Figured I'd make this thread since I always point out that "advanced" statistics do NOT favor Buck Pierce when comparing him against other quarterbacks. I'll try and update this weekly just to keep it current especially with Hall playing this week to add another comparison.

 

What I looked at mostly was % of two and outs, average offense per drive, points per possession, etc. For the sake of continuity, when I tally this stuff up, I counted a turnover prior to a first down being gained as a two and out but a turnover after a first down had been gained was not.

 

Here's what I came up with:

 

Week 1

Buck Pierce - 19 possessions, 12 two and outs (63%), 3 turnovers, 2 touchdowns

Average points per possession - 0.94

Average yardage per possession - 16.26 yards (longest 73 yards)

 

Week 2

Buck Pierce - 18 possessions, 8 two and outs (44%), 3 turnovers, 2 touchdowns

Average points per possession - 1

Average yardage per possession - 20.1 yards (longest 105 yards)

 

Justin Goltz - 1 possession, 1 two and out, 1 turnover

Average points per possession - 0

Average yardage per possession - 4 (longest 4 yards)

 

Week 3

Buck Pierce - 15 possessions, 6 two and outs (40%), 3 touchdowns

Average points per possession - 1.2

Average yardage per possession - 22.6 (longest 92 yards)

 

One thing I will point out, although the stats are what they are ... All 6 of the two and outs in this game were in the second half, where we had 8 possessions. That's horrible second half efficiency. In fact, aside from a 92 yard drive while Hamilton was playing prevent, our net offense in the second half of this game was -7 yards.

 

Week 4

Buck Pierce - 8 possessions, 5 two and outs (62%), 1 turnover

Average points per possession - 0.75

Average yardage per possession - 20.62 (longest 65 yards)

 

Justin Goltz - 7 possessions, 2 two and outs (28%), 1 turnover

Average points per possession - 1.28

Average yardage per possession - 29 (longest 64 yards)

 

Week 5

Justin Goltz - 13 possessions, 6 two and outs (46%), 1 turnover, 3 touchdowns

Average points per possession - 1.61

Average yardage per possession - 25.23 (longest 80 yards)

 

Week 6

Justin Goltz - 15 possessions, 5 two and outs (33%), 1 turnover, 2 touchdowns

Average points per possession - 1.2

Average yardage per possession - 17.2 (longest 41 yards)

 

Week 8

Max Hall - 14 possessions, 6 two and outs (42%), 3 turnovers, 1 touchdown

Average points per possession - 0.64

Average yardage per possession - 23.92 (longest 103 yards)

 

Buck Pierce - 1 possession, 1 two and out (100%)

Average points per possession - 0

Average yardage per possession - 9 (longest 9 yards)

 

2013 totals to date

Buck Pierce - 61 possessions, 32 two and outs (52.4%), 7 turnovers (11.4%), 7 touchdowns (11.4%)

Average points per possession - 0.98

Average yardage per possession - 19.58 yards

 

Justin Goltz - 36 possessions, 14 two and outs (38.8%), 4 turnovers, (11.1%), 5 touchdowns (13.8%)

Average points per possession - 1.14

Average yardage per possession - 21.91 yards

 

Max Hall - 14 possessions, 6 two and outs (42%), 3 turnovers (21%), 1 touchdown (7%)

Average points per possession - 0.64

Average yardage per possession - 23.92

That's a fairer statement, but let's be honest ... it's not just Crowton's system that Buck has struggled with.

 

He struggled with the LaPolice offense. He struggled with the Crowpolice offense. He struggled with the Crowton offense.

 

I just don't see a comeback being successful. I wish it could be.

To be fair, EVERY QB we had struggled under those offensive schemes.  Elliott did the best with the chicken 'salad' that our offensive systems have been.

To be fair, EVERY QB we had struggled under those offensive schemes.  Elliott did the best with the chicken 'salad' that our offensive systems have been.

 

I was thinking about that the other day.

 

Crowton seems to have figured out the red zone now. Biggest issue Elliott had.

 

I wonder what Elliott and Crowton could produce together this year.

I wonder what Elliott and Crowton could produce together this year.

 

The thing with Elliot was that the errors he was making were largely coachable ones that could have been addressed with some competent guidance and a bit of maturity. But of course we aren't patient enough for that.

Buck had Max protection due to his inability to stay healthy. How long did he last without it? half a game.

I was thinking about that the other day.

 

Crowton seems to have figured out the red zone now. Biggest issue Elliott had.

 

I wonder what Elliott and Crowton could produce together this year.

I was wondering the other day if maybe the reason Elliott looked good was that he would just ignore the play calls and do whatever he liked.... which would also explain why the coaches couldn't wait to get him out of town. It's such a tin foil hat thing but what if Crowton is just the shits of a play caller? 

The thing with Elliot was that the errors he was making were largely coachable ones that could have been addressed with some competent guidance and a bit of maturity. But of course we aren't patient enough for that.

 

Well this is the whole deal isn't it?

Somewhere between the brash style of Elliott and the teeth gnashing of the Coaching staff, there must have been a starting point to turn what was evidently some talent into a usable QB.

Was it just immaturity? 

Were they pished that he, as 17 says, ignored their plays? (and made plays on his own)

Let's face it...he brought excitement to our game. (until the red zone)

Lack of patience?

Who were the real dumb asses here?

 

Let's just hope Hall will make us forget this ordeal.

In hind sight it definitely was a mistake to release Joey.

In hind sight it definitely was a mistake to release Joey.

you didn't need hind sight to know what a mistake it was

Welcome back Buck.

In hind sight it definitely was a mistake to release Joey.

 

We could offer Wally a second round pick for permission to talk to him about whether he would consider coming back to Winnipeg.

In hind sight it definitely was a mistake to release Joey.

Most of us were saying it was a mistake at the time.

In hind sight it definitely was a mistake to release Joey.

 

We could offer Wally a second round pick for permission to talk to him about whether he would consider coming back to Winnipeg.

We can give him Clarence Denmark...

I liked Elliott as well guys, but after all the picks I wasn't that heart broken he was cut.

Now I'm kind of wishing we kept him.

Elliotts problems were ones that were far easier to coach out in my mind than not being able to do anything right. He was at least able to move the ball, the offense showed a lot of progress towards the end of last year when he was under centre. But Burke and Crowton soured on him and didn't even want to try and work with him on the problem areas. Huge mistake simply because he was the only qb we've had in the last 4 years who has been able to put drives together. 

So any chance of Elliott coming back next season? 

Updated OP to include week 8 stats

So any chance of Elliott coming back next season? 

talked with a reporter yesterday who said the coaches hate that Elliott doesn't watch film and doesn't prepare properly. Said that Tim Burke really doesn't like the guy and that's being polite about it. 

 

So, no....no JE under Tim Burke's watch...

 

So any chance of Elliott coming back next season? 

talked with a reporter yesterday who said the coaches hate that Elliott doesn't watch film and doesn't prepare properly. Said that Tim Burke really doesn't like the guy and that's being polite about it. 

 

So, no....no JE under Tim Burke's watch...

 

but TIm Burke is going to be relieved of his duties before next season...

ha ha...welllllllllllllll......

I said.....

 

 

So any chance of Elliott coming back next season? 

talked with a reporter yesterday who said the coaches hate that Elliott doesn't watch film and doesn't prepare properly. Said that Tim Burke really doesn't like the guy and that's being polite about it. 

 

So, no....no JE under Tim Burke's watch...

 

but TIm Burke is going to be relieved of his duties before next season...

 

 

Yeah, what we really need is a coach who embraces a QB who doesn't watch film or prepare adequately

 

 

Yeah, what we really need is a coach who embraces a QB who doesn't watch film or prepare adequately

 

 

How about a coach that is willing to try and improve a guys habits?

 

 

 

Yeah, what we really need is a coach who embraces a QB who doesn't watch film or prepare adequately

 

 

How about a coach that is willing to try and improve a guys habits?

 

 

How about we try a QB with some actual potential instead of trying to get a dud like Elliott back?

 

 

 

 

Yeah, what we really need is a coach who embraces a QB who doesn't watch film or prepare adequately

 

 

How about a coach that is willing to try and improve a guys habits?

 

 

How about we try a QB with some actual potential instead of trying to get a dud like Elliott back?

 

Yep, them POWs showed what a dud he is...

7 interceptions in 2 games.  What a star.  And not willing to watch film to improve his game, either.  Sounds like a real winner.  Except for all the losses, of course.

5/7 came in the one game vs Calgary, which people just can't let go of for some reason. The rest of the time, he protected the ball really well. He showed a hell of a lot more than any QB we've had in a really long time. But again, if the kid is a dope and the coaches don't like him, that's a whole other thing....hopefully he grows up one day.