The MBB All-Time Blue Bomber Team: Quarterback

[TrueBlue4ever]

Here are the bios:

Passing stats will be broken down into completions, attempts, completion percentage, yards, TDs, INTs, long, and QB efficiency rating (calculated using the US model out of 158.3 maximum) for the career, with the best single season total for each category in brackets with the corresponding year in parentheses, following the career numbers. The “best” year for INTs will actually be the lowest total, given a minimum of 200 pass attempts.

Rushing stats will be attempts, yards, average, long, and TDs, career, then best individual season in brackets for each category.

 

Jack Jacobs – 74 gp in 5 seasons (1950-54)

Passing: 709/1330, 53.3%, 11094 yds, 104 TD, 53 INT, 100 long, 90.72 rating

[204 (‘51)/355 (’51), 57.9% (’53), 3248 yds (’51), 34 TD (’52), 10 INT (’51), 100 long (’51), 107.76 (’51)]

2 time divisional all-star (1950, 52), 2 Grey Cup appearances (1950, 53), led West division in passing yards 3 times (1951-53), led CFL in TD passes 3 times (1951-53), CFL Hall of Fame

 

Ken Ploen – 156 gp in 11 seasons (1957-67)

Passing: 1084/1916, 56.6%, 16470 yds, 119 TD, 106 INT, 96 long, 82.7 rating

[257 (‘66)/153 (’66), 65.9% (’62), 2323 yds (’66), 17 TD (’62), 4 INT (’62), 96 long (’66), 118.21 (’62)]

Rushing: 588-3001-5.1-81-13 [100 (’57) – 541 (’60) – 8.0 (’60) – 81 (’63) – 4 (’60)]

3 time divisional all-star (1957, 59, 65), CFL all star (1965), 2 time team MOP (1957, 64), 6 Grey Cup appearances (1957-59, 61, 62, 65), 4 time Grey Cup champion (1958, 59, 61, 62), Grey Cup MVP (1961), CFL Hall of Fame

 

Don Jonas – 54 gp in 4 seasons (1971-74)

Passing: 821/1553, 52.9%, 12291 yds, 77 TD, 95 INT, 103 long, 70.15 rating

[253 (‘71)/485 (’71), 56.4% (’72), 4036 yds (’71), 27 TD (’72), 26 INT (’72), 103 long (’73), 78.36 (’72)

Rushing: 73-245-3.4-25-7 [27 (’73) – 81 (’72) – 4.5 (’72) – 25 (’71) – 4 (’71)]

2 time divisional all-star (1971, 72), 2 time CFL all star (1971, 72), 2 time team MOP (1971, 73), West/CFL MOP (1971), led CFL in passing yards 2 times (1971, 72), led CFL in TD passes 2 times (1971, 72), CFL Hall of Fame

 

Dieter Brock – 149 gp in 10 seasons (1974-83)

Passing: 2168/3777, 57.4%, 29623 yds, 187 TD, 129 INT, 98 long, 84.87 rating

[354 (‘81)/566 (’81), 62.5% (’81), 4796 yds (’81), 32 TD (’81), 9 INT (’75), 98 long (’77), 97.31 (’81)]

Rushing: 328-979-3.0-31-24 [62 (’77) – 220 (’77) – 4.8 (’75) – 31 (’75) – 6 (’77)]

3 time divisional all-star (1980-82), 2 time CFL all star (1980, 81), 4 time team MOP (1978, 80-82), 2 time West/CFL MOP (1980, 81), led CFL in passing yards 3 times (1978, 81, 82) and the West a 4^th time (1979), led CFL in TD passes 3 times (1977, 80, 81), CFL Hall of Fame

 

Tom Clements – 61 gp in 5 seasons (1983-87)

Passing: 1075/1779, 60.4%, 14197 yds, 102 TD, 81 INT, 105 long, 85.83 rating

[336 (‘87)/592 (’87), 67.6% (’86), 4686 yds (’87), 35 TD (’87), 11 INT (’86), 105 long (’85), 100.8 (’86)

Rushing: 96-222-2.3-17-5 [31 (’87) – 101 (’84) – 3.7 (’84) – 17 (’85) – 2 (’87)]

2 time divisional all-star (1984, 87), 2 time CFL all star (1984, 87), team/East/CFL MOP (1987), Grey Cup appearance (1984), Grey Cup champion (1984), Grey Cup Offensive MVP (1984), led West division in passing yards (1984) and led CFL in passing yards (1987), led CFL in passing TDs 2 times (1984, 87), CFL Hall of Fame

 

Matt Dunigan – 43 gp in 3 seasons (1992-94)

Passing: 791/1442, 54.9%, 11504 yds, 84 TD, 49 INT, 79 long, 86.3 rating

[334 (‘93)/600 (’93), 58.5% (’94), 4682 yds (’93), 36 TD (’93), 15 INT (’92), 79 long (’94), 97.65 (’94)]

Rushing: 168-981-5.8-37-18 [84 (’93) – 517 (’93) – 6.2 (’93) – 37 (’93) – 11 (’93)]

 2 time divisional all-star (1993, 94), team/East MOP (1993), 2 Grey Cup appearances (1992, 93), led East division in passing TDs 2 times (1993, 94),  CFL Hall of Fame

 

Khari Jones – 83 gp in 5 seasons (2000-04)

Passing: 1416/2478, 57.1%, 20175 yds, 139 TD, 98 INT, 83 long, 85.85 rating

[382 (‘02)/620 (’02), 61.6% (’02), 5334 yds (’02), 46 TD (’02), 8 INT (’04), 83 long (’02), 94.52 (’02)]

Rushing: 260-1501-5.8-43-8 [64 (’00) – 424 (’00) – 6.6 (’00) – 43 (’01) – 3 (’03)]

2 time divisional all-star (2001, 02), CFL all star (2001), team/East/CFL MOP (2001), Grey Cup appearance (2001), led CFL in passing yards 2 times (2001, 02), led CFL in passing TDs 2 times (2001, 02) and East division a 3^rd time (2000)

 

Kevin Glenn - 92 gp in 6 seasons (2004-08, 16)

Passing: 1330/2187, 60.8%, 18135 yds, 103 TD, 71 INT, 101 long, 89.48 rating

[388 (‘07)/621 (’07), 64.6% (’08), 5117 yds (’07), 27 TD (’05), 14 INT (’04), 101 long (’05), 93.18 (’07)]

Rushing: 170-656-3.9-18-5 [41 (’07) – 194 (’06) – 4.8 (’06) – 18 (’05) – 2 (‘04, ’06)

divisional all-star (2007), team/East MOP (2007), Grey Cup appearance (2007), led CFL in passing yards (2007), led East division in passing TDs (2007)

 

[Noeller]

I don't think  you can go wrong with Jack Jacobs or Kenny Ploen. Both good choices. I'd also like to see someone make the passionate case for Khari Jones...it's not the right choice, but I kind of want someone to make the case, just based on the stats over a few years...

[Fatty Liver]

It really is a sad realization of failure when one looks at this list from the perspective of the number of Grey Cup victories earned with the Bombers.

[TrueBlue4ever]

One man's take:

A bit trickier than I thought it might be. This category will boil down to how one would define "greatness". If you are a stats head, Brock has the career numbers, Jones arguably had the greatest single season (even though he didn't win MOP that year), and the more recent QBs have the edge in that new fangled efficiency rating, for what it's worth (BTW Matt Nichols leads in that category, and in career and single season completion percentage). And Kevin Glenn had surprisingly comparable career numbers to Jones in his time here. But if greatness is defined by team success, then Ploen is a slam dunk. However, breaking down his numbers makes one wonder how much of his success was driven by him, versus having a stacked team around him, compared to say a Jacobs, Dunigan or Jonas who carried a team. Or do you weigh both aspects equally, in which case a guy like Clements checks off both boxes of strong stats and team success? And do you weigh these guys against each other, or compared to their contemporaries in the years they played? Let the debate begin.

My case for each (loathe to put them in "rankings" for fear of slighting any of them, but consider this a sort of pecking order from bottom to top):

Kevin Glenn: Like with every team in his career, he just went about his business and put up some very nice numbers, despite little praise for it. Probably should have beat out Kerry Joseph for league MOP in  2007 based on the stats that year (although Henry Burris may have been the proper choice overall), and how does his overall legacy look if he doesn't break his arm in the East Final chasing Charlie's goalline gaffe? How different is the team's legacy, for that matter, with a Grey Cup drought that likely would have ended 12 years ago instead of carrying into this year once more? But it's the little things about him that irk fans that knock him down a peg. How he'd point to the name on the back of his jersey after a score (like it was more important than the logo on the shoulder), he had a chip on his shoulder for sure - maybe justifiably so given the lack of respect he gets an all the moving around for a pretty impressive career - he has not hung around this long because he's no good - but his time in Winnipeg was marred by some knee problems, and he could always do just enough to get a team close and then break their hearts with a last drive mistake when it mattered most (fortunately his most egregious playoff failures happened in other uniforms). Clutch he was not. But respect is due for what he did accomplish here. I say he fully deserves to be on the nominees list, but nothing more than that.  

Matt Dunigan: So this is reason #1 why I fear ranking these guys. It is so subjective in how to look at things. But he was here the shortest time, and while he is now beloved, most have probably conveniently forgotten that when he was here he was labelled "the glass quarterback". Played QB with a linebacker mentality, the best running QB of the lot by a country mile (and given the state of our running game, he was like a 1A back beside Michael Richardson) and the best improvisational scrambler. His ability to extend plays and ad lib made Mike Kelly's offence look better than it maybe was, and unlike a Stegall who made his QBs look better in some cases, Dunigan elevated the play of his receiving corps. And of course, the 713 game is one of the greatest singular moments in 89 years of Bomber history (ranks #2 in games I have ever seen live). But the injuries at crucial times (playing hurt in the '92 Cup, out with an Achilles tear in '93 with our best shot at the Cup) and playing second fiddle to Doug Flutie in that era, coupled with his short tenure, keep him down the list. Oh, but what could have been.........

Don Jonas: Resurrected the team from the scrap heap in the 1970's and was the first real star following the dynasty years. Shocking stat: he is still the last Bomber quarterback to start a Western Final playoff game in Winnipeg, 47 years ago. Had Mack Herron as his engine, but really the team rallied around him, and bonus points for early mentorship of Brock, and for arguably the expansion of Winnipeg Stadium because of his play. He was always willing to cede the starter's role and finish in Winnipeg as a senior back-up and guiding hand to Dieter, but management had other plans, one of the biggest injustices in Winnipeg's sporting history when you discuss trades. His shorter time here and no trips to the big dance keep him lower down on the list, but his MOP award squeaks him past Dunigan in my unscientific ranking.

Khari Jones: Boy, again I hate ranking these guys, he should be higher. A supernova when he took over from Kerwin Bell, he may be regarded as the biggest steal in Bomber trading history when he was a throw-in on a deal with BC. Legit question: did he make Milt or did Milt make him? Legit question #2, has any player on any team had a better season and not been his team's MOP than Khari in 2002 (maybe Sapunjis or Pitts in Flutie's heyday)? Again. father time and concussions brought an inglorious end to a great career here, had the "quiet room" been around when he played, all one would need to do was see the wide-eyed glaze and he would be sitting rather than throwing that ill-advised wide-side "pick-6 on a silver platter" toss that became all too frequent in his final year here. And he will always be saddled with the "Unfinished Business" group of '01-'03 that keeps him from moving higher on the list. But what a joy to see him just stare at Milt at the line, and they both silently knew the pass was going over the top to the vacated safety spot for a TD with the blitz in his face, and there was nothing anyone could do about it.

Jack Jacobs: A QB for a different era, "Indian Jack" transformed the passing game in the CFL. The first QB ever to go over 3,000 yards in a season when formations were basically set up to run the ball on most of the plays. Some can say Milt made IG Field happen, and Jonas was the reason behind the upper deck addition, but Winnipeg Stadium will always be "the house that Jack built" without question, and I can't think of a more lasting legacy for a player than that. I did not include rushing stats for him because they were actually hundreds of yards in the negative (I can only assume sacks were considered "negative gain rushes" at that time).

Tom Clements: I have a massive bias for him as my favorite QB, but I would see it as a stretch to call him the "greatest ever" to line up under centre for the Bombers. BUT....if you wanted someone who checks ALL the boxes, he is the only guy who does. MOP award? Check (only Jonas, Brock, and Jones join him as QBs on that list). CFL all-star QB? Check (Jacobs, Ploen, Dunigan, and Glenn cannot say that). Big stats? Check. (His 4686 yard season is 4th best in club history, only Dunigan and Jones have more TD passes in a single season, and at the time his 67% completion rate was a league record) Team Grey Cup success? Check. (Only Ploen stands with him here). "The Professor" or "Clark Kent" was the most cerebral of the Bomber QBs on this list, and as was said before dragged us to heights we had not seen in 22 years, something so many others on this list could not do. His 1987 team was described by Bob Irving as the best Bomber team ever, maybe the best CFL team ever, to not win the Grey Cup. To be traded for one of the iconic Bomber players of all-time and come out best says something, so yeah, maybe he does rank on top. 

Dieter Brock: Has all the metrics to be #1. The only Bomber ever to win 2 MOP awards (back-to-back). Has all the career records, and a healthy number of the single season marks at one time (some of which are still his). And is it his fault that he never got to the big dance only because was the league's best QB playing on a team that had to go up against the all-time greatest dynasty the CFL has ever seen? "The Birmingham Rifle" (yes, bonus points for a cool nickname, which elevates one's status) was an elite talent. "Could throw a football through a car wash without it getting wet". "Could throw a ball while on his knees at centre field and split the uprights". Just could not win the big one, sigh.....

Ken Ploen: So here is my dilemma. If you crunch the numbers. He is not a "wow" player (although that 118.2 effeiciency rating in 1962 is eye-popping, I had to check that number twice). The offence revolved as much around Leo Lewis as anything (as evidenced by his 5 team MOP noms compared to Ploen's 2 over the same time frame). Jim Van Pelt had better passing numbers with the club than Ploen did when they played together. He never ever led the league in passing yards or TDs in any single season. And compared to his contemporaries of that era (Joe Kapp, Sam Etcheverry, Russ Jackson, Robin Tote, and Eagle Day) it's hard to say he ever ranked ahead of them all at any time. But, those 4 rings. And with each passing year of futility with this franchise (a past 22 year drought and now a 29 year famine!), those championships loom larger for his legend. If I am ranking the "best" QBs on how they carried their team alone, or how they stood out as the top player in the league, or how they put up amazing numbers, he falls down this list a lot. But when I think of the "Mount Rushmore" of Bomber players and who deserves to be on that monument (and yes, that will be my final installment next week), how does Ken Ploen not end up on that group of 4 ultimate legends?

So I leave it to you to decide without publicly naming my guy. I know who I want up there, who "should" be there, and who "deserves" to be there, and they may all be different people, and I know another could make a better case for someone who isn't one of those three to be the top dog. So don't be shy with those testimonials.

Edited May 22, 2019 by TrueBlue4ever

[Doublezero]

Witnessed all of them play except for Jack Jacobs and I voted for Dieter Brock - The Birmingham Rifle.  He was with us for a decade - we had some great teams in that era.  Dunigan was my second choice. What a warrior. Tom Clements was a joy to watch too, it was a fab time to be a fan of the Blue & Gold.

Edited May 22, 2019 by Doublezero

[wbbfan]

If I need one guy to win one game, I take Matt dunigan. He could will you to win dominate like few else the league has seen. His health isn't reliable over the long term though. 

Have a contender with a window of 2-3 years and want to be a champion once or more in that span? Give me Tom clements. Took the place of a hall of fame elite qb and took the same team to the next level. He's a team elevator not just an individual dominator. 

Need to start a franchise or rebuild? A guy to be there in thin times and develop a team around to contend and win? Brock and jack brings In the fans but Kenny ploen brings every thing. Including the rings. Doing what ever it takes and exceling at it. He's my vote for goat. 

[SpeedFlex27]

From the sparseness of the tight end position to the glorious qb position. I voted for Ken Ploen as the man richly deserves to be recognized as GOAT but look at the other guys on that list. Some great ones are there for sure. 

[MC]

Ken Ploen was the greatest all time player the Bombers have ever had.  Bar none.  But he wasn't even the best QB on the team for some of the years he played.  The team was best when Ploen played at halfback and Van Pelt was the QB.  

The best QB - and I tossed all of the nominees with less than 4 years with the team - was Brock.  The only reason he didn't win any Grey Cups was the Edmonton juggernaut that was historically anomalous.

[TrueBlue4ever]

1 hour ago, wbbfan said:

If I need one guy to win one game, I take Matt dunigan. He could will you to win dominate like few else the league has seen. His health isn't reliable over the long term though. 

Have a contender with a window of 2-3 years and want to be a champion once or more in that span? Give me Tom clements. Took the place of a hall of fame elite qb and took the same team to the next level. He's a team elevator not just an individual dominator. 

Need to start a franchise or rebuild? A guy to be there in thin times and develop a team around to contend and win? Brock and jack brings In the fans but Kenny ploen brings every thing. Including the rings. Doing what ever it takes and exceling at it. He's my vote for goat. 

Great post! You could add Jones as another QB you would want to start or rebuild a franchise, as that is exactly what he did here in 2000. I remember one game where he was playing with a bad throwing shoulder and generally "beat up", and the o-line guys (I think it was Matt Sheridan who told this story)  just marvelled at him limping into the huddle holding his arm up with his other hand since he couldn't lift it on its own, wincing in pain, looking like he'd been in a car wreck, would call the play, get to the line, and from the cadence to the end of the play, all that pain disappeared and he would be humming the ball all over the place like his arm was totally fine, then he would again limp back to the huddle, call the next play, and again bury the pain, play after play. They say he carried the entire team that day and everyone brought their game to a higher level seeing how much he was willing to sacrifice and suck up to get the job done.

[17to85]

7 hours ago, Noeller said:

I'd also like to see someone make the passionate case for Khari Jones...it's not the right choice, but I kind of want someone to make the case, just based on the stats over a few years...

Don't look at me. I desperately want to make that argument but it can't be done, and as you know, I can't argue a losing point. 

[Brandon]

Matt excelled on multiple teams playing with different players.... Khari was great for a short period of time and had the help of the greatest receiver ever in the CFL...  

[Tracker]

2 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Don't look at me. I desperately want to make that argument but it can't be done, and as you know, I can't argue a losing point. 

Yes you can. Apparently I do it with my wife all the time.

[Noeller]

1 hour ago, Tracker said:

Yes you can. Apparently I do it with my wife all the time.

He has a rule about never arguing in favour of anything that he knows, for a fact, is wrong... 

[wbbfan]

15 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Great post! You could add Jones as another QB you would want to start or rebuild a franchise, as that is exactly what he did here in 2000. I remember one game where he was playing with a bad throwing shoulder and generally "beat up", and the o-line guys (I think it was Matt Sheridan who told this story)  just marvelled at him limping into the huddle holding his arm up with his other hand since he couldn't lift it on its own, wincing in pain, looking like he'd been in a car wreck, would call the play, get to the line, and from the cadence to the end of the play, all that pain disappeared and he would be humming the ball all over the place like his arm was totally fine, then he would again limp back to the huddle, call the next play, and again bury the pain, play after play. They say he carried the entire team that day and everyone brought their game to a higher level seeing how much he was willing to sacrifice and suck up to get the job done.

Thanks. Yeah I mean if you could get jones at 25 and start a franchise with him everything is possible. He got a real late start to starting (29 iirc) and stood behind some awful OLs. Loved kharis heart, and his active role in the city. For a while he was prince of the peg, its a shame he never got a ring here, and that it didnt last longer. Some careers just burn with an intense light rather then length. 

If it wasnt for khari jones and jack jacobs we wouldnt have a blue bombers training camp going on right now. They may not be the GOAT, but they are MVPs for the franchise. 

[SpeedFlex27]

You need to put Don Jonas on  that MVP list as well. Before he came to the Bombers from the Argos they were in the wilderness having missed the playoffs 4 seasons in a row. They were averaging about 14,000 fans a game in 1970.  They won 3 games in 1969 & just 2 games in 1970. A year later under Jonas they won 7 games , tied 1 & finished in third place in the West. In 1972, they improved to first place in the West with 10 wins. Attendance doubled to 25,000 by 1972 with the addition of 5,000 new seats on the West Side. When Jonas got here in 1971, the team was broke.  He made it into a money maker for the first time in years.

Edited May 24, 2019 by SpeedFlex27

[wbbfan]

9 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

You need to put Don Jonas on  that MVP list as well. Before he came to the Bombers from the Argos they were in the wilderness having missed the playoffs 4 seasons in a row. They were averaging about 14,000 fans a game in 1970.  They won 3 games in 1969 & just 2 games in 1970. A year later under Jonas they won 7 games , tied 1 & finished in third place in the West. In 1972, they improved to first place in the West with 10 wins. Attendance doubled to 25,000 by 1972 with the addition of 5,000 new seats on the West Side. When Jonas got here in 1971, the team was broke.  He made it into a money maker for the first time in years.

great point. 

[Snowboy]

Jim Van Pelt was the winning QB for the Bombers in 1958 and 1959. Actually beat out Kenny Ploen for the QB position but unfortunately had a short career. I don't know why, but he beat out who most on this board consider the greatest.

Edited May 26, 2019 by Snowboy
ck dates

[SpeedFlex27]

23 minutes ago, Snowboy said:

Jim Van Pelt was the winning QB for the Bombers in 1958 and 1959. Actually beat out Kenny Ploen for the QB position but unfortunately had a short career. I don't know why, but he beat out who most on this board consider the greatest.

Jim Van Pelt was drafted into the US military in 1960. Spent a 3 year hitch in the Air Force. When he got out the Bombers tried to re-sign him. He & his wife  were the Bombers  special guests at the 1962 Grey Cup in Toronto. Ultimately Van Pelt decided to turn down the Bomber contract offer & went into private business in Chicago.  In 1959, Van Pelt separated his shoulder in the Western Final series & it was Ken Ploen who quarterbacked the Bombers to their Grey Cup win in 1959.  Looking at the records though, he certainly was a great qb when he played.  I agree that he should have been on the list & was a major oversight by all of us.

[Snowboy]

2 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Jim Van Pelt was drafted into the US military in 1960. Spent a 3 year hitch in the Air Force. When he got out the Bombers tried to re-sign him. He & his wife  were the Bombers  special guests at the 1962 Grey Cup in Toronto. Ultimately Van Pelt decided to turn down the Bomber contract offer & went into private business in Chicago.  In 1959, Van Pelt separated his shoulder in the Western Final series & it was Ken Ploen who quarterbacked the Bombers to their Grey Cup win in 1959.  Looking at the records though, he certainly was a great qb when he played.  I agree that he should have been on the list & was a major oversight by all of us.

Thank you.........at the time I thought he would have a great future, you had to be something special to dislodge Kenny Ploen.

[SpeedFlex27]

4 hours ago, Snowboy said:

Thank you.........at the time I thought he would have a great future, you had to be something special to dislodge Kenny Ploen.

One thing I will say that both guys wouldn't have been satisfied to play together at qb for a decade. One would have eventually left. It worked out well for Ploen & the Bombers. 

Edited May 27, 2019 by SpeedFlex27