Big announcement today. Live stream from Calgary Flames website. Watch live here at the link at 3:30 pm CDT: 

 

http://video.flames.nhl.com/videocenter/console?catid=616&id=833177〈=en&navid=DL|CGY|home

This guy is putting me to sleep.

Good on Calgary. Two new professional sports facilities. Just excellent for the Flames and Stamps.

That's going to be a huge complex.  Be cool if they do it.

Details?

As of now, they're asking $200mm from the City of Calgary, and I'm pretty sure I heard Mayor Nenshi's snort of derision from all the way in Olds.....

plus expecting someone else to clean up the site, man oh man. Nenshi didn't want to use that space for sports facilities to start with, no way he agrees if the city has to clean it up AND hand over hundred of millions of dollars. 

As of now, they're asking $200mm from the City of Calgary, and I'm pretty sure I heard Mayor Nenshi's snort of derision from all the way in Olds.....

I hate that guy. Just can't stand him.

Odd, isn't it? Somehow sports franchises (corporations, really) are some sort of sacred cows and deserving of massive public funds as opposed to individuals who are reviled for being temporarily (for the most part) down on their luck.

As an example, in Detroit, the city agreed to give over $200 million plus iinfrastructure improvements of an undetermined value to the very profitable Red Wings owner (who is worth some 5.8 billion) to build a $660 million new arena. And the city did this a week after declaring bankruptcy. Sort of a reverse Robin Hood thingie.

Well, it provides jobs, brings in entertainers that want to perform at good venues, brings in tourism, makes people want to actually live there instead of moving away, etc...  So it is good for the city in the end.  Look at all the stuff they do at IGF now.

Well, it provides jobs, brings in entertainers that want to perform at good venues, brings in tourism, makes people want to actually live there instead of moving away, etc... So it is good for the city in the end. Look at all the stuff they do at IGF now.

Exactly...One Direction would have never come to Winnipeg if not for IGF

The thing is, the facilities are going to be used for a lot more than just the corps (Stamps/Flames/Roughnecks/etc) as there will be massive amateur useage, plus the jobs being created in the construction of it are MASSIVELY needed right now. Lotta skilled labourers that could use the gig. 

 

So there is a lot of positive to this....but I also understand the "No Public Money" thing, too. This thing is far from over....

200 Million plus the city cleaning up the land? Ouch... Hope it happens but.. I'm not sure it's much more than a dream right now. I will say this tho, Before IGF was eventually built and even the new Mosaic and for that matter THF... there were years upon years of talk and more talk and more talk and designs and all sorts of stuff... This is just step 1. In 5 or 6 years, maybe they actually put shovels in the ground. 

200 Million plus the city cleaning up the land? Ouch... Hope it happens but.. I'm not sure it's much more than a dream right now. I will say this tho, Before IGF was eventually built and even the new Mosaic and for that matter THF... there were years upon years of talk and more talk and more talk and designs and all sorts of stuff... This is just step 1. In 5 or 6 years, maybe they actually put shovels in the ground. 

They might have to wait that long to get Nenshi voted out of power and get someone "more favourable to the cause" voted in......

I'm not sure why some people are against public funding for these places tho, Like the star trek guy said... creates jobs, brings in lots of money for the economy. That's honestly why i never understood those who had an issue with IGF being publically  funded. Man, if people actually stepped back and look at some of the crap our tax dollars goes too,  I don't think they would be complaining about sports teams getting funding either. 

 

Pro Sports teams gives your city an identity... Man, look at the JETS, they left and a small part, a large part even of this cities identity left with them.... They were brought back and a part of our identity returned.

 

Sports is huge, does more good than harm thats for sure. If i was in charge, I'd  fund every damn arena and stadium proposal possible with tax payers money. 

I watched like 10 minutes of that video b4 i got bored as hell but the one thing, is that ken king? the one thing he kept saying over and over and over and over is... a PUBLIC fieldhouse... to be used 365 days a year. Pretty evident he was letting it be known that this is being built with the PUBLIC in mind... Yup, it's CFL stadium and a hockey arena but... it's mainly gonna be used as a Public facility...

 

Lets just break something down really quick.. Stamps play 9 home games  a year... Flames play 41 or 42 i think... Lets include playoffs and add, let's just say a nice easy round rumber..20 more dates in total....

 

51 + 20 = 71. For the remaining damn near 300 days of the year.. it's a public facility. Thought mentioning Public facility over and over was smart. 

I'm not sure why some people are against public funding for these places tho, Like the star trek guy said... creates jobs, brings in lots of money for the economy. That's honestly why i never understood those who had an issue with IGF being publically  funded. Man, if people actually stepped back and look at some of the crap our tax dollars goes too,  I don't think they would be complaining about sports teams getting funding either. 

 

Pro Sports teams gives your city an identity... Man, look at the JETS, they left and a small part, a large part even of this cities identity left with them.... They were brought back and a part of our identity returned.

 

Sports is huge, does more good than harm thats for sure. If i was in charge, I'd  fund every damn arena and stadium proposal possible with tax payers money. 

That's why I never voted for you.

200 Million plus the city cleaning up the land? Ouch... Hope it happens but.. I'm not sure it's much more than a dream right now. I will say this tho, Before IGF was eventually built and even the new Mosaic and for that matter THF... there were years upon years of talk and more talk and more talk and designs and all sorts of stuff... This is just step 1. In 5 or 6 years, maybe they actually put shovels in the ground.

They might have to wait that long to get Nenshi voted out of power and get someone "more favourable to the cause" voted in......

http://calgaryherald.com/sports/hockey/nhl/calgary-flames/flames-reveal-details-of-900m-downtown-arena-stadium-plan

So what is a 240 mill Community Revitalization Levy? Sounds like a tax.

Odd, isn't it? Somehow sports franchises (corporations, really) are some sort of sacred cows and deserving of massive public funds as opposed to individuals who are reviled for being temporarily (for the most part) down on their luck.

As an example, in Detroit, the city agreed to give over $200 million plus iinfrastructure improvements of an undetermined value to the very profitable Red Wings owner (who is worth some 5.8 billion) to build a $660 million new arena. And the city did this a week after declaring bankruptcy. Sort of a reverse Robin Hood thingie.

Yes, sports franchises are coveted by citizens.

Just stumbled across worldstadiums.com. The City of London, UK, has 14 stadiums, each with capacity of 20k or more. Another 11 with capacity from 10k to 20k. Sports franchises have sway.

http://www.worldstadiums.com/europe/countries/united_kingdom/england/london.shtml

 

 

200 Million plus the city cleaning up the land? Ouch... Hope it happens but.. I'm not sure it's much more than a dream right now. I will say this tho, Before IGF was eventually built and even the new Mosaic and for that matter THF... there were years upon years of talk and more talk and more talk and designs and all sorts of stuff... This is just step 1. In 5 or 6 years, maybe they actually put shovels in the ground.

They might have to wait that long to get Nenshi voted out of power and get someone "more favourable to the cause" voted in......

http://calgaryherald.com/sports/hockey/nhl/calgary-flames/flames-reveal-details-of-900m-downtown-arena-stadium-plan

So what is a 240 mill Community Revitalization Levy? Sounds like a tax.

 

Provincial funding. 

I'm not sure why some people are against public funding for these places tho, Like the star trek guy said... creates jobs, brings in lots of money for the economy. That's honestly why i never understood those who had an issue with IGF being publically  funded. Man, if people actually stepped back and look at some of the crap our tax dollars goes too,  I don't think they would be complaining about sports teams getting funding either. 

 

Pro Sports teams gives your city an identity... Man, look at the JETS, they left and a small part, a large part even of this cities identity left with them.... They were brought back and a part of our identity returned.

 

Sports is huge, does more good than harm thats for sure. If i was in charge, I'd  fund every damn arena and stadium proposal possible with tax payers money. 

 

The emotional argument is about the only long-term one.  There's no economic benefit on a region to having pro sports.  Most of the jobs are comparable to working retail, and very few are full-time.  Like Noeller says, there is the short-term benefit of building it.

 

I fully agree with using public money in many cases, I just hate when they try to make it seem financially sensible.  In reality it is tossing money into a financial black hole.  Fair enough and like you said a lot of public money goes into projects that will never return that money to the public purse, just be honest.  Otherwise you end up in the mess we've been stepping in for half a decade now.

Looks at stadium/arena design...fudge me!

 

200 Million plus the city cleaning up the land? Ouch... Hope it happens but.. I'm not sure it's much more than a dream right now. I will say this tho, Before IGF was eventually built and even the new Mosaic and for that matter THF... there were years upon years of talk and more talk and more talk and designs and all sorts of stuff... This is just step 1. In 5 or 6 years, maybe they actually put shovels in the ground.

They might have to wait that long to get Nenshi voted out of power and get someone "more favourable to the cause" voted in......

http://calgaryherald.com/sports/hockey/nhl/calgary-flames/flames-reveal-details-of-900m-downtown-arena-stadium-plan

So what is a 240 mill Community Revitalization Levy? Sounds like a tax.

Provincial funding.

Oh. Ok. I'm believing you. Did Edmonton get Provincial Funding for their new Ice Palace? Didn't someone just spend a whack of dough on Commonwealth, right? Did the Prov Gov also contribute to Commonwealth and the facility in Ft. Mac.?

 

 

 

 

200 Million plus the city cleaning up the land? Ouch... Hope it happens but.. I'm not sure it's much more than a dream right now. I will say this tho, Before IGF was eventually built and even the new Mosaic and for that matter THF... there were years upon years of talk and more talk and more talk and designs and all sorts of stuff... This is just step 1. In 5 or 6 years, maybe they actually put shovels in the ground.

They might have to wait that long to get Nenshi voted out of power and get someone "more favourable to the cause" voted in......

http://calgaryherald.com/sports/hockey/nhl/calgary-flames/flames-reveal-details-of-900m-downtown-arena-stadium-plan

So what is a 240 mill Community Revitalization Levy? Sounds like a tax.

Provincial funding.

Oh. Ok. I'm believing you. Did Edmonton get Provincial Funding for their new Ice Palace? Didn't someone just spend a whack of dough on Commonwealth, right? Did the Prov Gov also contribute to Commonwealth and the facility in Ft. Mac.?

 

 

 

 

 

 

200 Million plus the city cleaning up the land? Ouch... Hope it happens but.. I'm not sure it's much more than a dream right now. I will say this tho, Before IGF was eventually built and even the new Mosaic and for that matter THF... there were years upon years of talk and more talk and more talk and designs and all sorts of stuff... This is just step 1. In 5 or 6 years, maybe they actually put shovels in the ground.

They might have to wait that long to get Nenshi voted out of power and get someone "more favourable to the cause" voted in......

http://calgaryherald.com/sports/hockey/nhl/calgary-flames/flames-reveal-details-of-900m-downtown-arena-stadium-plan

So what is a 240 mill Community Revitalization Levy? Sounds like a tax.

Provincial funding.

Oh. Ok. I'm believing you. Did Edmonton get Provincial Funding for their new Ice Palace? Didn't someone just spend a whack of dough on Commonwealth, right? Did the Prov Gov also contribute to Commonwealth and the facility in Ft. Mac.?

 

Yes,yes,yes,yes,yes.

@ISO........thanks. fewer complaints about the government with them spreading the wealth.

I'm not sure why some people are against public funding for these places tho, Like the star trek guy said... creates jobs, brings in lots of money for the economy. That's honestly why i never understood those who had an issue with IGF being publically  funded. Man, if people actually stepped back and look at some of the crap our tax dollars goes too,  I don't think they would be complaining about sports teams getting funding either. 

 

Pro Sports teams gives your city an identity... Man, look at the JETS, they left and a small part, a large part even of this cities identity left with them.... They were brought back and a part of our identity returned.

 

Sports is huge, does more good than harm thats for sure. If i was in charge, I'd  fund every damn arena and stadium proposal possible with tax payers money. 

 

You have to factor in the opportunity cost of providing all the taxpayer funds for a project like this.  Why subsidize a stadium/arena complex for the benefit of crappy, minimum wage part-time jobs when you could just as easily subsidize some other corporate interest that would provide full-time decent paying jobs...or deal with pressing infrastructure needs with that money instead.  Those construction jobs are nothing more than temporary and are always the go-to response from proprietors of such projects and the the die-hard sports fans who parrot this nonsense.

 

A sports team is but a small part of a city's identity.  If it is all you have, that is pretty sad.  When the Jets left, live went on as usual and the city did not suffer some personal identity crisis nor did it dry up.  Stadium and arena funding in smaller cities are pretty much a necessity to allow for financial viability but within reason.  No one wants to see a city that is encumbered by such a financial obligation as to cut essential municipal services as has been done in Cincinatti and Glendale.

I watched like 10 minutes of that video b4 i got bored as hell but the one thing, is that ken king? the one thing he kept saying over and over and over and over is... a PUBLIC fieldhouse... to be used 365 days a year. Pretty evident he was letting it be known that this is being built with the PUBLIC in mind... Yup, it's CFL stadium and a hockey arena but... it's mainly gonna be used as a Public facility...

 

Lets just break something down really quick.. Stamps play 9 home games  a year... Flames play 41 or 42 i think... Lets include playoffs and add, let's just say a nice easy round rumber..20 more dates in total....

 

51 + 20 = 71. For the remaining damn near 300 days of the year.. it's a public facility. Thought mentioning Public facility over and over was smart. 

 

Good ol' Ken King.  Trying to pull the wool over the eyes of Calgarians and the city council.  I loved how king and those renders emphasized that this is a EVENT CENTRE and a FIELDHOUSE as if this project is being primarily built for the public first and foremost. haha.  In reality the arena will be a professional sports facility for the Flames, the Hitman (yeah, they are amateur but you still pay to see them), and the Roughnecks.  Then you add another 100-120 events per year, factor in off days for maintenance, concert set-up and takedown, creating and melting ice and there might be 50 or so days available for public use..of course almost all those would be available at a steep rental price.  There might be a few days that the Flames organization makes the building available to the public for no charge like a fan appreciation day but those will be few and far between.  Making money is the primary reason for the arena while public use will be given little thought.

 

I also love how King piggybacks the idea of a domed stadium onto the plans of fieldhouse.  Since the City had discussed funding a $200 million indoor facility it basically reduces by 50% the estimated amount it would cost for a 30,000 seat domed stadium.  The problem for the city though, besides the outrageous costs, is that a shared facility with pro sports teams greatly reduces the amount of time the public has access to the facility.  Between the Stamps games and practices, pro soccer team games and practice and a few concerts, the facility will probably lose 80-100 days of public use whereas a spending that $200 million on a standalone facility for the public guarantees them 365 days a year of open public access.

 

Fortunately, Calgarians and the city council will see right through King's attempts as selling this as a primary public event centre.  They will also be expecting a substantially larger contribution from private interests than the proposed funding model suggests.

 

 

200 Million plus the city cleaning up the land? Ouch... Hope it happens but.. I'm not sure it's much more than a dream right now. I will say this tho, Before IGF was eventually built and even the new Mosaic and for that matter THF... there were years upon years of talk and more talk and more talk and designs and all sorts of stuff... This is just step 1. In 5 or 6 years, maybe they actually put shovels in the ground.

They might have to wait that long to get Nenshi voted out of power and get someone "more favourable to the cause" voted in......

http://calgaryherald.com/sports/hockey/nhl/calgary-flames/flames-reveal-details-of-900m-downtown-arena-stadium-plan

So what is a 240 mill Community Revitalization Levy? Sounds like a tax.

 

Pretty much.  It will be a loan from the government.  These CRFs are far from a guarantee too.  So basically, the Flames are asking the government to subsidize half this project...and probably pay for the entire clean-up of the site.  Won't happen.

 

This is probably the first of a series of proposals we will be seeing in the coming years.  I think it will be 8-10 years before anything is actually built.  Fasten your seatbelts - it's going to be a long and bumpy ride.