25/26 CFL (Non Bombers) Off Season Thread

[wbbfan]

2 hours ago, Noeller said:

Everything I remember reading is that Vibert is a "natural" C... Or, at least, that's what he'd played in college. I was hoping he was the guy next year but not sure how polished he is...??

Not really a natural centre, but proficient enough at C that it doesn’t matter imo. He could easily be a starter in this league sooner rather than later at either g spot or c. 

5 hours ago, 17to85 said:

At guard... he's never got much chance at centre where our actual centee being a matador would be an improvement. Kolankowski spends most of the game wandering around like he's lost.

I’d add, no guard has looked terribly great next to kola. 
Eli has excelled in heavy sets on the edge including in pass pro and inside. 

I have no question that eli, and any ar ni C in the league would be an upgrade over kola. he’s that bad. 

It is very hard to properly identify how good an ol is/can be when next to a turn style. The insertion of bond at G and hardrick kicking out to rt took us from a team giving up among the most hits/pressures/sacks to the best ol in the league. 

Id sure like to see how wallace, neuf, eli, vibert and/or vanterpool play with out kola giving up instant disruption and pressure as fast as the qb gets the ball. I mean the Ts will play better too.  Rando and vanterpool are serious contenders for all kinds of awards if c is fixed. 

[johnzo]

I am not qualified to judge OL issues, but it sure seemed to me last year that Brady was getting the holes he needed at the point of attack and that we were getting OL into the second level often enough. 

The ugly OL moments happened in pass pro, Zach dropping back against teams rushing 3-4 -- sometimes Zach wouldn't even get a steamboat before he had to start scrambling, he'd have a DT in his lap or an DE coming round the horn.  Which makes me hopeful that if we get pass pro sorted out, Zach will return to form.

[17to85]

The rare times kolankowski actually got a block at the point of attack Oliveira would inevitably have a huge gain. 

Simply put our centre sucks and bringing the heavy sets we used a ton of don't mean **** when the middle guy is beat so badly so often by 1 guy.

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, johnzo said:

I am not qualified to judge OL issues, but it sure seemed to me last year that Brady was getting the holes he needed at the point of attack and that we were getting OL into the second level often enough. 

The ugly OL moments happened in pass pro, Zach dropping back against teams rushing 3-4 -- sometimes Zach wouldn't even get a steamboat before he had to start scrambling, he'd have a DT in his lap or an DE coming round the horn.  Which makes me hopeful that if we get pass pro sorted out, Zach will return to form.

run pro almost always does exceed pass pro. The izr scheme we run also means if the inside is shut down he can speed cut to the tackle. His vision while running has been a major part of his growth. It allows him to press the line but still pivot on a slight hesitation or over pursuit by the edge. 

I didn’t see nearly as much ol effectively blocking at the second level, or the classic down field scrum with our ol driving our ball carrier further for added yardage. But guys did get the opportunity, they just struggled getting on a guy and kicking him out or mowing him down. 

 Kola was also the guy heading down field more than the guards which creates a gap but doesn’t get you a seal at the second level. With teams shifting to line up in a 0 or 1 tech on kola that creates the situation where the guard carries the play side or head up dl and he slides off the double team down field. 

 

pass pro and ol play isn’t all time good, but with the way holding is being called, it has a massive advantage in pass pro. especially on the ends. All our ol has to play with inside leverage though to help compensate for our inability to seal the a gaps / nose lane. so our Ts give up too many rushes on looping routes to the qb with speed. 

 Does stan still have it to play head up on a guy and win the battle around the edge? Idk, i would rather see him kick in side. Every one gets better if the hole up the middle is slammed shut though. 

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

The rare times kolankowski actually got a block at the point of attack Oliveira would inevitably have a huge gain. 

Simply put our centre sucks and bringing the heavy sets we used a ton of don't mean **** when the middle guy is beat so badly so often by 1 guy.

It was painful watching him cruise for a guy and not find any one. Even more painful when the broadcasters would try to make excuses. When you’re the guy who will be doubling then heading down field, you should have an eye on the guy at the 2nd level who you want to hit the whole time.  getting to the point and being all alone is such a red flag for awareness. even if a guy falls down at the second level you should be able to get the 2nd a gap defender. 

[SpeedFlex27]

8 hours ago, GCn20 said:

When playing from behind BO loses touches. However, in the games where we got behind early part of it was because he didn't run well. Is he the best back in the CFL? Could be, but not by much and he's paid as if he is almost twice as good as everyone else. He isn't and that's the problem. This isn't about BO's ability, it's about whether he is worth his astronomical salary. 

No kidding, Brady loses touches if we're behind. All running backs have that happen. It doesn't mean that we don't pay. Oliveira's a tank. He responds to more work. So, if we have a lead in the fourth qurter, we unleash the running attack & he controls the game wearing down opoosition defenses. Last year, we had a dumbass OC who never used him properly all season long. Like I said, we lose Oliveira it's a clear sign that this is a cheap organization. That they don't spend any money, on other teams or on our free agents. One other question, just what is astronomical when it comes to salary with Lawler, Hatcher, Zach, Harris, & Philpott??

Edited 21 hours ago by SpeedFlex27

[rebusrankin]

So how much of a bump did Harris get from the $450,000 he got last year? Bet he's still cheaper than Zach.

[Goalie]

Brady had more yards receiving this year than any other I think. His run totals were down but he missed a few games for sure. Almost what 3 4 full ones? 

[17to85]

2 hours ago, wbbfan said:

It was painful watching him cruise for a guy and not find any one

Vividly picturing a couple notable examples where he's downfield and could easily get a piece of someone but just does nothing. He's just ******* embarrassing.

[wbbfan]

2 hours ago, rebusrankin said:

So how much of a bump did Harris get from the $450,000 he got last year? Bet he's still cheaper than Zach.

I would think he’s 500-600k. 

15 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Brady had more yards receiving this year than any other I think. His run totals were down but he missed a few games for sure. Almost what 3 4 full ones? 

4 I think. He also lead the backs in total yards despite the dip in carries. 

[rebusrankin]

I'd wager Harris is at 500k not 600k. Seems to be a guy who is willing to take less to help the team unlike Zach.

[SpeedFlex27]

3 hours ago, rebusrankin said:

So how much of a bump did Harris get from the $450,000 he got last year? Bet he's still cheaper than Zach.

I'm just guesssing but unless he wants to bring The Boyz back for one more try at a championship, I'd say Collaros, Kelly & Rourke money. He'd be crazy to not cash in when he can at his age. 

42 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

I'd wager Harris is at 500k not 600k. Seems to be a guy who is willing to take less to help the team unlike Zach.

You don't know that for sure. Walters says they don't renegotiate contracts. 

[Goalie]

I’m guessing Harris decided not to retire cuz they gave him Zach money. 

[SpeedFlex27]

6 minutes ago, Goalie said:

I’m guessing Harris decided not to retire cuz they gave him Zach money. 

He deserves it. He had a great season. Finally got the choke collar off him. He actually can stay healthy & win the last game he plays. The Riders wanted him back so I'm sure they paid. Dollah, dollah  bills, y'all. I'll say one thing, the Riders have nuthin' behind him as starting material. Just like us. We have nuthin' behind Collaros. Piss poor planning by the Canadian Mafia. As much as I think Dru Brown plays like a pot head with no emotion or excitement, he'd still be a better option than what we have now. 

Edited 17 hours ago by SpeedFlex27

[wbbfan]

11 hours ago, rebusrankin said:

I'd wager Harris is at 500k not 600k. Seems to be a guy who is willing to take less to help the team unlike Zach.

Having just won a ring, I kind of doubt he's giving the team handouts. Idr, has he ever renegotiated to a smaller deal? I don't feel like he has, or has taken a team-friendly deal when in a good position him self. 

That said, I think his deal is gonna be good value no matter what. With guys setting the pace for contracts right now, and with how this off-season has already started, $550k for Harris would be tremendous for them. 

[rebusrankin]

11 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I'm just guesssing but unless he wants to bring The Boyz back for one more try at a championship, I'd say Collaros, Kelly & Rourke money. He'd be crazy to not cash in when he can at his age. 

You don't know that for sure. Walters says they don't renegotiate contracts. 

He took less last year and talked about taking less so they could afford others.

[GCn20]

4 hours ago, rebusrankin said:

He took less last year and talked about taking less so they could afford others.

Last year he had the Kevin Glenn label to shake off. This year no such luck for the Riders methinks.

[wbbfan]

1 minute ago, GCn20 said:

Last year he had the Kevin Glenn label to shake off. This year no such luck for the Riders methinks.

100%. This is the best contract situation he's been in in ages, and very, very likely his last ever contract. But I don't think he will end up with a stupid deal.

This whole off-season is gonna end up like the wild west anyway. Montreal is maybe the most frugal of the successful teams today, and they just spent like drunk sailors. I think every premium FA that hits the market is going to get silly money, and every team will likely have a none qb earning nonesensical money. I don't know why I ever thought teams would do anything different with the cap increase. It's the CFL, of course, they are going to spend like drunk sailors on leave. 

Previously, I thought Brady should be under 220k-ish. Maybe a bit of incentive money on top of that. I'm starting to think that line should be around 235-245k, maybe 250k. Still much more than I'd like to pay for an RB, even if he ends up being the best Canadian back ever (and I think he will.) But I think the market for guys like that is going to jump. If Philpot, etc, reset the market with the increased cap, someone may well offer Brady 280-320k. If he hits free agency, I don't think he will be back. Really makes me curious to what guys like demski, kramdi and allen will get. 

[bigg jay]

4 hours ago, rebusrankin said:

He took less last year and talked about taking less so they could afford others.

He talks about it again this year with his newest contract.

Quote

“My aim is not to make as much money as I possibly can. It never has been, and that’s not really what I’m concerned about. I want this team to do right, and I’ve been on record, I told Jeremy that if it ever comes down to a small amount of us getting a guy that’s going to change our trajectory, I’m always willing to discuss and help out.”

"I just thought about what would be fair in terms of what I feel like I’ve accomplished in what we just did, and also making sure that we can get guys back. That’s really where I’m at right now."

Trevor Harris had no desire to become top-three paid CFL QB with Saskatchewan Roughriders extension - 3DownNation

[GCn20]

Just now, wbbfan said:

100%. This is the best contract situation he's been in in ages, and very, very likely his last ever contract. But I don't think he will end up with a stupid deal.

This whole off-season is gonna end up like the wild west anyway. Montreal is maybe the most frugal of the successful teams today, and they just spent like drunk sailors. I think every premium FA that hits the market is going to get silly money, and every team will likely have a none qb earning nonesensical money. I don't know why I ever thought teams would do anything different with the cap increase. It's the CFL, of course, they are going to spend like drunk sailors on leave. 

Previously, I thought Brady should be under 220k-ish. Maybe a bit of incentive money on top of that. I'm starting to think that line should be around 235-245k, maybe 250k. Still much more than I'd like to pay for an RB, even if he ends up being the best Canadian back ever (and I think he will.) But I think the market for guys like that is going to jump. If Philpot, etc, reset the market with the increased cap, someone may well offer Brady 280-320k. If he hits free agency, I don't think he will be back. Really makes me curious to what guys like demski, kramdi and allen will get. 

Im not willing to go a dollar over 250k for BO, and that is stupid money, but he's a home town guy. Honestly, I don't like mega contracts for RBs in the CFL. It's not a running league. The ONLY time a RB should be compensated like that is if you have a young QB just starting out, or you have a QB like Chris Streveler that is weak in the passing game.  My objection to BO's contract with us is that it makes the two men standing behind centre too expensive. If we had a 350-400k QB....great let's do it.....but with a 600k QB you just can't make your behind centre tandem 900k of your cap.

[GCn20]

20 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

No kidding, Brady loses touches if we're behind. All running backs have that happen. It doesn't mean that we don't pay. Oliveira's a tank. He responds to more work. So, if we have a lead in the fourth qurter, we unleash the running attack & he controls the game wearing down opoosition defenses. Last year, we had a dumbass OC who never used him properly all season long. Like I said, we lose Oliveira it's a clear sign that this is a cheap organization. That they don't spend any money, on other teams or on our free agents. One other question, just what is astronomical when it comes to salary with Lawler, Hatcher, Zach, Harris, & Philpott??

Cost over replacement. That is what makes his cost astronomical. Other RBs at 150k put up very similar numbers to BO last year. I agree Zach is currently overpaid as many QBs in a QB driven league are. Apples and oranges. What makes Lawler, Hatcher, and Philpott different? Cost over replacement. You can't replace the impact those 3 have for any cheaper. BO you can. That's not a slight on BO, just the historical fact when it comes to RBs both in Canada and the NFL. They play a position that there are more good RBs than there are teams to play for. You are trying to employ the same supply and demand across all position groups to justify BO's money and that just is not reality.

Edited 1 hour ago by GCn20

[rebusrankin]

Counter point on Brady (I agree on the cost over replacement argument), he's a premium Canadian talent and we are really lacking in that area.

[GCn20]

3 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

Counter point on Brady (I agree on the cost over replacement argument), he's a premium Canadian talent and we are really lacking in that area.

Agreed. Which is why I have stated as a caveat to what I am saying that if we are not signing him that money must go directly to upgrading our starting NATs at skill positions or on the OL. The number for BO being bandied about right now is 300k. If we do that we are blowing our brains out on SMS.

Edited 1 hour ago by GCn20

[blue85gold]

14 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

He talks about it again this year with his newest contract.

Trevor Harris had no desire to become top-three paid CFL QB with Saskatchewan Roughriders extension - 3DownNation

He talks about it but there's no number in that article. 

Doesn't want to be top 3, so all the means is less than $600K. 

Big difference between $450K and $590K

[GCn20]

2 minutes ago, blue85gold said:

He talks about it but there's no number in that article. 

Doesn't want to be top 3, so all the means is less than $600K. 

Big difference between $450K and $590K

He got a bump for sure. Unless his agent is the worst in the world he would have to have gotten one.

[SpeedFlex27]

15 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

Counter point on Brady (I agree on the cost over replacement argument), he's a premium Canadian talent and we are really lacking in that area.

GCn20 likes to use the word astronomical. The market is what it is. We CAN'T afford to lose Oliveira because of the message it sends the fanbase. Season tickets will start being cancelled. Forget consecutive sellouts. That'll be a thing of the past. 

18 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

He got a bump for sure. Unless his agent is the worst in the world he would have to have gotten one.

Yeah agree. Then why sign with the Riders. He could go elsewhere & get the money. 

23 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Agreed. Which is why I have stated as a caveat to what I am saying that if we are not signing him that money must go directly to upgrading our starting NATs at skill positions or on the OL. The number for BO being bandied about right now is 300k. If we do that we are blowing our brains out on SMS.

We have a lot of deadwood on the roster that can be chucked. The only reason not signing Oliveira will be Walters being cheap. IF he wants to sign Oliveira, he will.