US Politics

[The Unknown Poster]

3 minutes ago, pigseye said:

Most people know the difference between Trump and the Republican Party, at least those who agree that the Republicans run a better economy than the Democrats.

The war on white men is just another political weapon the left has sunk to using, most sane people just see it for what it is. 

Yes, I agree most people see the Republican's as better managers of the economy.  Its one of the reasons I have voted conservative for many many years.

As for war on men...thats a right wing driven thing unless you're talking about something else.  I assume you dont mean there is an ACTUAL war on men...lol   The right have effectively created a fake war on men to chill credible allegations of sexual assault.  This is because Trump has done it many times and has no legitimacy in that area.  Its to his benefit to create a narrative that all women are lying and the poor white men accused are all innocent.

[pigseye]

No Campus for White Men: The Transformation of Higher Education into Hateful Indoctrination

You should read it if you haven't already, it's no fake war. 

[kelownabomberfan]

WASHINGTON - Brett Kavanaugh took the bench with his new Supreme Court colleagues for the first time Tuesday in a jovial atmosphere that was strikingly at odds with the tension and rancour surrounding his high court confirmation.

The new justice dived into his new job, asking a handful of questions in the first arguments of the day following a traditional welcome from Chief Justice John Roberts, who wishing Kavanaugh "a long and happy career in our common calling."

Kavanaugh took his seat at the end of bench to Roberts' far left just after 10 a.m., a visible manifestation of a moment that Republicans have dreamed of for decades, with five solidly conservative justices on the court, and Democrats have dreaded.
His path to confirmation was turbulent — opposition to him intensified after Christine Blasey Ford accused him of sexually assaulting her, allegations Kavanaugh denied.

In court, Kavanaugh asked questions of both sides in arguments over increased prison sentences for repeat offenders. He jumped in with his first question after most of the other justices had spoken.

Questions from Kavanaugh and Justice Neil Gorsuch, President Donald Trump's two high court picks, suggested they could vote against the Trump administration and side with a criminal defendant from Florida who is fighting an increase in his sentence from just over six years to possibly more than 15 years.

There were no disruptions in the courtroom and the justices laughed at each other's jokes. Justice Sonia Sotomayor even appeared to playfully pinch Gorsuch's arm as she asked a question about the kind of physical force necessary to have a crime be treated as violent under a federal enhanced sentencing law.

The newest justice's wife and two daughters were in seats reserved for justices' guests, along with retired Justice Anthony Kennedy. Kavanaugh replaced Kennedy on the bench.

The 53-year-old Kavanaugh occasionally chatted privately with his seatmate, Justice Elena Kagan. From time to time, he put on reading glasses to refer to papers in front of him.

There was a long line of people hoping to see Kavanaugh's first appearance. Police put up barricades in front of the court, but there were few protesters in the early morning.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/politics/court-mood-is-jovial-as-kavanaugh-takes-his-place-on-bench/ar-BBO8dZ2?ocid=spartanntp

[kelownabomberfan]

1 hour ago, The Unknown Poster said:

 Now, will those people actually vote, who knows.  

 

As history has shown, most of them won't.  Old people vote, young people not so much.

[kelownabomberfan]

1 hour ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

That is the problem- Republicans do not want to work together. It's the Newt Gingrich playbook they have been using since 1994. So **** em.  

I think that is a bit myopic.  The Republicans delayed Garland's hearings, which was dirty pool, and the Democrats would have done the same with Kavanaugh if they could have.  Both parties are guilty of the same games.  I realize I will be blasted for saying this, but I really don't care.  The Democrats have dirty hands too.  It will take someone in the middle to get some kind of reconciliation done.  Just say F--- em all the time just means that you are going to lose.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

2 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

I think that is a bit myopic. 

Not at all- it has been the playbook since 1994. republicans refuse to work with democrats. That's history- not some ideal you are thinking. 

3 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

The Republicans delayed Garland's hearings, which was dirty pool, and the Democrats would have done the same with Kavanaugh if they could have.  

You are just speculating. One thing happened (Garland snub), one thing didn't and is just made up fantasy (the "would have done the same"). I will concede to you that AFTER the Garland Snub, after the republicans  getting rid of the 60% votes needed for SCOTUS appointment to aapoint Gorsuch- then yeah the dems would have done that to kavs. 

 

[kelownabomberfan]

25 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

You are just speculating. One thing happened (Garland snub), one thing didn't and is just made up fantasy (the "would have done the same")

[The Unknown Poster]

46 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

I think that is a bit myopic.  The Republicans delayed Garland's hearings, which was dirty pool, and the Democrats would have done the same with Kavanaugh if they could have.  Both parties are guilty of the same games.  I realize I will be blasted for saying this, but I really don't care.  The Democrats have dirty hands too.  It will take someone in the middle to get some kind of reconciliation done.  Just say F--- em all the time just means that you are going to lose.

Some big differences between Garland and Kav.  If Garland had several credible sexual assault allegations, the GOP would have been screaming from the rooftops for a full investigation.  If Garland had conducted himself in the manner Kav did, the GOP would have been screaming that he was unqualified.  But Garland didnt conduct himself that way or have sexual assault allegations.  Kav did.  

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

15 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

[The Unknown Poster]

1 hour ago, pigseye said:

No Campus for White Men: The Transformation of Higher Education into Hateful Indoctrination

You should read it if you haven't already, it's no fake war. 

I read one case today online where a male & female student hooked up, didnt have sex but made out.  She was more the initiator than he was.  She agreed to a friends with benefits relationship, changed her mind and filed a sexual harassment complaint with her school (based solely on the one time they made out.  The male student hired a lawyer, spent $12,000 only for the "victim's" statement to actually be a better defense of the perp than his own statement.

I've seen it re-tweeted a lot as evidence of the "poor men" scenario.  To me, its an obvious break down in common sense at the school.  But its hardly the norm.  The anti-metoo people like to hold up the much more rare examples of false allegations as proof we cant believe any women.  But its a smoke-screen for the large number of old assaults now being brought to light.  The Kav incidents a perfect example.

I worked for years in an industry with many drunk people, many random hook ups, drug use etc.  Trust me, if I heard 1000 stories of men behaving badly, the vast, vast majority were true.  And thats not to say there werent women behaving badly.  I've been grabbed and touched many times without consent.  The difference?  At no point was I in fear when a 5'4" girl grabbed my at the bar...or tried to have sex when I have her a ride home.  

I have no problem with being open-minded.  We should be.  Facts should be gathered (which is why the GOP did a huge disservice to men everywhere by running a sham investigation and then declaring Kav innocent).  But let's not pretend that white men have it rough in our society.  Its nonsense.

[The Unknown Poster]

18 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

When are all the other times it happened?  Im not saying you're wrong.  But please prove it.  

Gorsuch 54-45 (3 Dems voted in favour)

Kagan 63-37 (5 Republicans voted to confirm).  This was Obama's pick and she had support from the GOP, including Lindsey Graham

Sotomeyer 68-31 (another Obama pick who was received by several GOP and was supported by former Pres. H.W.)

Alito 58-42 (W. pick.  4 Dems supported the pick).

Breyer 87-9 (nominated by Clinton)

Ginsburg 96-3 (Clinton pick)

Thomas 52-48 (Bush pick - 11 Dems supported

Roberts 78-22 (Bush pick - 22 Dems supported).

So lets not pretend this is normal.   The only time before Kav that it was really close was Thomas.  Gee, what did they have in common.  Historically, the Senate supports the nominee.  Why?  Because the President nominates someone that can be confirmed with more than a simple majority.  

When the GOP screams about this being the new norm, it was they who started over-politicizing this when they refused to confirm Garland.  Just like Thomas, there are legitimate issues with Kav.  Had Trump nominated someone palpable to the Senate, he'd have been confirmed in a more bi-partisan way.  That's the point.

 

[Mark F]

edit

 

Edited October 9, 2018 by Mark F

[17to85]

2 hours ago, pigseye said:

Most people know the difference between Trump and the Republican Party, at least those who agree that the Republicans run a better economy than the Democrats.

The war on white men is just another political weapon the left has sunk to using, most sane people just see it for what it is. 

So there is no difference between Trump and the Republican party, if there was they'd put the brakes on his lunacy, instead they are doubling down getting in line behind him cause the whackos in the base love the guy cause he enables their bigotry and makes it seem like a legitimate stance to have. 

Second of all there are plenty of studies that show in fact that Republicans are worse for the economy than Democrats. The problem is that economies are slow moving things and the impact of a government really isn't fully seen until they're out of office. The economy is good in the states now, thanks to the previous president. Trumps moronic course of action won't really hit home unitl he's out of office. Just in time for the Republicans to get up in arms about the democrats having a shitty economy! 

It works cause people are stupid. 

[pigseye]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

So there is no difference between Trump and the Republican party, if there was they'd put the brakes on his lunacy, instead they are doubling down getting in line behind him cause the whackos in the base love the guy cause he enables their bigotry and makes it seem like a legitimate stance to have. 

Second of all there are plenty of studies that show in fact that Republicans are worse for the economy than Democrats. The problem is that economies are slow moving things and the impact of a government really isn't fully seen until they're out of office. The economy is good in the states now, thanks to the previous president. Trumps moronic course of action won't really hit home unitl he's out of office. Just in time for the Republicans to get up in arms about the democrats having a shitty economy! 

It works cause people are stupid. 

That's about the only thing you got right.

The tax cuts and deregulation are what is driving it, even the Dems agree on that one. 

[kelownabomberfan]

2 hours ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

LOL - ok - anyway, it's too bad you keep using words like "hate" and promoting violence towards others.  There are some deep-seated problems here that need to be worked out.  This isn't even our country for goodness' sakes.  Would you guys be getting this worked up about a judge appointment in Uruguay?  To the point of actually saying you "hate" someone who disagrees with you?

[pigseye]

18 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

LOL - ok - anyway, it's too bad you keep using words like "hate" and promoting violence towards others.  There are some deep-seated problems here that need to be worked out.  This isn't even our country for goodness' sakes.  Would you guys be getting this worked up about a judge appointment in Uruguay?  To the point of actually saying you "hate" someone who disagrees with you?

That's why I posted the book title for them, hope they read it. 

[17to85]

1 hour ago, pigseye said:

That's about the only thing you got right.

The tax cuts and deregulation are what is driving it, even the Dems agree on that one. 

The economy was already strong, tax cuts gave the stock market a bump, but it will be short lived and will do more harm than good in the long run. 

[17to85]

4 hours ago, kelownabomberfan said:

I think that is a bit myopic.  The Republicans delayed Garland's hearings, which was dirty pool, and the Democrats would have done the same with Kavanaugh if they could have.  Both parties are guilty of the same games.  I realize I will be blasted for saying this, but I really don't care.  The Democrats have dirty hands too.  It will take someone in the middle to get some kind of reconciliation done.  Just say F--- em all the time just means that you are going to lose.

So you equate delaying a hearing because it was a judge nominated by Obama for purely political reasons with the Democrats wanting to delay confirming a guy with multiple sexual assault allegations against him AND a highly partisan individual. And it's the left that is the ones being divisive.... right.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

56 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

LOL - ok - anyway, it's too bad you keep using words like "hate" and promoting violence towards others.  There are some deep-seated problems here that need to be worked out.  This isn't even our country for goodness' sakes.  Would you guys be getting this worked up about a judge appointment in Uruguay?  To the point of actually saying you "hate" someone who disagrees with you?

 

37 minutes ago, pigseye said:

That's why I posted the book title for them, hope they read it. 

 

[pigseye]

13 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

The economy was already strong, tax cuts gave the stock market a bump, but it will be short lived and will do more harm than good in the long run. 

No it was recovering from a recession, there was no where to go but up, the Dems did nothing but tax and regulate. 

[17to85]

9 minutes ago, pigseye said:

No it was recovering from a recession, there was no where to go but up, the Dems did nothing but tax and regulate. 

And Trump has done nothing but start trade wars and give the rich a tax cut. How do you think that will play out in the long run? Honestly I am curious. 

[kelownabomberfan]

44 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

So you equate delaying a hearing because it was a judge nominated by Obama for purely political reasons with the Democrats wanting to delay confirming a guy with multiple sexual assault allegations against him AND a highly partisan individual. And it's the left that is the ones being divisive.... right.

no I'm saying that both parties play games, and both have dirty hands.  You can say that the Democrats are the shining white knights of American politics, but that just makes you look horribly naïve.

[kelownabomberfan]

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/politics/how-nikki-haley-played-the-white-house-game-—-and-won/ar-BBOalna?ocid=spartanntp

Nikki Haley resigns, big loss for the UN and the world.  I really liked how she stood up to the anti-Israeli bullies at the UN.  I hope they can find someone just as strong to fill her giant shoes.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

Just now, kelownabomberfan said:

no I'm saying that both parties play games, and both have dirty hands.  You can say that the Democrats are the shining white knights of American politics, but that just makes you look horribly naïve.

No one is saying the dems are whiteknights- your constant defense of this trump administration by using "whataboutism" and pure speculative whataboutism makes you look horribly desperate and quite frankly uninformed. 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

1 minute ago, kelownabomberfan said:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/politics/how-nikki-haley-played-the-white-house-game-—-and-won/ar-BBOalna?ocid=spartanntp

Nikki Haley resigns, big loss for the UN and the world.  I really liked how she stood up to the anti-Israeli bullies at the UN.  I hope they can find someone just as strong to fill her giant shoes.

anti-Israeli bullies? You are aware what goes on in the middle east right? Israel is the bully of the middle east. I mean, Gaza... world's largest illegal open air prison.