BigBlue
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Posts posted by BigBlue
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Brady is not worth any way thing near Nic Demski ($175k+)... I expect BO will be offered around 140 with incentives = $150k take it or leave it
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protecting our QBs is an awful thing ... worst ever thought?
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Vital to our league in the long term and short term progress.
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Why Jeopardize Our Most Important Assets ?
When a team loses its starting quarterback, home team walk-up traffic and television ratings are crushed; the weaknesses of the league are exposed. TSN loses a bit of money and a lot of interest; fans call us a bush league and public interest wanes. The most money spent by any team ALWAYS is on its most valuable asset, so what is the league’s brain trust thinking? Are they trying to please the players Association? Are they hoping to hit highlight reels of an athlete being destroyed? Are we trying to claim that our 100+ year history and heritage mandates we need to show grit?
Our referees need to be instructed to protect our quarterbacks at all costs! EXPLICITY and in detail. Just a feather of too much force brings out the flag. Forget about referee’s discretion. Make it costly for them to miss a roughing call. Put the whole league on a mission to keep our starting quarterbacks upright. Go overboard making “roughing the passer” punitive.
“When in doubt about a roughness call or potentially dangerous tactic against the quarterback, the Referee should always call roughing the passer.” (NFL Policy)
Our game will change, if we want it to. It’s a simple matter of will. There is no doubt what the but the NFL has done. We need to more than a match their actions. We have more at stake. THE CFL HAS TO ABSOLUTELY WITHOUT EXCEPTION ENFORCE THE QB PROTECTION RULES. REFEREES NEED TO BE FORCED TO COMPLY.
What is the “hug rule”?
“A rushing defender is prohibited from committing such intimidating and punishing acts as “stuffing” a passer into the ground or unnecessarily wrestling or driving him down after the passer has thrown the ball, even if the rusher makes his initial contact with the passer within the one-step limitation… When tackling a passer who is in a defenseless posture (e.g., during or just after throwing a pass), a defensive player must not unnecessarily or violently throw him down or land on top of him with all or most of the defender’s weight. Instead, the defensive player must strive to wrap up the passer with the defensive player’s arms and not land on the passer with all or most of his body weight.”
One more thing: “A player who initiates contact against a passer is responsible for avoiding an illegal act… pass rushers are responsible for being aware of the position of the ball in passing situations”. In other words, the onus must be on the defensive player to have the awareness required to avoid fouling the quarterback.
So if the defensive pass rusher pulls up and “hugs the quarterback” instead of throwing him into the ground, there is no penalty; but following through yields a 25 yard penalty, a game misconduct and an automatic one-game suspension. Multiple infractions will carry even more harsh retribution.
Real change will happen rapidly.
For everyone’s information, here is a fairly comprehensive set of the NFL’s roughing the passer rules:
https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/roughing-the-passer/
ROUGHING THE PASSER
Because the act of passing often puts the quarterback (or any other player attempting a pass) in a position where he is particularly vulnerable to injury, special rules against roughing the passer apply. The Referee has principal responsibility for enforcing these rules. Any physical acts against a player who is in a passing posture (i.e. before, during, or after a pass) which, in the Referee’s judgment, are unwarranted by the circumstances of the play will be called as fouls. The Referee will be guided by the following principles:
Roughing will be called if, in the Referee’s judgment, a pass rusher clearly should have known that the ball had already left the passer’s hand before contact was made; pass rushers are responsible for being aware of the position of the ball in passing situations; the Referee will use the release of the ball from the passer’s hand as his guideline that the passer is now fully protected; once a pass has been released by a passer, a rushing defender may make direct contact with the passer only up through the rusher’s first step after such release (prior to second step hitting the ground); thereafter the rusher must be making an attempt to avoid contact and must not continue to “drive through” or otherwise forcibly contact the passer; incidental or inadvertent contact by a player who is easing up or being blocked into the passer will not be considered significant.
A rushing defender is prohibited from committing such intimidating and punishing acts as “stuffing” a passer into the ground or unnecessarily wrestling or driving him down after the passer has thrown the ball, even if the rusher makes his initial contact with the passer within the one-step limitation provided for in (a) above. When tackling a passer who is in a defenseless posture (e.g., during or just after throwing a pass), a defensive player must not unnecessarily or violently throw him down or land on top of him with all or most of the defender’s weight. Instead, the defensive player must strive to wrap up the passer with the defensive player’s arms and not land on the passer with all or most of his body weight.
In covering the passer position, Referees will be particularly alert to fouls in which defenders impermissibly use the helmet and/or facemask to hit the passer, or use hands, arms, or other parts of the body to hit the passer forcibly in the head or neck area (see also the other unnecessary roughness rules covering these subjects). A defensive player must not use his helmet against a passer who is in a defenseless posture—for example, (1) forcibly hitting the passer’s head or neck area with the helmet or facemask, even if the initial contact of the defender’s helmet or facemask is lower than the passer’s neck, and regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the passer by encircling or grasping him; or (2) lowering the head and making forcible contact with any part of the helmet against any part of the passer’s body. This rule does not prohibit incidental contact by the mask or non-crown parts of the helmet in the course of a conventional tackle on a passer.
A rushing defender is prohibited from forcibly hitting in the knee area or below a passer who has one or both feet on the ground, even if the initial contact is above the knee. It is not a foul if the defender is blocked (or fouled) into the passer and has no opportunity to avoid him.
Notes
A defender cannot initiate a roll or lunge and forcibly hit the passer in the knee area or below, even if he is being contacted by another player.
It is not a foul if the defender swipes or grabs a passer in the knee area or below in an attempt to tackle him, provided he does not make forcible contact with the helmet, shoulder, chest, or forearm.
A passer who is standing still or fading backward after the ball has left his hand is obviously out of the play and must not be unnecessarily contacted by an opponent through the end of the down or until the passer becomes a blocker, or a runner, or, in the event of a change of possession during the down, until he assumes a distinctly defensive position. However, at any time after the change of possession, it is a foul if:
an opponent forcibly hits the quarterback’s head or neck area with his helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder
if an opponent lowers his head and makes forcible contact with any part of his helmet against any part of the passer’s body. This provision does not prohibit incidental contact by the mask or the helmet in the course of a conventional block.
When the passer goes outside the pocket area and either continues moving with the ball (without attempting to advance the ball as a runner) or throws while on the run, he loses the protection of the one-step rule provided for in (a) above, and the protection against a low hit provided for in (e) above, but he remains covered by all the other special protections afforded to a passer in the pocket (b, c, d, and f), as well as the regular unnecessary roughness rules applicable to all player positions. If the passer stops behind the line and clearly establishes a passing posture, he will then be covered by all of the special protections for passers.
The Referee must blow the play dead as soon as the passer is clearly in the grasp and control of any tackler behind the line, and the passer’s safety is in jeopardy.
Note:
A player who initiates contact against a passer is responsible for avoiding an illegal act. This includes illegal contact that may occur during the process of attempting to dislodge the ball. A standard of strict liability applies for any contact against a passer, irrespective of any acts by the passer, such as ducking his head or curling up his body in anticipation of contact.
Penalty: For Roughing the Passer: Loss of 15 yards and an automatic first down; disqualification if flagrant.
Notes
When in doubt about a roughness call or potentially dangerous tactic against the quarterback, the Referee should always call roughing the passer.
See 8-6-1-c–d for personal fouls prior to completion or interception.
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On 2023-12-24 at 4:53 PM, bluedawg said:
There is 0 chance Dru is back in Winnipeg if they plan to pay either of Schoen or Brady. With raises kicking in this year for Lawler and Demski plus re-signing young pieces to bigger deals, there's 0% chance they have the money to pay Dru to backup Zach for 2 more years. Dru will likely look for the biggest possible deal and I doubt a team gives him more than 1 year if they pay him well since he's unproven as a start/outside of the Bombers' nest
"Dru will likely look for the biggest possible deal " how can you read his mind? know his intentions?
Brown has said in public he loves being mentored by zc ... that is very big
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One thing this site is not is gracious in victory... humility actually works and I believe MOS and his teams are just that ... bullying might be sweet in the short run but its a world that brings out the worst in everyone ... I like MOS ' s approach and that's how he gets the best out of his buy-ins.
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1 minute ago, 17to85 said:
What 2002 when milt stegall got hurt in the game before the playoffs and Doug brown was hurt? And Charles roberts got hurt on the first play of the west final?
Cause they tried the no rest there and it it them there too.
Bottom line it's preparedness. Show up and be mentally strong.
I am sticking to my opinion that "resting" can cause rust and over confidence just like it did to Toronto this year.
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2 minutes ago, 17to85 said:
The 2001 Blue Bombers who beat Hamilton in the east final and played in the Grey Cup?
Your memory sucks.
My memory does suck, its crazy. Then I was thinking of another year.
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Toronto's loss reminds me very much of the 2001 Blue Bomber western final loss ... we dominated the whole season and "decided" to rest the stars AND Glenn Suiter Rod Black style kept our most important players out to keep them from getting injured ...
Well we came out flat as a pancake and could not shake the rust off ... no Grey Cup appearance for the most deserving players ... assk Milt Steagall for details:
"Offensively, Winnipeg topped the circuit with 509 points. The defense proved to be a force, as the Blue Bombers surrendered 383 points, lowest in the league. Khari Jones led the charge, throwing for 4,545 yards. Milt Stegall caught 81 balls for 1,214 yards.
Charles Roberts rushed for a team-high 620 yards, while Eric Blount also buoyed the ground attack.
Juran Bolden picked off 6 opponent throws. Doug Brown blasted opposing passers 7 times."
https://www.statscrew.com/football/roster/t-CFLWPG/y-2001#google_vignette
I believe when a team has that big a lead for 1st place, on every "nothing game", all the starters need to play at least the first half, if not the whole game ... the secondary players only come in when victory looks likely (see Tom Brady). Last year it cost us a Cup when ZC hurt his wheels but we were still VERY close. A little more intensity earlier in the game and it would not have been close.
I do not expect a relaxed attitude this time... the whole team has something to prove ... and yes talent overcomes luck ... just like yesterdays Hail Mary TD
- Pepper_Brooks and Noeller
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2 hours ago, BBlink said:
Right? On many plays he had some time to throw the ball. Speaks to the DBs and the Bombers controlled rush. You knew the rush was going to get there, but they were very disciplined
I expect the CONTROLLED method was the key to the whole game ... it was the KEY mindset that was the difference maker ... AND it will be the same strategy for Cody Fajaro ... rinse and repeat
no need for hero plays
- Mark F, BBlink and Bigblue204
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25 minutes ago, GCn20 said:
Anyone read the absolute drivel by JC Abbott at 3DN? It suggests the Bombers win was a fluke and he blames Adams for ruining a masterful BC performance. Good gravy..
I have been sorta Keepin' Tabs on 3DN ... all year ... there is a definite attitude there ... even when the Blue were in their glory after a great game, 3DN would focus on the loser and analyze what went wrong ... they just would NOt give it up for the Bombers
- JohnnyAbonny and Noeller
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5 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:
I'm really hoping they add Garbutt or Haba in place of Bighill.
Maas will never stick with the run so having Jeffcoat out there 2/3 to 3/4 of the snaps as fresh as he can be and the young rushers teeing off when he's not out there would be pretty impactful.
Keep running that look with 3 WIL/MLB type guys out there, 6 DB's almost every down unless it's like 2nd and 15, Walker out there 3/4 of the time with Lawson in for the rest.
Let Hansen focus on special teams and you have him if you need him. Cover teams will be huge though so save up that energy.
I guess see where the receivers are but might be a good idea to pop McCrae off and add Rose whether he plays corner or maybe his role in this game is to dominate on kick cover.
I expect MOS & Ritchie's decisions on Biggie's replacement will be best ... they keep inserting players that they are familiar with & likewise their team mates .... lesser players are more because of greater harmony ... it might why MOS has stuck with Jackson ... he has knowledge of where ZC will be ... a newbie at the FB position might not as much ... and we don't know what effect Jackson's indominable spirit might spread to the people beside him ... he might be the least talented player on the field but it is just possible that Michael O'Shea might know what he is doing ... maybe its NOT a blind spot
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The footing seemed ok but probably not the best
Although VA got around ok his ankle was still a factor ... psychologically or physically or both ... I do not know
Was he planting his feet well for his longer passes?
More importantly he has been like a greased pig all year driving Ds crazy ... we saw none of that yesterday, not once did get away for a real running gain... our D is good but not that good for a totally healthy Adams ... did he even squeeze out of the pocket once? Its sorta a little like ZC in last year's cup ... just not at peak performance because of the wheels
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12 hours ago, Sard said:
Votes were submitted earlier this week so the decision has already been made. Technically, the playoffs aren't supposed to dictate the winners of the awards, but I think we were shown who the true MOP is in the division finals.
So Kelly will win ... maybe they will have to revise their methods
1 hour ago, Booch said:Id rather have Rose in if that the case...as he comes up and makes the tackles....Houston dives at guys and hopes he trips them up for the most part....or will get burned biting on a fake
I expect they probably sub Rose for Biggie but maybe they add a Yankee receiver
9 minutes ago, Jpan85 said:Fajardo was still sacked 7 times yesterday. Montreals oline is not good.
When was the last the Blue had 10 sacks in a game?
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3 hours ago, Brandon said:
That's what she said.... N-e-ways....
My nerves are finally calming down from watching the game. As long as the boys come out with a sense of urgency and without taking it easy because it is the Als then I feel good for the finals.
they won't after losing GC last year when they could have won
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On 2023-11-06 at 8:30 PM, bb1 said:
Damp cold my ass, we played hockey outside back in the day when they used that crazy number to tell you how cold it was and that day was like 3500 + we had ice dripping off every stitch of clothing,scarves,eye brows, we had to warm up every ******* 20 min in the shack... when its -40 and windy in Winnipeg there isn't anywhere in the world with people, that's colder....🥶🥶🥶
the big deal is footing ... will it be greasy or will the players be able to cut on a dime .... VA avoids the rush because of his nifty acceleration out of the pocket & he needs that perfect surface
further throwing accuracy is highly related to being able to plant and shift weight for balance and throwing accuracy
around zero feels like melt and freeze ... then it becomes who falls down the most
ZC is probably better in greasy conditions
luck is going to be a big factor
MOS is a make-your-own-luck kind of leader .... character you say!
- Wanna-B-Fanboy and bb1
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Brown loves ZC and the Blue ... he works out a deal as heir apparent ... its about the heart and about not being stupid for a little extra cash ... LT thinking will prevail
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With teams over the salary cap, significantly, do the penalties have any sting?
I heard we could lose draft picks but has anybody lost a draft pick?
With their attendance, how does Toronto keep coming up with this amazing amount of talent? The coaches and back office don't seem to be impoverished either.
So what gives, really?
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COMPLACENCY
I know our players are top drawer. I do not believe a single player is dogging it. That's notwithstanding the non-rotation on the D line. Of course players have to pace themselves. Everyone in the league does.
So why are we seeing the letdowns?
Our top people are all in. There is no give up in them.
I am just seeing the cumulative effect of small "nicks". I would not be surprised if Collaros is not suffering from the same. I also believe he is trying to do too much. Could he relax a little better? I think so. They can't double-team the whole receiving core. We have to see the lacks in their unbalanced schemes. And we can just adjust and play to that. You don't have to go into the dressing to make adjustments.
We used to be amongst the best red zone defences. Now, it's different and I'm not sure how.
Does Hall not have a different philosophy inside our own 25 yard line. Are we filling gaps? Are we hitting them with the unexpected? We picking the right moments to blitz? Used to be we just rolled up our sleeves down there, and six points turned into three.
Are we lacking the intensity and imagination to get it done?
I don't think we can just out-wrastle them. We have never done that kind of thing very well.
There are so many little things that just aren't happening. We need a big play here and there. That puts new oxygen in the blood.
We have way too many close games. The one thing I believe we have never done well is press home our advantage when we have it. We seem to resort to a Lapo-style defensive style when we have the lead.
I personally would have been gratified if we had scored 20 points or more in the second half of the second Saskatchewan game. That's not pride. That is chest thumping confidence.
It's been a long time since I've seen a 60 point game and it would've been the perfect prescription for what ails us. Football is not about gentlemen's rules. If we had scored 65 points in that game we would been singing at the top of our lungs:
"WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS!"
Then we would be taken more seriously. We would take ourselves more seriously!
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LEADERSHIP
there has been much discussion about the best head coaches of all time making personnel decisions with their aging all-stars
perhaps the quickest road to high skill levels comes from having an excellent mentor… The mentor apprentice conducted by a true professional model teaches things that take years of experimenting for rookies and sophomores to learn
what is vital to leadership is something called "succession planning"… It applies to football as much as it does to business
in 2024 & 2025 we are going to have to make some decisions (gradually hopefully) on the following players
Jeff Jeffcoat
Adam Bighill
Brandon Alexander
Winston Rose
Willie Jefferson
Stanley Bryant
Jamarius Hardrick
Patrick Neufeld
Zach Collaros
that is nine players on the leeward side of their careers... Still all-stars but for how long?
If we could do a couple this year heading into the playoffs, and three in spring Of 24 and the rest in the spring of 25, we have a decent shot at continuing to be champions
I have been a devoted bomber fan since 1961. In that time I have seen several dynasties including the one we are in. Most of them made the same mistake in not planning to grow new all-stars. The years of drought that followed as management panicked were appalling. Turnarounds at that point where well-nigh impossible.
What O'Shea built here with Walters has been amazing. However, O'Shea is a relatively young head coach. Like my first successful business I thought it would last forever, until it didn't.
Somebody needs to give MOS some mentoring on renewal. As the posters have said above we could do that now by getting some of the taxi squad onto the field. We do not have to wait for next man up. Injured players are not great mentors.
May the dynasty continue!
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7 hours ago, Blue In BC said:
Raising the cap just means the same group of players is getting more money. Players going into free agency might move to other teams and vice versa for more money. Not every team is making a profit so some giant increase to the SMS is neither feasible or some miracle solution. It's always been a bidding war trying to get the best bang for the buck.
Would Collaros play better if he was getting $880K instead of $600K more or less. Kelly gets over $600K after 10 games? It just means that players reaching free agency get more as the pie is larger. Desjarlais as another example.
My point was simply that coaching & support sstaff should be taken out of the players salary cap
2 minutes ago, 17to85 said:This is why it is so frustrating when the offense gets bogged down. It's so bloody stacked there should be no excuses.
AMEN !!!
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