Bombers at Stamps early chat

[Booch]

Just now, wbbfan said:

That's a fair point. If we piss away this season though, I think things will get ugly. The casual fans aren't going to be happy with us not going the extra mile to win the GC in a host year. Instead of a few of us being upset with roster management, it'll get much bigger. I've got love for all the mafia guys, past and current. They've got to do more than maintain, though. 

if we piss it away due to much of the same crap....Change may be a good thing...an 11 yr run as a HC is a long tenure in any sport....and as much as many dont like to believe....if we move on from a coach or 2...things wont fall off a cliff....the way we do business and the culture is what it is...and we wont be getting rid of all our key core either....not gonna happen,

[M.O.A.B.]

7 minutes ago, Booch said:

if we piss it away due to much of the same crap....Change may be a good thing...an 11 yr run as a HC is a long tenure in any sport....and as much as many dont like to believe....if we move on from a coach or 2...things wont fall off a cliff....the way we do business and the culture is what it is...and we wont be getting rid of all our key core either....not gonna happen,

Then, hopefully you become the head coach so we can see how good you are. 

[Booch]

1 minute ago, M.O.A.B. said:

Then, hopefully you become the head coach so we can see how good you are. 

ha!....You'de be surprised....I'd definitely have a better game day lineup thats more practical...and guys would be getting reps and experience ....And the best players would play 

Just because a person isn't coaching in the CFL doesnt mean they less than others....some take different career paths...I also work with and train prep NCAA/Juco and even fringe pro free-agent players for conditioning camps...combine prep and free agent camps, along with coached Prep School teams in SoCal....so have a pretty good handle on things...and played the game for 24 yrs at varying levels on both sides of the border.....Not saying I know it all and am better than he..she...him...they....but it also ait rocket science and our failures of recent here are of the same general 3 issues...any coach I know and have played under or worked with figured that out after their flop...and changed....here...hasnt happened

[Goalie]

Oh for Christ’s sake, you actually think you know more. Yeah. That’s just crazy talk. What has a Bailey or person done to deserve a spot ? Which American do you take out to put in person? Some of you were trumpeting haggerty then oh my god he got released for the 3rd time. If this was hockey lots of these complaints ppl have would be equivalent to the 4th line and 3rd pairing D. Really those guys ain’t making the difference. 

[17to85]

8 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Oh for Christ’s sake, you actually think you know more. Yeah. That’s just crazy talk. What has a Bailey or person done to deserve a spot ? Which American do you take out to put in person? Some of you were trumpeting haggerty then oh my god he got released for the 3rd time. If this was hockey lots of these complaints ppl have would be equivalent to the 4th line and 3rd pairing D. Really those guys ain’t making the difference. 

That's easy, a linebacker. 

This group does an awful lot of good things, but the way they've utilized the defensive line the last few years is bad. Full stop. 

The way they refuse to sit hurt guys in important moments is bad flat out.

[wbbfan]

5 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

That's easy, a linebacker. 

This group does an awful lot of good things, but the way they've utilized the defensive line the last few years is bad. Full stop. 

The way they refuse to sit hurt guys in important moments is bad flat out.

Really, is that easy for Person, also vanterpool, for Bailey, you could have Sergio punt, go with 6ol, take off Kornelson, Have gauthier snap instead of Laroux, etc. 

Kornelson hasn't outperformed anyone for his spot. Ayers isn't an end and has been brutal on the edge in short yardage. We don't need 3 Canadian DTs for 1 starting spot. We have 1 backup NI WR for 2 starters. 1 backup RB for 1 starter. Etc. 

You have two guys who actually play the position that we have zero depth on the AR at. And a bunch of guys who play teams are taking spots from those guys. We won the GCs by winning the battle in both trenches. Not just OL. 

What happens if WJ or Vaughters go down? They have a combined age of 66 and play virtually every snap on D. We roll with Ayers, who has only played edge in the short-yardage plays, and has been bad at that, play every snap? We split him 50/50 with our only imp DT, while playing an end of the roster Canadian who wouldn't make any other team every single snap? 

As is, without them getting hurt, WJ and Vaughters have NOT been effective. That isn't going to change on its own. And we are blitzing a lot this year to create pressure, which is why we've struggled giving up big plays this year. We've given up as many as we've had, and are among the league leaders in big plays given up per game. 

[17to85]

17 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

What happens if WJ or Vaughters go down? They have a combined age of 66 and play virtually every snap on D. We roll with Ayers, who has only played edge in the short-yardage plays, and has been bad at that, play every snap? We split him 50/50 with our only imp DT, while playing an end of the roster Canadian who wouldn't make any other team every single snap? 

Yeah the big thing for me is their mainstays on DL are Willie and Jake at 34 years old and the young gun Vaughters at 32.... that's not sustainable. We desperately need an injection of youth at end to keep the old guys fresh. At this rate we'll burn them out by the end of summer.

[Booch]

20 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Really, is that easy for Person, also vanterpool, for Bailey, you could have Sergio punt, go with 6ol, take off Kornelson, Have gauthier snap instead of Laroux, etc. 

Kornelson hasn't outperformed anyone for his spot. Ayers isn't an end and has been brutal on the edge in short yardage. We don't need 3 Canadian DTs for 1 starting spot. We have 1 backup NI WR for 2 starters. 1 backup RB for 1 starter. Etc. 

You have two guys who actually play the position that we have zero depth on the AR at. And a bunch of guys who play teams are taking spots from those guys. We won the GCs by winning the battle in both trenches. Not just OL. 

What happens if WJ or Vaughters go down? They have a combined age of 66 and play virtually every snap on D. We roll with Ayers, who has only played edge in the short-yardage plays, and has been bad at that, play every snap? We split him 50/50 with our only imp DT, while playing an end of the roster Canadian who wouldn't make any other team every single snap? 

As is, without them getting hurt, WJ and Vaughters have NOT been effective. That isn't going to change on its own. And we are blitzing a lot this year to create pressure, which is why we've struggled giving up big plays this year. We've given up as many as we've had, and are among the league leaders in big plays given up per game. 

yup our roster construct and usage of guys is bad...we getting by in spit of it...like other yrs but when rubber meets road...we get owned when it really counts

Ayers is NOT and end and you are correct....the od snap he gets there are just bad...and we are risking WJ/Vaughters getting hurt playing every snap almost, and yeah...they will have to take plays off....and with no real back-up an injury to one....or both..we hooped

Vaterpool is a luxury and not a need....and he eats a valuable spot that is sorely needed on defence. We should be using both Shay and Smith for reps at WIL and MLB and gauging what they can do...and get experience....could allow us to dump an import linebacker...and the dressing of 3 Canadian DT's...2 of whom are bottom rung guys in the league...not just our roster is pointless...Use One their spots on Cobb to have receiver and returner depth, add Bailey....Weitz offers nothing but Bailey does....Person can play edge....be a pain inside as well in certain formations and can also drop out into the flats...guy can run and played OLB in school....our front could be so more dynamic and better suited to younger's scheme with a few small tweeks but we refuse to do it....and it's Osh preference over actual talent....and J.Jones not on for one of Wilson...Jones is also just idiotic...the most complete LB we have....isnt on roster

The part about all this that reeks of past season's is we will get into injury issues...thats a fact...and no guys will be prepared or have any cohesion with the starters....let alone experience tosee if they can actually be a difference maker and we will trot out wounded and worn out guys yet again

[wbbfan]

18 minutes ago, Booch said:

yup our roster construct and usage of guys is bad...we getting by in spit of it...like other yrs but when rubber meets road...we get owned when it really counts

Ayers is NOT and end and you are correct....the od snap he gets there are just bad...and we are risking WJ/Vaughters getting hurt playing every snap almost, and yeah...they will have to take plays off....and with no real back-up an injury to one....or both..we hooped

Vaterpool is a luxury and not a need....and he eats a valuable spot that is sorely needed on defence. We should be using both Shay and Smith for reps at WIL and MLB and gauging what they can do...and get experience....could allow us to dump an import linebacker...and the dressing of 3 Canadian DT's...2 of whom are bottom rung guys in the league...not just our roster is pointless...Use One their spots on Cobb to have receiver and returner depth, add Bailey....Weitz offers nothing but Bailey does....Person can play edge....be a pain inside as well in certain formations and can also drop out into the flats...guy can run and played OLB in school....our front could be so more dynamic and better suited to younger's scheme with a few small tweeks but we refuse to do it....and it's Osh preference over actual talent....and J.Jones not on for one of Wilson...Jones is also just idiotic...the most complete LB we have....isnt on roster

The part about all this that reeks of past season's is we will get into injury issues...thats a fact...and no guys will be prepared or have any cohesion with the starters....let alone experience tosee if they can actually be a difference maker and we will trot out wounded and worn out guys yet again

On D, our backups break down like this

Don't play Defensive reps: Vaval, Smith, Shay, Gauthier, Novak, Cadwallader, Hallett, and Ayers.

Kornelson and Lawson rotate for Adams when Griffin comes in.  

That's 2 defensive DI's who don't play D, our highest upside young guys (4 of them) don't get reps, and our ends just live on the field. 

 

On O, we bring in Eli for a handful of snaps, as well as MCI, Peterson, and Corcoran is a depth/teams guy. Wallace will come in for short-yardage pack at most. 

 

Carrying MCI, 2 backup OL, and 2 backup NI DTs when half can sub for the other in short-yardage is crazy. I'd keep MCI, which is growing and big enough to bully small guys and talented enough to back up skill positions. But we could easily go down the big inside Canadians and dress someone who plays and has a chance to make a positive impact. When 90% of your snaps are goal-line plays and fg kicks, you don't have much of a chance to contribute. We need guys to fill those roles, but we don't need a half unit of backups for those roles. 

We do need guys who can rotate at positions like DE. You can see the sharp decline in WJs production when we stopped rotating ends with Hansen/Kongbo, and when we stopped employing an imp Nose. If younger, healthier WJ couldn't succeed in that situation, how is older WJ, who has been beaten up by every OL in the league, going to? 

This isn't some controversial, highly theoretical proposition here. We are talking about thinning out the crop of guys who hardly play teams, for guys who are professionals at what we lack. If Bailey and Person don't work out, air lift in more. All they've done, though, is show strong promise when given the chance. So it's pretty reasonable to believe that they would enable us to get more pressure than the virtually none our base fronts have been providing for a long while. 

[Booch]

1 hour ago, wbbfan said:

On D, our backups break down like this

Don't play Defensive reps: Vaval, Smith, Shay, Gauthier, Novak, Cadwallader, Hallett, and Ayers.

Kornelson and Lawson rotate for Adams when Griffin comes in.  

That's 2 defensive DI's who don't play D, our highest upside young guys (4 of them) don't get reps, and our ends just live on the field. 

 

On O, we bring in Eli for a handful of snaps, as well as MCI, Peterson, and Corcoran is a depth/teams guy. Wallace will come in for short-yardage pack at most. 

 

Carrying MCI, 2 backup OL, and 2 backup NI DTs when half can sub for the other in short-yardage is crazy. I'd keep MCI, which is growing and big enough to bully small guys and talented enough to back up skill positions. But we could easily go down the big inside Canadians and dress someone who plays and has a chance to make a positive impact. When 90% of your snaps are goal-line plays and fg kicks, you don't have much of a chance to contribute. We need guys to fill those roles, but we don't need a half unit of backups for those roles. 

We do need guys who can rotate at positions like DE. You can see the sharp decline in WJs production when we stopped rotating ends with Hansen/Kongbo, and when we stopped employing an imp Nose. If younger, healthier WJ couldn't succeed in that situation, how is older WJ, who has been beaten up by every OL in the league, going to? 

This isn't some controversial, highly theoretical proposition here. We are talking about thinning out the crop of guys who hardly play teams, for guys who are professionals at what we lack. If Bailey and Person don't work out, air lift in more. All they've done, though, is show strong promise when given the chance. So it's pretty reasonable to believe that they would enable us to get more pressure than the virtually none our base fronts have been providing for a long while. 

Yup it is poss poor...we have zero receiever depth and can be argued our 5th guy really doesnt offer us much that we could get out of any American...or even a Canadian...I bet Cobb would offer as much and free's up a DI.....If we maybe had a DI who returned kicks and was a legit receiving threat that would be great...but seems we didnt evem think of that as we brought in Logan as the returner, and how is he even gonna get on the feild...will Osh drop Vaval for him?

Defensively we really after Lawson..Adams..WJ & Vaughters have no dline depth...sure they roster Thomas and Korneslson but they are bodies filling up the roster...and if that is the extent of the "depth" or guys that can be legitimate starters if need be....or quality rotation guys who aren't a serious drop off...or athletes you can do different things with...then thats pretty effin sad thats the best we could muster up...and that basically 3+ yrs running

Since we lost Stove/Sayles/Nevis we basically have stood pat ad never really addressed that...We finally got some serious athletic interior guys last yr but they still basically played second fiddle when we didnt even need a Canadian on the feild, and actually one of them got dropped from the roster (Adams) and we saw even more of Thomas and Schmeck...Woods got banged up late in yr and Adams still didnt get back on......just brutal

But hey we have 11..12 linebackers dressed...3 who actually can play....Gauthier who now is a hit or miss now...2 (SHay and Smith) who ooze with athleticism and talent but dont get a rep...and a whack who should never see the feild in a defensive situation....thats a bad back half of a roster

[Brandon]

I yearn for the old days when we had a gluttony of guys coming and going on the d-line who could play.   

[bb1]

14 minutes ago, Booch said:

Yup it is poss poor...we have zero receiever depth and can be argued our 5th guy really doesnt offer us much that we could get out of any American...or even a Canadian...I bet Cobb would offer as much and free's up a DI.....If we maybe had a DI who returned kicks and was a legit receiving threat that would be great...but seems we didnt evem think of that as we brought in Logan as the returner, and how is he even gonna get on the feild...will Osh drop Vaval for him?

Defensively we really after Lawson..Adams..WJ & Vaughters have no dline depth...sure they roster Thomas and Korneslson but they are bodies filling up the roster...and if that is the extent of the "depth" or guys that can be legitimate starters if need be....or quality rotation guys who aren't a serious drop off...or athletes you can do different things with...then thats pretty effin sad thats the best we could muster up...and that basically 3+ yrs running

Since we lost Stove/Sayles/Nevis we basically have stood pat ad never really addressed that...We finally got some serious athletic interior guys last yr but they still basically played second fiddle when we didnt even need a Canadian on the feild, and actually one of them got dropped from the roster (Adams) and we saw even more of Thomas and Schmeck...Woods got banged up late in yr and Adams still didnt get back on......just brutal

But hey we have 11..12 linebackers dressed...3 who actually can play....Gauthier who now is a hit or miss now...2 (SHay and Smith) who ooze with athleticism and talent but dont get a rep...and a whack who should never see the feild in a defensive situation....thats a badi back half of a roster

I am going to answer this not to start more of an argument but just to state a fact. MOS  is about slanting his roster for special teams,hence so many Lbs...not saying it is right or wrong myself. But it is what MOS believes and for me..that is a good enough reason since he has won more games and more Cups than anyone back to Cal Murphy. 

[wbbfan]

7 minutes ago, Brandon said:

I yearn for the old days when we had a gluttony of guys coming and going on the d-line who could play.   

Yeah, I miss those days. We could throw any combination in a bunch of varied fronts and get pressure, plus shut down the run. Everyone was fresh and playing a million miles an hour. OLs looked haggard against us. 

Funny thing is, the better Ds in the league outside of ours are all doing this now. Heavy rotations on deep DLs, focused on getting disruption and pressure, not just sacks. Toronto is running 9 DL this week. So are the riders. We are running 7, but 1 is a lber, and 2 of the other 6 are Korny and Thomas. We got 4 guys total who can get after it, and they won't play but maybe a single snap together. 

[wbbfan]

3 minutes ago, bb1 said:

I am going to answer this not to start more of an argument but just to state a fact. MOS  is about slanting his roster for special teams,hence so many Lbs...not saying it is right or wrong myself. But it is what MOS believes and for me..that is a good enough reason since he has won more games and more Cups than anyone back to Cal Murphy. 

We used to run heavy amounts of DL. 7-8 lbers used to be heavy for us. 9-11 was unthinkable.  We've always dressed teams guys as lbers for sure under Mos. And it does make sense to have those guys who kick cover be LBers. Having so much of the roster taken up by guys who can't play O or D with no real back-ups at positions like WR, DE, etc is wild. 

If we didn't chance into zach, the mafia as we know it doesn't exist here today. We ended up with a massively overpowered squad, and for the most part, we are coasting on that since 19/21. 

[Booch]

17 minutes ago, bb1 said:

I am going to answer this not to start more of an argument but just to state a fact. MOS  is about slanting his roster for special teams,hence so many Lbs...not saying it is right or wrong myself. But it is what MOS believes and for me..that is a good enough reason since he has won more games and more Cups than anyone back to Cal Murphy. 

yeah he def slants that way...but its not a good slant...yiu can have ST guys tho who can also play....there is that slant.....he also lost more than any too...theres another slant 😁

 

15 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Yeah, I miss those days. We could throw any combination in a bunch of varied fronts and get pressure, plus shut down the run. Everyone was fresh and playing a million miles an hour. OLs looked haggard against us. 

Funny thing is, the better Ds in the league outside of ours are all doing this now. Heavy rotations on deep DLs, focused on getting disruption and pressure, not just sacks. Toronto is running 9 DL this week. So are the riders. We are running 7, but 1 is a lber, and 2 of the other 6 are Korny and Thomas. We got 4 guys total who can get after it, and they won't play but maybe a single snap together. 

that rotation has killed us in several cups too....you would think our coach would see that....People like to blame the oline as being inferior or the reason....but they got worn out facing 6..7 guys who could all play all being fresh...and making our line looked ragged and worn out....just like we were doing in 2019 and 2021.....hmmmm....imagine eh??

 

13 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

We used to run heavy amounts of DL. 7-8 lbers used to be heavy for us. 9-11 was unthinkable.  We've always dressed teams guys as lbers for sure under Mos. And it does make sense to have those guys who kick cover be LBers. Having so much of the roster taken up by guys who can't play O or D with no real back-ups at positions like WR, DE, etc is wild. 

If we didn't chance into zach, the mafia as we know it doesn't exist here today. We ended up with a massively overpowered squad, and for the most part, we are coasting on that since 19/21. 

we rode the good fortune of some really good guys in their prime that over compensated for the back end slanted roster...we dont have that now and by season's end...injuries....gassed guys and no rotational depth...has killed us

Teams always have to adapt...and re-invent themselves a bit...purge on the fly (and not due to injury only)...we havn't....

[HardCoreBlue]

2 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Yeah the big thing for me is their mainstays on DL are Willie and Jake at 34 years old and the young gun Vaughters at 32.... that's not sustainable. We desperately need an injection of youth at end to keep the old guys fresh. At this rate we'll burn them out by the end of summer.

JT gets to go out on his own terms = get use to playing like there’s 11 players on the  field during his reps.

[Tracker]

4 hours ago, wbbfan said:

That's a fair point. If we piss away this season though, I think things will get ugly. The casual fans aren't going to be happy with us not going the extra mile to win the GC in a host year. Instead of a few of us being upset with roster management, it'll get much bigger. I've got love for all the mafia guys, past and current. They've got to do more than maintain, though. 

I thought that O'Shea and possibly our GM would have had the riot act read to them after the debacle of the last Grey Cup, but there is no visiblle change in the M.O. of the management of the team so far. Walter & Co. have done a decent job of recruiting, so may warrant a bit more slack. O'Shea will keep doing what he is doing the way he is doing it until he is fired or quits.

[Booch]

29 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

JT gets to go out on his own terms = get use to playing like there’s 11 players on the  field during his reps.

be curious to see how much extra he sucks tonight...no practice all week...sick....limited wind and finish at best of times.....and then...how many effin reps he gonna eat up ???....that be the interesting thing...a coach with teams "best" interest at hand would have him soley for injury depth if one occurs and limit his reps....if not just have him be this glue some speak of on the sidelines and be all gluey

A smarter coach would have left hi at home and dressed Schmeck to give him a shot to see if he worth keeping around...or Cobb as a receiver/returner depth....but thats about as likely to ever happen here as a player getting hit by lightening while taking a kick back for a sure td to win the game...and just not making it in the endzone lol

2 minutes ago, Tracker said:

I thought that O'Shea and possibly our GM would have had the riot act read to them after the debacle of the last Grey Cup, but there is no visiblle change in the M.O. of the management of the team so far. Walter & Co. have done a decent job of recruiting, so may warrant a bit more slack. O'Shea will keep doing what he is doing the way he is doing it until he is fired or quits.

maybe thats why neither are re-signed yet...Ol Dawg Miller said earn it this yr and we will talk.....aka dont eff **** up this time....things that make you go hmmmmm eh?

 

[Tracker]

5 minutes ago, Booch said:

be curious to see how much extra he sucks tonight...no practice all week...sick....limited wind and finish at best of times.....and then...how many effin reps he gonna eat up ???....that be the interesting thing...a coach with teams "best" interest at hand would have him soley for injury depth if one occurs and limit his reps....if not just have him be this glue some speak of on the sidelines and be all gluey

A smarter coach would have left hi at home and dressed Schmeck to give him a shot to see if he worth keeping around...or Cobb as a receiver/returner depth....but thats about as likely to ever happen here as a player getting hit by lightening while taking a kick back for a sure td to win the game...and just not making it in the endzone lol

maybe thats why neither are re-signed yet...Ol Dawg Miller said earn it this yr and we will talk.....aka dont eff **** up this time....things that make you go hmmmmm eh?

 

Hard to tell what goes on behind closed doors, so all we have to go on is demonstrated behaviours, and so far, its business as ususal. Rinse and repeat.

Edited 4 hours ago by Tracker

[SpeedFlex27]

7 hours ago, wbbfan said:

That's a fair point. If we piss away this season though, I think things will get ugly. The casual fans aren't going to be happy with us not going the extra mile to win the GC in a host year. Instead of a few of us being upset with roster management, it'll get much bigger. I've got love for all the mafia guys, past and current. They've got to do more than maintain, though. 

This off season was like buying a loaf of stale bread. The excuse to not spend money in free agency & blaming the CFLPA looks petty & stupid. They have to be calld out for that. 

[rebusrankin]

MOS and Walters would have gotten fired if we didn't win the 2019 cup.

Hopefully we see some roster changes as the year goes on.

[Goalie]

31 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

This off season was like buying a loaf of stale bread. The excuse to not spend money in free agency & blaming the CFLPA looks petty & stupid. They have to be calld out for that. 

They are 3 and O tho so not sure why the complaining. Hamilton with all their free agent signings just won their 1st game. 
 

historically bombers free agent signings at receiver don’t work either. Dressler was the last one as I don’t consider lawler really established when we originally signed him.  There’s a list of guys we signed as free agents a mile long who ain’t in the league no more. Why do ppl want to overpay players so badly ?? Like in reality lots of those free agents ppl wanted, they weren’t ever signing here. 
 

ceresna? Wife family from the Edmonton area. Lawler? He’s not worth the $$$. Wheatfall has essentially replaced him.  McMannis stayed in T dot. I mean. Not everyone wants to be in Winnipeg. 

Edited 1 hour ago by Goalie

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, rebusrankin said:

MOS and Walters would have gotten fired if we didn't win the 2019 cup.

Hopefully we see some roster changes as the year goes on.

I think atleast one head would’ve rolled yeah. 

[Booch]

8 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

I think atleast one head would’ve rolled yeah. 

one or both could roll this yr too with an epic flop again...12 yrs is a longtime

Edited 15 minutes ago by Booch

[wbbfan]

8 minutes ago, Booch said:

one or both could roll this yr too with an epic flop again...12 yrs is a longtime

Idk. At this point I have no clue what the lines are for the upper brass to pull the trigger. 
 I do see some guys In the new hires who are on the come up though. I think the front office is as well situated as it’s been in a while. The coaching staff is too.