Permission to talk: Is O'Shea leaving?

[wbbfan]

9 minutes ago, Booch said:

But if given total control basically...he'd have no pushback to deal with

He was given too much here..and killed us and created rifts with his room and with scouting...There a reason Penn left here...why work your butt off all offseason for nothing...Ted offered him similar role and off he went 

I feel like we have seen cracks in the foundation of the Mos-Walters relationship at times. It's been a bit scarce, but the difference between their year ending and pre season interviews spoke volumes as well as a few moves we've made. 

4 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

TBF, Penn says he left because of his loyalty to Ted.  He was the one who brought Penn in to the CFL and gave him a shot.  

 

That is a great quote. And Ted was all that and more. It does say something that he didn't feel that would be the case here without Ted ,though. To me, that sounds like between the lines he doesn't think we'd do what ever it takes to win, we didn't have that front office star aside from Ted, or that mentor type. Which does make sense knowing the nature of walters and ted. Makes me feel all the more for Penn too. 

[Booch]

9 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

TBF, Penn says he left because of his loyalty to Ted.  He was the one who brought Penn in to the CFL and gave him a shot.  

 

Yeah...that was part too...but also...he wasn't happy...was a big loss...u think a new young up and comer would say the other part in media...not happening

7 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

I feel like we have seen cracks in the foundation of the Mos-Walters relationship at times. It's been a bit scarce, but the difference between their year ending and pre season interviews spoke volumes as well as a few moves we've made. 

That is a great quote. And Ted was all that and more. It does say something that he didn't feel that would be the case here without Ted ,though. To me, that sounds like between the lines he doesn't think we'd do what ever it takes to win, we didn't have that front office star aside from Ted, or that mentor type. Which does make sense knowing the nature of walters and ted. Makes me feel all the more for Penn too. 

Yes..in not so many words...and so he left

[wbbfan]

We should have a Poll on this thread. 

Personally, I think Mos goes. This has always been the job, especially working under pinball and with more control. We have all known that from the day he was hired. 

I think Walters stays, and Wade continues for the time being. I've never thought Wade would keep this role for 15+ years. 

Wade should maybe make a call to Buono for his legendary referral services... He's been involved in probably half of the franchise turn overs since he retired. 

[GCn20]

43 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Even out side of FA, bc swung a deal last year involving an elite imp T. 

 

He said She said. I would not be surprised at all if Walters and Mos came to be at significant odds with the roster. Especially when you look at guys going from favorites to released/un signed like the marine. 

GM has final say. If Walters didn't like the marine he could have released him, He's the guy that makes the call to the league office. Again, we are striving to let Walters off the hook around here. GM has final say on who is available to any coach. Just a cold hard fact. I look at all the complaints about who was rostered and still see nobody better behind them with maybe the exception of Jake Thomas.

9 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

We should have a Poll on this thread. 

Personally, I think Mos goes. This has always been the job, especially working under pinball and with more control. We have all known that from the day he was hired. 

I think Walters stays, and Wade continues for the time being. I've never thought Wade would keep this role for 15+ years. 

Wade should maybe make a call to Buono for his legendary referral services... He's been involved in probably half of the franchise turn overs since he retired. 

If Walters stays I hope WM gives him a very short leash because he has been Waldo for two years now. Walters CAN be a very good GM, he needs to show up to work tho. That being said, I hope we clean house.

Edited 2 hours ago by GCn20

[bb1]

14 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

GM has final say. If Walters didn't like the marine he could have released him, He's the guy that makes the call to the league office. Again, we are striving to let Walters off the hook around here. GM has final say on who is available to any coach. Just a cold hard fact. I look at all the complaints about who was rostered and still see nobody better behind them with maybe the exception of Jake Thomas.

If Walters stays I hope WM gives him a very short leash because he has been Waldo for two years now. Walters CAN be a very good GM, he needs to show up to work tho. That being said, I hope we clean house.

Yeah going 10 years with double digit wins..definitely time to clean house.🙄

[Engelwood]

I see Oshea is going to Toronto. Oshea is using Hamilton to create a bidding war. 

Walters stays. 

I hope we go after Mueller or AC for head coach/OC roll to save on payroll there. I think AC could get one or 2 more years out of Zach if he gets an Oline. I want Elgersma to learn behind a good QB for a year or 2. If he takes the job all the better.
Bring Streveler in as RB coach
JJ stays as QB coach and Offensive Assistant

DC is still YO
Biggie as LB/CB coach

Miller as Special Teams

[SpeedFlex27]

18 minutes ago, Engelwood said:

I see Oshea is going to Toronto. Oshea is using Hamilton to create a bidding war. 

Walters stays. 

I hope we go after Mueller or AC for head coach/OC roll to save on payroll there. I think AC could get one or 2 more years out of Zach if he gets an Oline. I want Elgersma to learn behind a good QB for a year or 2. If he takes the job all the better.
Bring Streveler in as RB coach
JJ stays as QB coach and Offensive Assistant

DC is still YO
Biggie as LB/CB coach

Miller as Special Teams

What kind of coaching staff is that??? What is so special about Mueller? As far as coaching in the CFL goes, he hasn't won a thing... yet. Even if he does on Sunday, I don't think he's ready. Your other selections? Not impressed. Other than Jackson, they're short on coaching experience & preparation. Miller will stick with Osh wherever he goes. That would be a disaster of a staff. They'd make a good Rifles staff, though. 

Edited 2 hours ago by SpeedFlex27

[wbbfan]

26 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

GM has final say. If Walters didn't like the marine he could have released him, He's the guy that makes the call to the league office. Again, we are striving to let Walters off the hook around here. GM has final say on who is available to any coach. Just a cold hard fact. I look at all the complaints about who was rostered and still see nobody better behind them with maybe the exception of Jake Thomas.

If Walters stays I hope WM gives him a very short leash because he has been Waldo for two years now. Walters CAN be a very good GM, he needs to show up to work tho. That being said, I hope we clean house.

It varies a lot, especially mid-season. A GM will have much less impact on the roster mid-season than in the off-season. 

I agree, Walters should have a short leash. Any of the mafia who return should. 

12 minutes ago, bb1 said:

Yeah going 10 years with double digit wins..definitely time to clean house.🙄

The house from 10 years ago HAS been cleaned. Only Mos and Walters remain. Everybody else is gone. The house from 4-5 years ago is sparse as well.  What happened 3+ years ago, has no deciding factor in what happens next year. Shelf lifes are extremely short in sports and even more so in football. 5-10 years is ancient times at the speed football moves. 
 

Dave Ritchie's entire era here was part of 5 and 1/3 seasons. If you line up the competitive parts of the time here for Ritchie, Lapo, and Dunnigan you'd still be short of 10 years. The mafia having been here 10 years doesn't make it more likely that next year will be competitive, it makes it drastically more likely that things will fall apart more and it will end sooner. 

1 minute ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

What kind of coaching staff is that??? What is so special about Mueller? As far as coaching in the CFL goes, he hasn't won a thing... yet. Even if he does on Sunday, I don't think he's ready. You're other selections? Other than Jackson. Short on coaching experience & preparation. Miller will stick with Osh wherever he goes. That would be a disaster of a staff. They'd make a good Rifles staff, though. 

yeah, Mueller is not even close to stepping up to a HC job. Realistically no HC is coming in with a bunch of guys from out side his selection as a coach. Maybe 1 or 2 top of the line guys like JY and Marty, but thats it. 

I also don't see strevy as a RB coach, and I don't think Biggie would come back this soon to coach. 

[Engelwood]

4 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

What kind of coaching staff is that??? What is so special about Mueller? As far as coaching in the CFL goes, he hasn't won a thing... yet. Even if he does on Sunday, I don't think he's ready. Your other selections? Not impressed. Other than Jackson, they're short on coaching experience & preparation. Miller will stick with Osh wherever he goes. That would be a disaster of a staff. They'd make a good Rifles staff, though. 

Just remember, everyone said the same thing about Oshea when he was hired, and Corey Mace as well. At this point, I would rather bring in someone fresher who would develop instead of some recycled coach. Who do you want? Lapo? Dyce no TY

[HardCoreBlue]

It's always interesting to me how some here use extremes when describing others when these others (most, not all) don't think and/or post in extremes from what I have read.

For example, course corrections needed at all levels does not mean clean house, fire everybody.

It means what happens to our ball club if these course corrections are not made? 

Then cue the fight between faith and doubt.

[bigg jay]

FWIW, this Berger guy says Hamilton wants Osh as GM but Milanovich stays HC.  T.O has offered the HC position with significant personnel power but Pinball stays GM

I can't see him giving up coaching for the GM role in Hamilton so does he leave Winnipeg for the exact same scenario in Toronto?  Pinball is still his boss at the end of the day, if push came to shove.

[wbbfan]

Just now, Engelwood said:

Just remember, everyone said the same thing about Oshea when he was hired, and Corey Mace as well. At this point, I would rather bring in someone fresher who would develop instead of some recycled coach. Who do you want? Lapo? Dyce no TY

The only thing odd about Mos going up to HC, is that it is odd for teams Cos to go up to HC. It is far more common for Dc and OCS to do it. But Mos was considered a candidate to be an excellent DC as well. It was a big get for us; it wasn't any kind of shock. No one thought Mos was un-special. Mace was an excellent position coach and defensive assistant before moving up to DC. Just like JY. An expert at what he coached, with the fast track. It was still too soon for him, but it had worked it. It fails way, way more often than it works, though. For every mace, you have 10 DeVone Claybrooks. Mueller isn't in that mold either. 

No comparison between an excellent imp position player who played at the highest levels and coaches up from that position, to a career as a backup, who started coaching on the other side of the ball, then spent the majority of his time coaching RBs. Mueller has been a notably good coach for 1 year. 

Frankly, I wouldn't put Mueller on a list of the top 5 OCs in the league. little on a top the list of CO candidates to move up to HC. 

1 minute ago, bigg jay said:

FWIW, this Berger guy says Hamilton wants Osh as GM but Milanovich stays HC.  T.O has offered the HC position with significant personnel power but Pinball stays GM

I can't see him giving up coaching for the GM role in Hamilton so does he leave Winnipeg for the exact same scenario in Toronto?  Pinball is still his boss at the end of the day, if push came to shove.

Wow, that is an odd offer from Hamilton. So they want to interview Danny and Mos for the same job? I can't see him wanting that. 

[HardCoreBlue]

2 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

The only thing odd about Mos going up to HC, is that it is odd for teams Cos to go up to HC. It is far more common for Dc and OCS to do it. But Mos was considered a candidate to be an excellent DC as well. It was a big get for us; it wasn't any kind of shock. No one thought Mos was un-special. Mace was an excellent position coach and defensive assistant before moving up to DC. Just like JY. An expert at what he coached, with the fast track. It was still too soon for him, but it had worked it. It fails way, way more often than it works, though. For every mace, you have 10 DeVone Claybrooks. Mueller isn't in that mold either. 

No comparison between an excellent imp position player who played at the highest levels and coaches up from that position, to a career as a backup, who started coaching on the other side of the ball, then spent the majority of his time coaching RBs. Mueller has been a notably good coach for 1 year. 

Frankly, I wouldn't put Mueller on a list of the top 5 OCs in the league. little on a top the list of CO candidates to move up to HC. 

Bring back Mike Riley!

Fine, forget it.

[SpeedFlex27]

10 minutes ago, Engelwood said:

Just remember, everyone said the same thing about Oshea when he was hired, and Corey Mace as well. At this point, I would rather bring in someone fresher who would develop instead of some recycled coach. Who do you want? Lapo? Dyce no TY

You don't hire an entire staff of Newbies. Guys who have never coached as assistants. That's a recipe for disaster. Most players have no idea what preparations coaches need to do at the pro level as well as the long hours away from family, friends as well as birthdays, recitals at school & social events.. 

[wbbfan]

9 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

It's always interesting to me how some here use extremes when describing others when these others (most, not all) don't think and/or post in extremes from what I have read.

For example, course corrections needed at all levels does not mean clean house, fire everybody.

It means what happens to our ball club if these course corrections are not made? 

Then cue the fight between faith and doubt.

Extreme change is an interesting thing in the CFL these days. (forget the rules stuff) The fact is, most teams are between heavily retooling and wholesale rebuilding their entire Secondary, DL, OL , and WR core every year. Everyone is looking for the plug-and-play DBs from college, the next pass rusher/catcher, and any kind of help they can manage on the OL. Except for the 1 or 2 contenders in any given season. And then the 1-year contract base has massive free agency turnover every year for most teams.  

The requirement for turn over might be high, but in this league the tolerance is about as high as it gets in pro sports. Out side of the lowest levels of indy baseball any way. 

[SpeedFlex27]

4 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

The only thing odd about Mos going up to HC, is that it is odd for teams Cos to go up to HC. It is far more common for Dc and OCS to do it. But Mos was considered a candidate to be an excellent DC as well. It was a big get for us; it wasn't any kind of shock. No one thought Mos was un-special. Mace was an excellent position coach and defensive assistant before moving up to DC. Just like JY. An expert at what he coached, with the fast track. It was still too soon for him, but it had worked it. It fails way, way more often than it works, though. For every mace, you have 10 DeVone Claybrooks. Mueller isn't in that mold either. 

No comparison between an excellent imp position player who played at the highest levels and coaches up from that position, to a career as a backup, who started coaching on the other side of the ball, then spent the majority of his time coaching RBs. Mueller has been a notably good coach for 1 year. 

Frankly, I wouldn't put Mueller on a list of the top 5 OCs in the league. little on a top the list of CO candidates to move up to HC. 

Give Mueller his backup qb for a year in Maier & see how brilliant he is. Mueller had Harris who had an oiutstanding year but is pushing 40.

[wbbfan]

3 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Bring back Mike Riley!

Fine, forget it.

LOL. I have always really likely Coach Riley. Whats he doing now, still in the USFL?

[bigg jay]

22 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

What kind of coaching staff is that??? What is so special about Mueller? As far as coaching in the CFL goes, he hasn't won a thing... yet. Even if he does on Sunday, I don't think he's ready. Your other selections? Not impressed. Other than Jackson, they're short on coaching experience & preparation. Miller will stick with Osh wherever he goes. That would be a disaster of a staff. They'd make a good Rifles staff, though. 

I also think the belief that Osh would leave and not take any of his guys with him is not very realistic.  Biggie is also not likely to happen as he has been very clear about not coaching when he's done. He's going to be all about his family when he hangs them up.

[wbbfan]

1 minute ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Give Mueller his backup qb for a year in Maier & see how brilliant he is. Mueller had Harris who had an oiutstanding year but is pushing 40.

That offence has lived a very charmed life this year. 

Very similar to Maksymic IMO. Though I'd put him above Mueller, because like you say, we have seen Maksymic have to macgyver together an offence with tinfoil, gum, and the angle of the sun. 

2 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

I also think the belief that Osh would leave and not take any of his guys with him is not very realistic.  Biggie is also not likely to happen as he has been very clear about not coaching when he's done. He's going to be all about his family when he hangs them up.

They always take and go get some of their guys. The biggest old boys coach ever (saying some thing considering Ricthie) is gonna go get em. 

[bigg jay]

1 minute ago, wbbfan said:

LOL. I have always really likely Coach Riley. Whats he doing now, still in the USFL?

No, his team (NJ Generals) was not part of the USFL/XFL?  He's on the College Football Playoff Selection Committee and is helping Oregon State look for their next HC which sounds like things to keep busy with in retirement.

[wbbfan]

1 minute ago, bigg jay said:

No, his team (NJ Generals) was not part of the USFL/XFL?  He's on the College Football Playoff Selection Committee and is helping Oregon State look for their next HC which sounds like things to keep busy with in retirement.

Ohh thats right. Too bad, but good for him in landing that spot. That does sound like a real cushy retirement job. 

[SpeedFlex27]

10 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

I also think the belief that Osh would leave and not take any of his guys with him is not very realistic.  Biggie is also not likely to happen as he has been very clear about not coaching when he's done. He's going to be all about his family when he hangs them up.

Miller will go for sure. Younger & JJ if one of them isn't HC

[voodoochylde]

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

GM has final say. If Walters didn't like the marine he could have released him, He's the guy that makes the call to the league office. Again, we are striving to let Walters off the hook around here. GM has final say on who is available to any coach. Just a cold hard fact. I look at all the complaints about who was rostered and still see nobody better behind them with maybe the exception of Jake Thomas.

If Walters stays I hope WM gives him a very short leash because he has been Waldo for two years now. Walters CAN be a very good GM, he needs to show up to work tho. That being said, I hope we clean house.

No, he doesn't.

He brings in talent but has no say in game day roster or who the head coach decides to keep.  What you're describing is the hallmark of a dysfunctional organization.  One of the reasons we've been so successful over the last decade is that each of Miller, Walters and O'Shea have stayed in their lanes and allowed each to do the job they've been hired for.  We can question whether or not Walters acted prudently with respect to our pending free agents or if he did enough to fill roster needs.  We can question whether or not Walters held O'Shea accountable for his decisions over the course of a season.  We can question O'Shea's in game management and roster make-up but to suggest that a GM is going to unilaterally release players without input from the coaching staff is ******* absurd.

[SpeedFlex27]

8 minutes ago, voodoochylde said:

No, he doesn't.

He brings in talent but has no say in game day roster or who the head coach decides to keep.  What you're describing is the hallmark of a dysfunctional organization.  One of the reasons we've been so successful over the last decade is that each of Miller, Walters and O'Shea have stayed in their lanes and allowed each to do the job they've been hired for.  We can question whether or not Walters acted prudently with respect to our pending free agents or if he did enough to fill roster needs.  We can question whether or not Walters held O'Shea accountable for his decisions over the course of a season.  We can question O'Shea's in game management and roster make-up but to suggest that a GM is going to unilaterally release players without input from the coaching staff is ******* absurd.

The GM doesn't have final say. It's on O'Shea as you stated. 

[rebusrankin]

What is MOS stays?