bluto Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 this is good progress, imo. the deal is there to be had for the players if they're willing to step off of revenue sharing as their hill-to-die-on. that's the move here: ok League, we the players will reluctantly agree to accept a deal without revenue sharing provided you amend your deal to the following amounts... -the proposed SMS cap raise is 12% (not 9%) and it raises $60k/year (not $50k), -increase the minimum salary immediately to $55k (not $50k) which will be $60k at the end of the deal (not$55k). -raising the practice roster weekly pay from $750 to $900 once both sides agree that the amount is going up, the rest is just haggling. the owners made a reasonable offer that is just this side of generous... it's up to the players to get some extra value in the offer and get it signed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 I don't know where I read it, but I like the idea of raising the cap to 5 mill but QB's would be exempt. So Toronto can pay a QB $1 million and then ask the rest of the league to cover their debt? Cough, cough. Been done before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 I think the players want a salary cap of somewhere between $5 to $5.5 million. Otherwise why counter with $7 million? That's their hill to die on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goalie Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 Reading some of the players comments on twitter, i think they have gotten off the revenue sharing idea, jon cornish said so at least, so did paul mccallum, it is odd to me that most the players going on about this on twitter are the veteran players and guys who probably are getting paid a decent chunk of change as is. Their is a deal to be made here, i don't like the cfl going to the media but i also dont like players using social media as a way to interact with the fans about this. This should all be done behind closed doors in my opinion. But their does seem to a deal to be made somewhere here, whether thats by raising the cap a bit more to 5 million this season and then going up in 100,000 $ per year increments until the deal is done, essentially making the final cap number about 5.7 5.8 million, i don't know but... there does seem to be some progress here regardless of what the players and certain members of the media are saying. Madani going on about how the players have already started asking their agents for loans is probably a sign that the players arent as united as we are lead to believe, i hate their hashtag too, #wearetheleague. Reality tho is, they are not the league, they come and go, the fans are the league and like tburgess and tup said, i think for the average fan, its pretty hard to be on the side of a player who just got offered a 10 percent raise plus a 3000 dollar bonus. I know i'd take that if offered to me right now. Who wouldn't. Also agree with bob irving tho who said, that 4.8 is a good starting point but the league needs to throw the players a bone a bit and actually increase the cap by more than 1 percent per year. increase the cap to 4.8 maybe 5.0 million this season and add 100,000 every year of the deal and i think that's fair for both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 Are they really using #wearetheleague?? Another great way to alienate fans. If the players have any hill to die on, I hope they dont mind dying. In the CFL, the league is in the drivers seat and has made a reasonable offer. Players have to counter reasonably and put this thing to bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 How are they NOT the league? If some fans don't like that hashtag then they are naive & overly sensitive. These guys sacrifice their bodies so it's not like any other job in comparison. For what they do they are grossly underpaid. I support the players & not someone like David Braley who has has had a lot of power in this league for too long. He wants to keep the players under his thumb. Well, times they are a changin'. This deal will get done with a salary cap somewhere over $5 million.... Noeller 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goalie Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 Are they really using #wearetheleague?? Another great way to alienate fans. If the players have any hill to die on, I hope they dont mind dying. In the CFL, the league is in the drivers seat and has made a reasonable offer. Players have to counter reasonably and put this thing to bed. yes they are really using that hashtag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goalie Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 How are they NOT the league? If some fans don't like that hashtag then they are naive & overly sensitive. These guys sacrifice their bodies so it's not like any other job in comparison. For what they do they are grossly underpaid. I support the players & not someone like David Braley who has has had a lot of power in this league for too long. He wants to keep the players under his thumb. Well, times they are a changin'. This deal will get done with a salary cap somewhere over $5 million.... players come and players go, jeez man, 35 or 36 players are left from last years bomber team, there is a huge amount of turnover on every team every year, the players are not the league, i hate that argument, without the fans there is no league, the fans are the league... not the players who are here one week and gone the next. Jaxon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR. CFL Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 Negotiating in the media. Stop complaining about the CFL doing it when the players have already let it out about strike ballots going out and their demands. Both sides are have done it and will continue to do it. The CFL isn't stupid they are appealing to the vast majority of players that are broke withe the instant 3K payout with no long term lingering costs associated with it. The challenge is the hard line NIP rich kids think they run the PA, not the lower end majority of the membership. Raising the minimum does nothing for the current membership, they don't make the minimum anyway. That impacts rookie basically and they don't become voting members of the PA until they make a roster. The CFL knows that's who they need to hit the working class, bulk of the membership and not those negotiating. Goalie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuranBoldenRules Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 Reading some of the players comments on twitter, i think they have gotten off the revenue sharing idea, jon cornish said so at least, so did paul mccallum, it is odd to me that most the players going on about this on twitter are the veteran players and guys who probably are getting paid a decent chunk of change as is. Their is a deal to be made here, i don't like the cfl going to the media but i also dont like players using social media as a way to interact with the fans about this. This should all be done behind closed doors in my opinion. The media is a huge part of any labour negotiation, from Superstore cashiers right up to pro athletes. Most unions and large employers have media consultants just for that purpose. It's a matter of whether you want Gary Lawless (or a news reporter in the case of other negotiations) putting out leaks, many times inaccurate or one-sided, or if you want to control the message. On Cohon's part, he's trying to get the message of the money in their pockets to all the players. Having been a part of a bargaining unit and outside that fence as an employee, often employees have no idea what offers are on the table, particularly coming from the employer's side. I'm part of the internet generation, so I have no idea what it was like before so many avenues of instant communication were available, but I imagine it was even more closed. Straight up money is often used to move the bargaining unit off other issues, stuff like benefits and player safety in this case, and strike a quick deal when both sides are bordering on desperation. It's sort of like a car salesman, "come on let's get this deal done, I'll fill the tank!" DR. CFL and MinisterOfD5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBURGESS Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 The fact of the matter is the players are easily replaceable. Most have about a 3(?) year career. The fans, the teams, and the owners have way more invested in the league than the players do. Watching the Jersey number countdown that StatsJunkie has been posting daily shows just how many players I'd forgotten about who were in the running to be the best to ever wear their number. I've totally forgotten most of the players who've come and gone since I started watching in the 60's and I'll bet I'm not alone. If the players went on strike and the teams brought in replacements, the CFL would continue with slightly less revenue, slightly less payroll, slightly worse talent in the import positions and slightly better talent in the NI spots that would be replaced with imports. I'd bet some players would even cross the picket line to go to work. The Unknown Poster 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 How are they NOT the league? If some fans don't like that hashtag then they are naive & overly sensitive. These guys sacrifice their bodies so it's not like any other job in comparison. For what they do they are grossly underpaid. I support the players & not someone like David Braley who has has had a lot of power in this league for too long. He wants to keep the players under his thumb. Well, times they are a changin'. This deal will get done with a salary cap somewhere over $5 million.... Completely disagree. What's naive is any one group of the league, players or fans claiming that *they* are the league. The league requires all of them plus corporate sponsors plus TV partners to succeed. But there are lots of out of work football players. Alienating the fans is pure idiocy. Something like that hashtag comes across as arrogant. I hate CBA negotiations. I hate them on this level. I hate them on my companies level. I hate them. Nothing shows grown adults' true inner child like CBA negotiations. Goalie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR. CFL Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 If you hate CBA negotiations, how do you feel about election campaigns ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jpan85 Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 Wonder how many guys show up to rookie camp if there is a strike vote not knowing they are on strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goalie Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 it's my understanding that in order to be a part of the cfl pa, you first need to make the roster, would these rookies even be part of the pa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 The fact of the matter is the players are easily replaceable. Most have about a 3(?) year career. The fans, the teams, and the owners have way more invested in the league than the players do. Watching the Jersey number countdown that StatsJunkie has been posting daily shows just how many players I'd forgotten about who were in the running to be the best to ever wear their number. I've totally forgotten most of the players who've come and gone since I started watching in the 60's and I'll bet I'm not alone. If the players went on strike and the teams brought in replacements, the CFL would continue with slightly less revenue, slightly less payroll, slightly worse talent in the import positions and slightly better talent in the NI spots that would be replaced with imports. I'd bet some players would even cross the picket line to go to work. It would certainly suck to go that route but if this turns into a war of attrition, the CFL will break the PA long before the PA breaks the CFL. Jaxon and Mr. Perfect 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR. CFL Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 That is correct...not until they are part of the active roster when the team is picked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 it's my understanding that in order to be a part of the cfl pa, you first need to make the roster, would these rookies even be part of the pa? They dont get to vote until they pay dues so I suspect not,. But ofcourse, a player isnt going to "cross the picket line" especially a rookie until such time as it gets ridiculous. However, thats the sort of thing that causes dissention in the ranks. If the players are already publicly coming off their requirement for revenue sharing, then the cracks are forming. I actually think the CFL has played this pretty smart. They made a bad offer when no one really cared, got the players all hot and bothered. The players come back with a BS offer that doesnt play well to the fans at a time when the media is paying more attention, the players start spouting off on twitter and Cohon looks professional in his delivery of a new, reasonable offer. League is in the driver's seat right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 Are they really using #wearetheleague?? Another great way to alienate fans. If the players have any hill to die on, I hope they dont mind dying. In the CFL, the league is in the drivers seat and has made a reasonable offer. Players have to counter reasonably and put this thing to bed. yes they are really using that hashtag. And you don't like that? I sure feel don't feel alienated. More like who cares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbrg Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 Their is a deal to be made here, i don't like the cfl going to the media but i also dont like players using social media as a way to interact with the fans about this. This should all be done behind closed doors in my opinion. The league doesn't want 9 separate owners, or more if you're counting ownership groups and boards of directors, speaking on their own. They want complete unity and a single voice. The also don't want anyone considered part of the CFL to be beaking off in back-n-forths with players. That is incredibly counterproductive. At this point the cone of silence policy was replaced with a new strategy of just plainly stating what their offer is. I'm fine with that. It doesn't go against either of the above two principles I think they're trying to adhere to. Media battles are always a big part of this and the talking heads were starting to get vocal about being completely shut out by the CFL. Wiecek and Lawless were wringing their hands and crying on each others shoulders about it on H&L yesterday. While you don't want to negotiate thru the media, you don't want them turning against you either. It was a necessary move and based on the numbers and concepts thrown out, it also looks like the first real step towards a resolution. Fans have an understanding of the economics in the CFL, probably a lot better than the players do. The players weren't around 20 years ago when Bomber staffers had to bring their own toilet paper to work. They think this snapshot in time is all that is relevant. Some of these guys will have had to get a map to know where Winnipeg was after they signed their contract; they have no concept of the journey this league has been on. If the PA comes back with cries of foul after this proposal they will have very few fans left in their corner. Maybe just Noeller. I'm sure there will be some give and take, a few tweaks here and there to shift this slightly closer to the players numbers, but in terms of dollars and cents this is reasonable for this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 Are they really using #wearetheleague?? Another great way to alienate fans. If the players have any hill to die on, I hope they dont mind dying. In the CFL, the league is in the drivers seat and has made a reasonable offer. Players have to counter reasonably and put this thing to bed. yes they are really using that hashtag. And you don't like that? I sure feel don't feel alienated. More like who cares? I feel like the players dont get it. Which means their leadership doesnt get it if they havent prepared the players better than that. You cant say 'who cares' if you're on here discussing it. You care. You may not care what the players say online but you care about the process. And to me the "public" show of solidarity just gets the public rolling their eyes. The public reads about a bunch of guys who are spending all day hanging out with family, playing sports, working out, whining on twitter about how poorly they are being treated when they are expected to come play football for six months for $92,000 and then go back down south and chill out for the winter. Hard to sway public opinion. The PA should have a complete cone of silence on the players and only let the leadership release statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 The media handwringing yesterday was because the PA's offer was so ludicrous. But thats the problem with Collective Bargaining in the modern world. Most unions think its 1912 still. And yet, neither side can make their "best" offer first because the other side takes that and counters it. They have to inch closer and closer, blow up a few times, come down to the wire, risk real money and then finally get locked in a room where they can speak honestly and "off the record" before finally putting their real ducks on the table. Its unfortunate we have to go through the song and dance routine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 Are they really using #wearetheleague?? Another great way to alienate fans. If the players have any hill to die on, I hope they dont mind dying. In the CFL, the league is in the drivers seat and has made a reasonable offer. Players have to counter reasonably and put this thing to bed. yes they are really using that hashtag. And you don't like that? I sure feel don't feel alienated. More like who cares? I feel like the players dont get it. Which means their leadership doesnt get it if they havent prepared the players better than that. You cant say 'who cares' if you're on here discussing it. You care. You may not care what the players say online but you care about the process. And to me the "public" show of solidarity just gets the public rolling their eyes. The public reads about a bunch of guys who are spending all day hanging out with family, playing sports, working out, whining on twitter about how poorly they are being treated when they are expected to come play football for six months for $92,000 and then go back down south and chill out for the winter. Hard to sway public opinion. The PA should have a complete cone of silence on the players and only let the leadership release statements. Yeah, I can discuss the labour situation because I'm not just talking about stupid hashtags. I fail to see how a twitter hashtag is going to upset fans other than you & a few others. CFL players aren't millionaires & the majority never will be. The public sentiment is still with the players, I believe. Are fans happy? No. But both sides are being dickheads here equally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBURGESS Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 Are they really using #wearetheleague?? Another great way to alienate fans. If the players have any hill to die on, I hope they dont mind dying. In the CFL, the league is in the drivers seat and has made a reasonable offer. Players have to counter reasonably and put this thing to bed. yes they are really using that hashtag. And you don't like that? I sure feel don't feel alienated. More like who cares? I feel like the players dont get it. Which means their leadership doesnt get it if they havent prepared the players better than that. You cant say 'who cares' if you're on here discussing it. You care. You may not care what the players say online but you care about the process. And to me the "public" show of solidarity just gets the public rolling their eyes. The public reads about a bunch of guys who are spending all day hanging out with family, playing sports, working out, whining on twitter about how poorly they are being treated when they are expected to come play football for six months for $92,000 and then go back down south and chill out for the winter. Hard to sway public opinion. The PA should have a complete cone of silence on the players and only let the leadership release statements. Yeah, I can discuss the labour situation because I'm not just talking about stupid hashtags. I fail to see how a twitter hashtag is going to upset fans other than you & a few others. CFL players aren't millionaires & the majority never will be. The public sentiment is still with the players, I believe. Are fans happy? No. But both sides are being dickheads here equally. Yesterday I would have mostly agreed with you, but today's offer from the CFL is in the realm of reason and has shifted public opinion away from the players IMHO. If the players want it back they need to put a reasonable counter offer on the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 That's why I think that the SMS ultimately will be over $5 million for the new CBA. Lots of posturing going on now, Terry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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