17to85

It's always gotta be a black and white issue, eh? Always about the polar extremes... Don't forget the persecution complex

Because I know more about concussions than doctors and I saw him get hit! He's one hit away from being a vegetable for life!!11!!!!

because if you get his head wrecked again too soon there starts to be a law of diminishing returns on this sort of thing. and if you've got a potential long-term #1 in Willy (i think he can be), you use the kid gloves on him... ...or you wander through another long desert of Max Halls, Joey Elliots, Steven Jyleses, Alex Brinks, Justin Goltzes and who knows how many more false dawns until you get your next legit heir to Dieter. A completely healthy player could get his head wrecked too. It's playing scared and you don't need to do it. If the doctors have said Willy is healthy to play let him play.

And Walters record is 8-12 so far and there's still holes on the team. I get liking this group better but don't use the record to justify that. I'll stand by the claims that Mack left the team in better shape than Kelly did as well. Not to mention I already acknowledged that Mack was not a player in free agency and didn't have as much success drafting as he needed 2. When talking strictly about recruiting american players Mack blows Walters and co. out of the water whether people liked the guy or not. as to the second point, does depth matter if your starters aren't good enough?

Good stuff. Every scout has areas where they are better at recruiting/assessing than others. It's part of the reason you have multiple scouts. Can't blame McManus for all the teams shortcomings in recruitment, he is only one of many. On top of that assessing talent is only half the battle. Getting them to come to Canada and sign a contract can be just as daunting a task as finding them. Who is to say that McManus hasn't turned up some gems at DE, or R only to have them walk away from the 45k a year we offered them. Joe Mack didn't have trouble getting DEs to come to Canada. Just excuses. There are areas our scouting and recruiting is lacking and it needs to get better. No excuses. People complained about what Mack brought to Canada and they'll complain about what Walters brings to camp and they'll complain about what the next GM brings in as well. Winning solves all issues. How long is the leash for this front office? 2 years? 3 years? The CFL routinely has 33% turnover from year to year so it's a constant rebuild/reload scenario for most teams. Many on this board have stated that they can see an improvement in the National depth which is harder to develop than airmailing in players from the US. The biggest issues surrounding bringing in players through the tryout camps is guys that do not have a passport and the length of the contract. For some players (especially those that are looking to use the CFL as a stepping stone back to the NFL) the 2+1 contract makes them return to beating the bushes looking for a sniff at an NFL. People only ever complained about Macks drafting and lack of interest in free agency. I don't recall anyone seriously complaining about his ability to find american players because he always brought in guys who could play. He just didn't have the draft success needed or hire the coaches required. Honestly I want to like this group we have, they do a lot of good things, but you can't deny there are areas in their recruitment that are lacking thus far that needs to get better. Right now I've got Walters about the same level as Taman was when he was here. Can find some good players but not consistent enough in his ability to bring guys up north. Cares more about the draft that Taman though and that'll be the difference between the two.

If he's healthy he's healthy why rest him? He had a chance to sit and watch the offense last year when he was hurt so that's not even a consideration to me. You can't play scared.

Florida that can barely pay the bills and Buffalo who had other targets? You're not even trying you're just throwing names out there with no basis in reality. I'll say it again, Ladd has more value to Winnipeg than he does anywhere else.

It depends on the market. If he was a UFA this year he would have cleared 7 mil. Who would have signed him? You're not answering my questions. Who is going to give Ladd that kind of deal? The only guys to get that kind of money this year in free agency are young players, one ROR, is a massive over pay but he's young and the other is a near 40 goal scorer. FA was way down this year and it's because the cap didn't move much. People signed some stupid deals in years past expecting the cap to keep rising at a fast rate and that didn't happen and it caught a lot of teams without a lot of wiggle room. Ladd as popular as he apparently is among Winnipeg fans is not someone teams target at the kind of money being talked about here. Too old and simply not good enough to be the target for that kind of money. Everyone would love a guy like Ladd.... at the right price. over 6 million for 6 or 7 years is not the right price.

Who is going to sign Ladd to that kind of money long term? Who has A, the cap room to do it and B the need for a guy like that in his 30s? He has more value to WInnipeg than anyone else.

But what about the other players on the roster who will need raises? Have you seen the price of doing business with defencemen lately? The key for Ladd will be a deal that takes him to 34 maybe 35. After that you don't want the guy still on a big ticket contract. I can't see him being in demand enough around the league that someone else will give him that much for that long. He's got more value to the Jets in my eyes than he would anywhere else. Gotta be smart about contracts you give these days or else you wind up like Boston selling good young players for pennies on the dollar because you're in a cap crunch.

Knowing Kevin Glenn, I have absolutely no faith that we actually win in 2007 with him at the helm. Revisionist history. I remember the 2007 season clearly, and if Glenn doesn't have his arm broken, we kill the Riders with our defense alone. Hell, they came within 4 points of winning the damn thing with Dinwiddie, and that included an "interception" that actually skipped off the turf and wasn't overturned because no replay yet... Could have .. should have .. would have .. doesn't matter. "Close" only counts with horseshoes and hand grenades. I believe the point is "close with our backup qb making his first ever start when he had 4 turnovers on rookie mistakes" Obviously they didn't win, but they were missing a pretty significant piece in that game I think I still lay awake at night every now and then thinking about the 2001 and 2007 Grey Cups... 2001 was far worse to me. They came out like gang busters, but Westwood fucks the dog and they're up 4-1 instead of 9-1. sets the completely wrong tone for the game.

But most of that is also stuff that only caters to the already obsessed. That is one way of looking at it. The other way is that the daily Bomber reports in the papers are already a solid 30% filler - I'd give an example if I had a paper in front of me - and this is far more interesting than any of that nonsense. So why not use this instead to pad the word count? You are part of the already obsessed though. For the filthy casual, who makes up most of the readership they just don't have the indepth knowledge of what's going on that we have. We are the elite fans ladies and gentlemen, No one caters to us, no one needs to because we can find out what's going on without having to rely on the papers.

Why do you think thats too much? Consistent goal scorer. Consistent point producer. Advanced stats shows he drives offensive play and makes his linemates better. He hardly misses games. He's in his prime. He has two cups. He's the captain. I think $6m is about fair market value. And if we agree $5.5 is better, you're also buying X amount of years of Free Agency and rewarding him for intangibles of leadership and loyalty. I think there is something to how you treat players. Doesnt mean over-paying (I think we all agree Little would get more on the open market). But if they played hard ball with the Captain, players will remember that. If both sides negotiate in good faith, it means something. That right there is why. Sure Ladd now is worth it, Ladd getting to 35 years old though? No sir. There's going to be a drop coming, You give Ladd a long deal at big money you're going to regret it by the last few years. Especially with Canada heading to a recession and the dollar dropping, that'll affect how much the cap rises. Just because Buffalo handed out stupid contracts to guys like O'Reilly doesn't mean the Jets should do the same. I'd say a deal like that for Ladd would be similar to the deal the Oilers gave Horcoff a while back and it was a terrible deal in the long run because it was too much for too long for a guy poised to start into the back part of his career.

But most of that is also stuff that only caters to the already obsessed.

even 6 years 6 million is too much for my blood for Ladd. If he wants that kind of money 4 or maybe 5 years tops.

Knowing Kevin Glenn, I have absolutely no faith that we actually win in 2007 with him at the helm. Revisionist history. I remember the 2007 season clearly, and if Glenn doesn't have his arm broken, we kill the Riders with our defense alone. Hell, they came within 4 points of winning the damn thing with Dinwiddie, and that included an "interception" that actually skipped off the turf and wasn't overturned because no replay yet... Could have .. should have .. would have .. doesn't matter. "Close" only counts with horseshoes and hand grenades. I believe the point is "close with our backup qb making his first ever start when he had 4 turnovers on rookie mistakes" Obviously they didn't win, but they were missing a pretty significant piece in that game

I would like to see the ages of the players and their point production at the time they signed those deals though. ******* Ladd is 29 years old, you don't commit to guys that age for 7 years at that big a ticket, especialyl when some of your teams most interesting prospects are high end talent wingers. You wanna pay Ladd 7 million per year when he's 35 and pushed down the lineup to 3rd line minutes?

Everyone remember how good Troy Smith looked in Montreal when no one had the book on him and how useless he was after that? Once CFL teams know how to stop a guy he doesn't have that rookie success forever.

I wonder how Glenn would have been viewed if he hadn't got his arm broken in 2007 and had won that Grey Cup... No one talks as much **** about Burris as they do Glenn and Burris is every bit the fair weather qb Glenn is. Terrible in the cold weather and pressure situations but he fluked out that one Cup win and no one questions him.

Good stuff. Every scout has areas where they are better at recruiting/assessing than others. It's part of the reason you have multiple scouts. Can't blame McManus for all the teams shortcomings in recruitment, he is only one of many. On top of that assessing talent is only half the battle. Getting them to come to Canada and sign a contract can be just as daunting a task as finding them. Who is to say that McManus hasn't turned up some gems at DE, or R only to have them walk away from the 45k a year we offered them. Joe Mack didn't have trouble getting DEs to come to Canada. Just excuses. There are areas our scouting and recruiting is lacking and it needs to get better. No excuses.

Everyone is playing zone so far this year in their base defense. It's pretty much impossible to play the man/match coverages when you can't run receivers into "checkpoints" downfield and toss them off their routes without it being called a penalty. The Bombers problem is in their front.Agreed. We are getting almost zero pressure on the QB's. The main reason why Hamilton dominated Willy (after that first drive) and then Brohm was that they dominated in the pass rush and residually controlled the run game with that pressure and the score. Until we get some consistent pressure we could have Roy Bennett, Rod Hill, James Jefferson, and Vince Phason back there and we'd still look silly. So far, on defense, IMO the biggest disappointment has been Westerman. Has he even made a tackle yet? Is he even playing? I don't even see him when the bombers D is on the field.While Westerman has not made anyone forget Doug Brown, there's lots of blame to go around. If none of his linemates can consistently break through in one-on-ones then the opposition can put two on Westerman and that's the end of that. If memory serves, the biggest pressure last year came when Teague Sherman blitzed from his outside linebacker spot. Maybe we could name this lot "Four on the Floor".Why would westerman make anyone forget about brown? Ones a tackle and ones an end.. Smh.He does make me forget starting Richardson as an end or when we had was it.. Riall Johnson? Another NFL journeyman ex Argo that was a canadian end. Westerman will be fine and if he brings even a level of peachness then I'm happy as a canadian Greg peach is pretty solid. I'd take a Canadian Greg Peach, trouble is the other end has American Greg Peach and that's a problem. Need one of the ends to be a terror on qbs. Honestly though I'm far more concerned about the tackles. Turner I am a huge fan of but he ain't done **** so far this year and Anderson I think I've seen only one or two plays of note out of him.

Everyone is playing zone so far this year in their base defense. It's pretty much impossible to play the man/match coverages when you can't run receivers into "checkpoints" downfield and toss them off their routes without it being called a penalty. The Bombers problem is in their front. Agreed. We are getting almost zero pressure on the QB's. The main reason why Hamilton dominated Willy (after that first drive) and then Brohm was that they dominated in the pass rush and residually controlled the run game with that pressure and the score. Until we get some consistent pressure we could have Roy Bennett, Rod Hill, James Jefferson, and Vince Phason back there and we'd still look silly. So far, on defense, IMO the biggest disappointment has been Westerman. Has he even made a tackle yet? Is he even playing? I don't even see him when the bombers D is on the field. Anderson and Turner haven't done much of anything either. I like both of those players but they need to start taking control of the line cause they've got their asses kicked both weeks so far.

Honestly too much being made of the Hamilton blitzes in my mind... They still managed 25 points and yes a lot of that was after the game was already academic, but that to me says they still managed to score and make plays against it, the real problem was the D couldn't get a stop at all. I want to know why the Bomber blitzes were ineffective.

Sutton Sadly betting against the Bombers D probably isn't a terrible idea.

Even under video review pass interference is still highly subjective and inconsistent. I just wish that they would clarify exactly what PI is and call it the same within each game. Nothing worse than a cheap PI call going one way and the same thing being let go later in the game.