Winnipeg Blue Bombers @ Saskatchewan Roughriders GDT

[Booch]

30 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

You think we have a bunch of high level CFL starters sitting on our benches? I don't. You think Person, J.Jones, Woods, Bailey elevate us to a serious contender? They are all ham and eggers. I mean seriously, is this the crux of the debate? Is this who people are clamoring for? I'm not saying any and all of them don't necessarily represent an upgrade here or there but if so it would be very little of one and certainly not enough to win us the games we are losing. No one is defending MOS's coaching but I think there are a crap load of people here leaving the true cause of our problems out of their crosshairs. When it comes to our front office/coaching this fiasco of a season is 80% Walters fault and 20% MOS and crew. Anyone saying that MOS can't win if you give him the horses hasn't been watching our last 7 seasons. We simply are outclassed in the talent department. MOS is making some crap choices too, but he doesn't exactly have a boat load of reasonable options either.

dont know ubntil they get full reps....and if they dont...why they here whan 2/3rds of the guys in front of them dont appear to be viable

They wouldnt make us worse thats for sure

Thing is in this part of season you cant bring in all new guys....but you can use it as a advanced training camp/audition for next yrs camp...and team tho.....and not waste roster space and time bringing many back next yr if it obvious they are no better....start the process now....not in TC....With many of the same characters who you just dont know about yet....find out now....get ahead of the game

And you cannot say with any certainty how much say/influence Osh has on who Walters signs...or doesnt...he may have hella sway...he may not

From my time in football tho a HC will tell his g.m and scouts what he wants/needs in a player...and they try to full fill it....If he said we good with some the slugs we have...and find me some jobbers on teams....you think the scouts and g.m are gonna do opposite of what their HC requested?

Fact of the mater there is a good portion of the roster just not good enough....too old....or majorly screwing the pooch casue they feel/lmow they are safe

So....the smart minds would pull some for some the PR guys they are carrying...hence why they here and run them thru trial by fire...and if they not good enough...or show no upside....why they even here?...get rid of them

Osh should be saying player a...b...c...etc just arent good enough...bring in some guys....

J.Jones is not an ham and egger either..T.Jones is more that than J.Jones...except in Osh eyes

And when have you seen Bailey play to make that statement?...Person as well...hardly a ham and egger...cant judge him on 18 reps all yr

13 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

A few little upgrades = bigger overall upgrade... seriously the margins in the cfl between winning and losing are generally pretty small.

And, if you try your depth for underperforming players and they don't work out then you move on from them too and find better depth. You don't just shrug and go "oh well, it is what it is for the season"

yeah...a slightly better DT makes the other guys better...as they get less attention

Same at center...a legit center makes your guards automatically better

A mlb with consistent drops in coverage...ability to read a play and meet ball carrier in the hole...and not have him come to him 3 yards past l.o.s...makes your run defence better...etc...etc....piss poor guys....do nothing for the other 11 guys on the field other than make their jobs harder

we are in perpetual never know here as nobody gets a shot...even with sub par play in front of them...Who can say Shay or Smith be no worse than say Wilson...but offer more upside...we cant...because naty a rep they get....they should be getting 4..5..6 reps a game to get integrated and see what they have

34 minutes ago, the watcher said:

Agreed, everyone's ability slides eventually.  That's a good coaches job to

 recognize that.  It gets into the " you're the head coach ,not their buddy " thing.

loyalty to a player(s)only gets you so far...more times than not gets you a ticket ouuta town tho

 

35 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Osh trust and loyalty would constitute no problem for us with proper GMing. That is undeniable because the proof is out there historically. I get that people are angry now that our talent is crap that MOS is using the same tactics and hasn't adjusted to the circumstances, and that is fair criticism. However, at the end of the day when provided the talent MOS has clearly demonstrated that he can coach a team to both win GCs and to be perennial favorites/finalists. There is no arguing that fact because it is entrenched in history. Could he have done better along the way...maybe. However, he brought us an unprecedented run of success with his style so again I ask what is truly the majority of the problem...talent or coaching? I think that it is very clear we do not have the talent....and yes what we do have is being further hampered by poor coaching decisions and coordination.

I am fully in favor of firing our coaching crew if we don't make the playoffs. However, it had better come after a Walters firing or else we will just get more crap GMing. I would LOVE to see Walters replaced by Rigmaiden this offseason. 

not maybe...unequivocally 

[SaidinBlue]

Not playing other players because they could be bad vs keep on playing bad players that are bad....

[Booch]

Just now, SaidinBlue said:

Not playing other players because they could be bad vs keep on playing bad players that are bad....

and if they are bad...why they here? get others in

Also...i've heard somewhere they all starters...are in the building casue they give us a chance to win....we like what they bring

Well then...why dont they play for the under performers?....or at times...clearly injured guys

[Brandon]

It just feels like the Blue 3 seasons ago were able to physically beat up teams and roll in depth players to keep legs fresh and were able to out muscle teams which would then lead to the turnovers on D and far more holes for the run game + time in the pocket for Zach.     I said the same thing last season around this time of the year,  they haven't been able to dominate anything at all. 

This team has absolutely no edge and are limping along.  We need fresh faces and a pulse badly.  

[Goalie]

Issue appears to be mainly OL and DL related. Let’s check the PR. Ohhh umm well…. Hmm ok. 
 

2 DT in Adams and woods and a DE in bailey. 
 

and OL we got Vibert and Mayers. 
 

get them on  

 

[GCn20]

22 hours ago, Booch said:

and if they are bad...why they here? get others in

Also...i've heard somewhere they all starters...are in the building casue they give us a chance to win....we like what they bring

Well then...why dont they play for the under performers?....or at times...clearly injured guys

That is not what you heard. What you heard is the coach saying they are expected to all prepare as if they are all capable to start. Doesn`t mean they are better or even remotely as good as the guy ahead of them.  It is nonsense to take something out of context like that. No team has 53 starters on their roster, and neither do we. The guys in our starting 24 are there because of either ratio or they are deemed to be the best chance to win. Some guys are very clearly not good enough to start and that's just fact. If you want to play musical chairs at positions where guys have underperformed then you are taking all continuity away and close losses will turn into blowouts. You are aware of this, you have played the game.  I am all in favor of bringing in talent and trying it out, but trotting out known commodities that are not starting and hoping they do better you will be lucky if 10% actually are.  It is insane to think that any of our backups if inserted on mass into the lineup will make us a contender. That is dreaming in technicolor. Fact of the matter is that if we have a crappy starting lineup, we also have either crappy or not ready players behind them. I don't think that varies at all from team to team, or sport to sport and is a pretty universal truth in all sports. Sure you might get lightning in a bottle once in a while where a guy comes off the bench out of nowhere and excels but that is the exception to the rule not the rule itself.

That being said, just for the sake of opening up some guys eyes about the reality of how they are stinking up the joint we should shake up the lineup a little bit.....but it likely means a downgrade in our chance to win in the short term but long term it might wake a player or two up.

20 hours ago, Goalie said:

Issue appears to be mainly OL and DL related. Let’s check the PR. Ohhh umm well…. Hmm ok. 
 

2 DT in Adams and woods and a DE in bailey. 
 

and OL we got Vibert and Mayers. 
 

get them on  

 

It is MOS`s fault that we have no depth, haven`t you heard

Edited 6 hours ago by GCn20

[GCn20]

22 hours ago, 17to85 said:

A few little upgrades = bigger overall upgrade... seriously the margins in the cfl between winning and losing are generally pretty small.

And, if you try your depth for underperforming players and they don't work out then you move on from them too and find better depth. You don't just shrug and go "oh well, it is what it is for the season"

I agree with that. However, you can`t go fullscale or you lose continuity and then you have a different reason for losing.

22 hours ago, Booch said:

and if they are bad...why they here? get others in

Also...i've heard somewhere they all starters...are in the building casue they give us a chance to win....we like what they bring

Well then...why dont they play for the under performers?....or at times...clearly injured guys

This failure that I bolded is by far our biggest problem. We can sit here and talk about tweaking our roster all day long and none of that adds up to more wins for us unless we get better players. Simple as that. There isn`t a roster combination we can field right now that makes us serious contenders.

[Booch]

14 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

That is not what you heard. What you heard is the coach saying they are expected to all prepare as if they are all capable to start. Doesn`t mean they are better or even remotely as good as the guy ahead of them.  It is nonsense to take something out of context like that. No team has 53 starters on their roster, and neither do we. The guys in our starting 24 are there because of either ratio or they are deemed to be the best chance to win. Some guys are very clearly not good enough to start and that's just fact. If you want to play musical chairs at positions where guys have underperformed then you are taking all continuity away and close losses will turn into blowouts. You are aware of this, you have played the game.  I am all in favor of bringing in talent and trying it out, but trotting out known commodities that are not starting and hoping they do better you will be lucky if 10% actually are.  It is insane to think that any of our backups if inserted on mass into the lineup will make us a contender. That is dreaming in technicolor. Fact of the matter is that if we have a crappy starting lineup, we also have either crappy or not ready players behind them. I don't think that varies at all from team to team, or sport to sport and is a pretty universal truth in all sports. Sure you might get lightning in a bottle once in a while where a guy comes off the bench out of nowhere and excels but that is the exception to the rule not the rule itself.

That being said, just for the sake of opening up some guys eyes about the reality of how they are stinking up the joint we should shake up the lineup a little bit.....but it likely means a downgrade in our chance to win in the short term but long term it might wake a player or two up.

It is MOS`s fault that we have no depth, haven`t you heard

Go back and listen to.soundbites or read...they are all number 1's...that's why they are here....

[17to85]

Yeah osh has definitely said they're all starters.

[wbbfan]

23 minutes ago, Booch said:

Go back and listen to.soundbites or read...they are all number 1's...that's why they are here....

He's said that countless times every year since 18/19. 

[17to85]

It's hyperbole for sure, but it's not out of context misquote at all.

47 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

I agree with that. However, you can`t go fullscale or you lose continuity and then you have a different reason for losing

No one is advocating full scale, but if you have these glaring issues at certain positions standing pat is not an answer. Like centre, or DT. 

[Tracker]

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

 

That being said, just for the sake of opening up some guys eyes about the reality of how they are stinking up the joint we should shake up the lineup a little bit.....but it likely means a downgrade in our chance to win in the short term but long term it might wake a player or two up.

It is MOS`s fault that we have no depth, haven`t you heard

To an extent it is. O'Shea has been fielding his chosen ones to the exclusion of the new arrivals who showed some potential and ultimately left. This does not exonerate Walters as he bears ultimate responsibility for overseeing the player attainment and also allowing O'Shea to create a good deal of this mess the team is in.