yikes. The public may not want to wade through 400 page Mueller reports or understand the nuance of pressure being brought to get dirt on a rival and if that is an abuse of power, but they get cover-ups. The lasting damage to Nixon in the public eye was not the break-in but the erased/missing phone calls. "What was in those missing minutes? Must've been fatal to him or he wouldn't have buried it".

NYT under criticism for releasing whistleblower info. Especially in the wake of trump’s threats. 

 

54 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Rudy is already threatening to flip! Hahaha

 

Flip? He's the hero of this story.

 

 

I’m really looking to some future hbo series about the trump presidency.  Hopefully  Aaron Sorkin will produce it!

Ole Rudy is now running around, saying that all his actions in this Ukraine thing.....were with the knowledge and sanction of the State Department.  In short, throwing Mike Pompeo under the bus.  

 

2 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

I’m really looking to some future hbo series about the trump presidency.  Hopefully  Aaron Sorkin will produce it!

Yeah but it's too crazy, people won't accept it. Unbelievable.

Just now, 17to85 said:

Yeah but it's too crazy, people won't accept it. Unbelievable.

Stranger than fiction.....

The spin on the "transcript" that totally clears Trump.....according to Daily Caller and Breitbart is something else, as well

6 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Republican:

 

"Concerned" for a GOP politician is much like "thoughts and prayers" -- a meaningless catchphrase of performative, placating empathy.  See also "troubling."

Edited September 26, 20196 yr by johnzo

(Delete, missed that the Atlantic Rudy article was posted earlier)

Edited September 26, 20196 yr by johnzo

27 minutes ago, johnzo said:

"Concerned" for a GOP politician is much like "thoughts and prayers" -- a meaningless catchphrase of performative, placating empathy.

I feel your pain...

 

3 hours ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

He's the hero of this story.

rudy may be working on  building an insanity defence.

rudy "strawberries" giuliani.

kind of a political antonio brown move.

Edited September 26, 20196 yr by Mark F

Unfortunately the identity of the whistle blower will probably come out, the New York Times reporting that he is a CIA agent who was tasked to work in the WH, Trumps administration could very well know who it is.

So... watching a bit of fox news... holy ****- it's like they are in a different dimension. It is insane how they twist... and twist and flat out lie.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/fox-primetime-hosts-have-choice-words-for-democrats-on-impeachment-push

 

Seriously... it is crazy how much of a reach they need to take to... wow. it's astounding. 

2 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

So... watching a bit of fox news... holy ****- it's like they are in a different dimension. It is insane how they twist... and twist and flat out lie.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/fox-primetime-hosts-have-choice-words-for-democrats-on-impeachment-push

 

Seriously... it is crazy how much of a reach they need to take to... wow. it's astounding. 

Especially when you compare this to Clinton’s impeachment.  It’s one thing to apply partisan spin but the GOP and their media pals are hoping Americans are really stupid.  Let’s hope that’s not true. 

One thing is certain, trump is scared. 

 

the formerly loyal Trump underlings are in open warfare.

It has literally gotten to the point of

"If I'm goin down, I'm takin you with me"

No doubt they all have something on each other.