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Batman v Superman Spoiler Thread


Logan007
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Yeah what is Lex's motivation?  That he's crazy?  That he wants to take over the world and believes Superman stands in his way?  He's, what, 30?  He's a "dot com" billionaire with government contracts obviously.  What does he really want? 

Snyder did a lousy job showing us anyone's motivation really.  Batman's was the most obvious but even then we werent made to believe it.  As Alfred keeps arguing with him, the point is true - why do you want to fight this guy.  The reasoning "if there is a 1% chance he's bad we have to assume it's a certainty" is the stupidest thing ever uttered.  Everyone is at least a 1% chance of being bad.  If they want to show a Batman driven to the brink of insanity, then show us that.   But dont pretend this is a brilliant Bruce Wayne with a reasonable perspective.

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my guess is they will write it up as Lex was doing some ground work for the on coming Darkseid invasion and take out threats.  He's always been known in movies, comics and cartoons to have backdoor deals in place with omnipotent evil forces, that'll ensure him safety and ultimately something to rule after they kill off a good chunk of the planet.  If the ending was a precursor to the Justice League movie, then even without a Batman premonition, Lex is aware of the coming darkness too.

I would have rather seen the  President Luthor then bad guy ***** Luthor tbh, but I hope they recast his role one way or another for the next movie.

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9 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

my guess is they will write it up as Lex was doing some ground work for the on coming Darkseid invasion and take out threats.  He's always been known in movies, comics and cartoons to have backdoor deals in place with omnipotent evil forces, that'll ensure him safety and ultimately something to rule after they kill off a good chunk of the planet.  If the ending was a precursor to the Justice League movie, then even without a Batman premonition, Lex is aware of the coming darkness too.

I would have rather seen the  President Luthor then bad guy ***** Luthor tbh, but I hope they recast his role one way or another for the next movie.

A Luthor as President (or in the midst of a Presidential election) would have been good, if the actor was strong and, well, Presidential.  It would have been timely too.  A missed opportunity. 

Speaking of which, the voice of the President was Patrick Wilson (Watchmen) and Snyder hints he might show up in the future.  I like him a lot.  He would have played a great good guy opposite an evil charismatic politician Luthor.

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well he does become the president at some point,  both in the comics and some shows like smallville,  actually in smallville one of the few lasting images i have of lex was when they showed him the future,  and he would become president, but the world would be destroyed at his feet

maxresdefault.jpg

I didnt like when Lex would team up with the Justice league as president, but it certainly handcuffed them from going after him

Edited by Taynted_Fayth
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thinking a little bit more as to why lex would want batman to get that meta human info,  other then the flash clearly stopping a robbery, there is no clear indication that Aquaman and Cyborg are "good guys", only that both could potentially be threats with supernatural abilities.  I get the impression the photo of Wonder Woman in belgium in 1918 suggests she had a part in the victory of WWI, and he sort of met her a few times previous to realizing Diana was WW, but no real indication if she was good or not.  Could this have been a subtle way of Lex trying to rile Batman up against others similar to his vendetta against Superman? They might not possess Superman level powers, but powers all the same.

Other then the final scene with Lex and Batman in the cell, they really didnt have much camera time together, and Lex even says, We finally meet.  I have to wonder if Lex doesnt initially think he could have an ally in Bruce, both being billionaire philanthropists with an obsession with the "freaks" out there and the smarts to take them on.  Could Lex's plan have been a litmus test of Batman as much as it was a chance to kill superman and/or rid himself of the batman threat.

I watched a batman and superman movie not that long ago with Darkseid in it, and Darkseid is actually impressed by Batman, especially since he's merely a human. But he's willing to get down and dirty to win, something superman and the others have moral restrictions with while fighting for good and justice.  

All just trying to read between the lines a little,  nothin more lol

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22 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Am I the only one that didnt like this Alfred?  I thought the lack of father figure to that relationship was a downer.

I agree with you... I thought Jeremy Irons did a great job but he seemed too young and "hip" to be Alfred... he needs to be more of a father figure, like you mentioned...

17 hours ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

I would have rather seen the  President Luthor then bad guy ***** Luthor tbh, but I hope they recast his role one way or another for the next movie.

According to IMDB, he is not one of the confirmed actors yet...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0974015/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast

Edited by bearpants
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These guys have the right idea (from Latino Review)

Now a couple of fans are attempting to take matters into their own hands, by starting petitions that entreat Warner Bros to dump director Zack Snyder from future DCEU involvement.
 
One is aimed specifically at getting him immediately replaced from JUSTICE LEAGUE- PART 1:
 
And the other seeks to boot him from the DCEU entirely:  Read more at: https://tr.im/pmlXP
 
On the bochinche end of things, our own Kellvin revealed on yesterday's LOS FANBOYS podcast that he's heard whispers that WB has at least considered the idea of delaying JUSTICE LEAGUE long enough for a changing of the guard. But that is the tiniest of rumors, and probably one of the most far-fetched things I've heard in a long, long time. So take that with a cup of salt. Read more at: https://tr.im/pmlXP
Edited by The Unknown Poster
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It'll be tough for them to justify letting snyder go. even tho many of us have issue with the way he does these movies, there's still plenty of positive feed back and the bottom line is looking good,  that might be all WB brass cares about when looking ahead.  If it was a flop with plenty of criticism then that changes everything

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I personally really enjoyed it. I liked that it was dark and gritty. Especially considering the ending. I didn't want that goofy, hopeful stuff in this. And I thought the few jokes they cracked where....ok. But not needed. Though the plot holes are pretty glaring...I'm not sure if it's been mentioned. But not a chance in hell Batman just tosses that spear away and leaves it there.

I thought they did a good job in the luthor story. Though his motivation is a bit of a mystery besides him just being bat **** crazy and power hungry. (which is what lex luthor is) but this was just his beginning. He's just a "kid" compared to the other two, hence his remake into the bald lex at the end. I'm guessing we see a stronger Lex in JL.

I loved the fact that they killed off Superman. Yes I know, he's not really dead...but that's how the story line goes. He comes back, i'm guessing they'll rush that timeline a bit for the movies sake but who knows. Justice league might take place multiple years in the future from BvS. I'm just glad they didn't string this out and make another few movies of the same old Superman. We've had that. We've had too much of that as far as I'm concerned. I want to see what happens in a world without superman. I really hope they don't rush him back in JL maybe an appearance at the very end to save the day somehow or something. But I'd be ok if Superman was left out completely in the first movies main plot.

I was really worried they would **** up Doomsday, I thought going in that they were going to kill him off with everyone living etc. Was pleasantly surprised they got him to kill superman. His creation, overall look and eye beams where off. But I wasn't expecting a movie to portray him perfectly. A little bummed that he's dead.....but whatever, on to the next great villains.

As for the Batman dream sequence. I thought they tried to make it seem like the Flash is talking about superman, but I think it will end up being about Lex. Who will be a villain going forward and somehow be involved in bringing Darksied to earth. Likely before Supermans return.  Or at least they make it seem like that (lexs speech at the end about him coming etc). How Louis plays into that I'm not sure.

Overall, I thought it was great. Basically what I expected/wanted with a few exceptions. But I will definitely be adding it to my superman collection.

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The Hollywood Reporter reports WB is not too happy about BvS:

"The biggest problem is that it is not turning [DC] into Marvel," says an executive from another studio. "The audience has communicated, as have the critics." They're referring to the film's abysmal reviews, mediocre ratings from fans, and the precipitous box office drop the film took after its first full day in theaters. While competitors feel the film may turn a profit, it will "hardly [...] be the money gusher studios hope for when they pour massive resources into making a giant tentpole."
 
An agent tells THR that this sort of situation is inexcusable. They say that the film features "two of the most iconic characters in history," yet won't come close to the $1.67 billion that a film like JURASSIC WORLD made last year- a sequel/relaunch that came 14 years after JURASSIC PARK 3 effectively killed the franchise. "You can't tell me BATMAN V SUPERMAN is so much less valuable [than JURASSIC WORLD]" they said.
 
The report says that Warner Bros was caught off guard by the response to BvS, which has led to a flurry of rumors that the studio was thinking of doing a course correction for their DC franchis Read more at: https://tr.im/VmerZ
Edited by The Unknown Poster
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Here is a great summary of everything wrong with Superman

http://www.latino-review.com/news/dear-zack-snyder

I agree with it completely.  I had this discussion with some friends while we tried to pinpoint what was lacking in Superman because it was sort of difficult to do.  But at the time I compared him to Reeve's Superman and said he just doesnt have any hope.  He talks about hope but never shows it.

The other thing the link hits is that Reeve's Superman was truly alone, or at least felt that way.  He was an outsider in every sense.  He kept a distance from Lois because he felt he could never endanger her.  He sacrificed joy and happiness for the greater good of his purpose.  When he tried to be with her, it led to disaster. 

In Snyder's version, he immediately falls for Lois and they are together.  He isnt making any sacrifices.  While he seems to struggle with what his purpose is, there is no depth to that.  Reeve's Superman struggled with his purpose when his father died but when he went to the Fortress and discovered who he was, it suddenly all became clear to him, what his purpose was.  He never wavered until the time with Lois and then realised it was wrong.

The goofy aspects to Reeve's Clark Kent was important to show a dichotomy between who he really was (Superman/Kal-El) and who he pretended to be (Kent).  Those moments where, in the Kent costume, he'd get serious or show a different emotion in a subtle way, were powerful.  Snyder's Superman is just Superman.  All the time.  One good scene in BvS was Ma Kent telling Superman he doesnt owe the world anything.  But it was kind of a fleeting moment.  And if Pa Kent had been more supportive in MoS, that difference in opinion between the two parents would have been more interesting.  The fact Pa Kent told Clark to let people die rather than use his powers was silly.  The Pa death scene was awful.  It was reminiscent of Uncle Ben's death in that it was completely preventable by the hero but he chose not to do so.  In Spider-man that choice ALWAYS mattered and impacted Peter.  In MoS, it never did.  In Reeve's version, the fact Pa died of a heart attack was critically important.  Because for all his power, Superman couldn't save him.  It was a lesson.  Snyder's Superman doesnt learn any lessons.

If I recall from the comics, the Superman/Batman relationship worked because they truly respected each other but didnt particularly like each other.  Superman still loathed Batman's methods.  Batman thought Superman could do more but was too boy-scout.  Yet they trusted each other.  In Snyder's film we get the manipulated and irrational fight and then they are friends.  We get none of the actual interesting relationship.

The link makes a great point that Marvel took their "one dimensional boy scout", Captain America and really made him relevant in a way that Superman should be.  Captain America is more Superman than Superman is.

Rant over. lol

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  • 3 months later...

Watched the film couple weeks ago the Ultimate version. Was disappointed. It started off strong, really strong at the Wayne funeral at the beginning where they buried 2 members of The Walking Dead :P but i felt that they rushed or shoehorned in the future members of the JL.

Too violent? People died. Oh poor babies. Snyder would have killed off War Machine in Captain America 3 I bet.

I love Jesse E but yeah i can see why everyone hated that choice for Lex.

Anyone seen both versions?

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14 hours ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

Watched the film couple weeks ago the Ultimate version. Was disappointed. It started off strong, really strong at the Wayne funeral at the beginning where they buried 2 members of The Walking Dead :P but i felt that they rushed or shoehorned in the future members of the JL.

Too violent? People died. Oh poor babies. Snyder would have killed off War Machine in Captain America 3 I bet.

I love Jesse E but yeah i can see why everyone hated that choice for Lex.

Anyone seen both versions?

Not yet.  Im hoping the longer version with better pacing improves it.  But I have my doubts.  Superman has been wrong from the beginning under Snyder so I dont think that can be saved.  And some of their story choices in finding the other JLA members etc were wrong, mis-placed humor etc.  Just a poor film.

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Bloated trying to do too many things at once. Misses the point of batman and the BvS fight in dark knight returns 2. Kills more innocent people then any of the bad guys in recent dc movies. Terrible choices in casting and story line. If the DCCU doesnt correct course quickly the over loaded fast paced production schedule will be crushed under its own weight. 

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