TBURGESS
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Posts posted by TBURGESS
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28 minutes ago, ShyGuy said:
This is a rough, rough take. I guess she should have just quit her job 2 years ago because boys will be boys and she wouldnt be in this predicament.
I've seen this constantly in management. Kick the can down the road because you are sure the woman is going to tough it out because she doesn't want to be seen as weak or just hope she eventually quits on her own and the problem goes away. There is no doubt in my mind had they extended her contract and changed her role subtlety to minimize her contact with Kelly she would have stuck through with it for 2024 as well, and if this same thing happened in that off season it would be "well why was it so bad now and not in 2022, or 2023, or 2024". This is a tale as old as time and has been happening in pretty much every male dominated industry and then people cry out "why isn't there more diversity in our workplace, why is there so few female applicants or why do they never last" and it's like no **** why.
I've fired Software Developers before because they couldn't keep their comments about female co-workers to themselves and the workplace was better off for it.
I didn't say boys will be boys, nor do I think it.
I'm saying it's hard to bring a lawsuit when you've put up with the same behavior for 2 years & when you'd sign up to keep taking the same behavior again. That makes the whole suit about not being offered another contract, instead of what it should be about... workplace harassment.
A truly horrible take is the behavior is OK as long as I get paid.
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2 minutes ago, 17to85 said:
Are you serious?
She's filing this because she feels like unacceptable behavior was swept under the rug and they just rid of her instead of addressing her concerns.
You've talked to her so you know what she's feeling?
Note todays article: https://3downnation.com/2024/03/01/toronto-argos-qb-chad-kelly-denies-harassment-allegations-seeks-dismissal/
QuoteAccording to a report from TSN’s Rick Westhead, a former strength and conditioning coach is suing the Argos for alleged wrongful dismissal and Kelly for alleged harassment during the 2022 and 2023 seasons.
The plaintiff is seeking $295,603 from the Argonauts and $50,000 from Kelly. She claims the Argos breached the CFL’s violence against women policy by not submitting a critical incident report to the league’s head office.
She's claiming harassment for 2 seasons. I guess the 2022 harassment wasn't enough to make her quit & the 2023 harassment wasn't enough to make her quit. (Possible Constructive Dismissals) Not getting a 2024 contract offer makes the 2022 and 2023 seasons harassment bad enough to sue. The numbers have changed since the first report and they added the claim of breaching the CFL's violence against women policy. She now wants $345K for not offering a $25K contract.
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1 hour ago, WBBFanWest said:
Again, it is not that cut and dried, and your comparison to a player contract is just plain silly. Apples and oranges. But I'm not going to explain all the nuances of employer/employee law to someone who believes that he knows way more than he clearly does.
Please go ahead and explain it.
QuoteThe phrase "constructive dismissal" describes situations where the employer has not directly fired the employee. Rather the employer has:
- failed to comply with the contract of employment in a major respect
- unilaterally changed the terms of employment, or
- expressed a settled intention to do either thus forcing the employee to quit
Constructive dismissal is sometimes called "disguised dismissal" or "quitting with cause". This is because it often occurs in situations where the employer offers the employee the alternative of:
- leaving, or
- submitting to a unilateral and substantial alteration of a fundamental term or condition of their employment
Which of these do you think applies?
She didn't quit with cause or fail to comply with a contract. The company didn't change the terms of employment or force her to quit.
If they had offered her a contract and she turned it down because of the situation, then she'd have a constructive dismissal situation, but that's not what happened. She's complaining that they didn't offer her a new contract. Why would she complain if the situation made her work environment untenable anyway? If they offered and she accepted, then she'd be accepting Kelly's behavior.
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59 minutes ago, GCn20 said:
Nice...minimizing sexual harrassement. You must be a fun guy at the office parties. In what world is hitting on a co-worker to the point of harrassment, then starting rumors about her to her co-workers, then threatening her with harm, acceptable to you? This is not acceptable behavior in any professional setting....EVER.
I'm not minimizing anything, nor did I didn't say it is acceptable to me.
This comment proves what I'm actually saying. You've already decided guilt based on only one side of the story. You assume that anyone who wants to know the other side of the story is a horrible human being who thinks sexual harassment is OK. Par for the course. Have an opinion based on part the information and then attack those who question your opinion.
55 minutes ago, WBBFanWest said:If you do some research, you'll find that, depending on the contract, not renewing can be considered constructive dismissal, which is actionable by the employee. Without knowing all the terms of this particular contract, it's impossible to say if this is or isn't. Just that it's not that cut and dried.
Assuming that the contract has an end date that has passed, then the team doesn't have to renew it even if they have renewed it multiple times before. That's one difference between contract workers and employees.
Lets take Bailey as an example. Multiple contracts. Didn't do anything wrong. Bombers decided not to pick him up this year. No harm. No foul.
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It's not wrongful dismissal. They didn't dismiss her, they simply didn't pick up her next contract.
Corroboration of at least the bus part of the complaint should be easy, but we don't even have that yet, but assuming the story is true, and we only have her side of it, it's workplace harassment & likely uttering threats.
People need to stop throwing around terms like 'Sexual Predator'. It weakens the term so much as to be useless. Asking a girl out, even multiple times, and complaining that she was going out with someone else on a bus doesn't rise to the level of Sexual Predator.
Everyone jumping on the bandwagon to 'protect' her after only hearing her side of the story is exactly why they went to the media in the first place. Kelly & Murphy have already been convicted in the court of public opinion. The Argos can't attack her or the story without coming off as evil. IMO that's why we won't see anything in the press from there side.
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2 hours ago, 17to85 said:
Everyone lost their minds when they brought in Peterson, what a great pickup! I was the only one pointing out his hands sucked...
Congrats! You were right, once, 19 years ago.
- Jesse and Bigblue204
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IMO Calgary's problems were a ton on injuries and a QB who hasn't learned when it's better to throw the ball away than to try and fit it in.
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That's a Texas sized Yee Haw from me! I wasn't expect Brady to be back.
- BigBlueFanatic, Tracker, MOBomberFan and 1 other
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1 hour ago, WinnipegGordo said:
Looks like Vernon Adams is the latest QB to rework his contract.
Come on Zach, everyone is doing it.
Source?
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We're paying $800K for our QB's (600K+140K+min $ 3rd string QB), which is more than we paid last year, likely more than any other team is paying its QB stable.
Brady's worth north of $180K and Schoen is worth north of $250K on the open market. Both of those salaries are way higher than last year (Brady 100-110K, Schoen not even on the top 20 list).
Cutting some part time starters and special teams players, replacing them with min salaried players, won't be enough to offset the bigger salaries.
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Both of them will wait until tampering week to find out what they are worth on the open market.
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58 minutes ago, GCn20 said:
Only problem with your little diatribe is that 3DN acknowledged that Dunk reported salary in that article was incorrect and retracted it. Second thing wrong is that you are comparing 2023 Adams salary to 2024 Brown. Please provide us with Adams 2024 hard money before proclaiming that Brown is "making more" than Adams. Third, going solely off "hard money" is ridiculous. Lets just say for arguments sake that Adams reported contract in the article you referenced was correct, even though the math was horribly incorrect and Dunk acknowledged the reported amount was incorrect, that would mean he made 345,000 last year. Let's also assume for the sake of argument that he has the worst agent in history and never negotiated a raise for this year. That means that Vernon Adams contract is at minimum 50k more per year, and he made 45k more last year than what Dru Brown can possibly earn on his contract. Therefore, you saying that Brown is making more than Adams is grossly incorrect and not by 1k but by 50k in contract value. Third thing is that you can't possibly know if Brown is overpaid or not right now. No one can possibly say he was over or under paid at this point and time. If he tears it up this year he could very well be underpaid, just as VA was last year.
Please provide a link for the retraction & your new numbers. I haven't seen any of it. Until then, your argument is 'If I make up a bunch of numbers without sources then apply them to another made up number without sources... that proves you are wrong'
As I stated in my 'diatribe', I don't know what Adams '24 salary is so I can only compare his '23 salary to Brown's '24.
You think that starting salaries for QB's has gone up significantly since last year? I don't. Looking at the article for the 15 highest paid QB's in 2023, #2 BLM, #3 Harris, #4 Masoli, & #5 Maier have all taken pay cuts. #6 Cornelius has been cut. #9 Arbuckle hasn't been re-signed. #14 Kelly got a huge payday because he proved that he earned it by taking the Argos to 16-2.
New Contracts this year:
BLM: Hard 225K, Max 312K - https://www.tsn.ca/bo-levi-mitchell-restructures-contract-with-hamilton-tiger-cats-1.2058216 2023 - Hard 502K Max 520K
Masoli: Hard 326.2K, Max 508K - https://3downnation.com/2024/01/08/six-figure-roster-bonus-deadline-looms-for-qb-jeremiah-masoli-ottawa-redblacks/ 2023 - Hard 425K Max 433K
Maier: Hard 339K, Max 381K - https://3downnation.com/2024/01/11/stampeders-give-qb-jake-maier-six-figure-signing-bonus-in-exchange-for-salary-cap-space/ 2023 - Hard 405K Max 447K
Harris: Hard 473K, Max 500K - https://3downnation.com/2024/01/15/riders-give-qb-trevor-harris-quarter-million-signing-bonus-for-salary-cap-space/ 2023 - Hard 500K Max 500K
I'd say that QB money has gone down or stayed the same this year.
Adams vs Brown:
Adams started in the CFL 2016, has passed for 13K+ yards and run for 1400+ yards. Started 29 games. Signed by BC in 2023
Brown started in the CFL 2021, has passed for 1.4K+ yards and run for 110+ yards. Started 3 games. Signed by Ott in 2024.
You, and others think that means Brown should get about the same amount of money, cuz that's what starters make, but we don't even know if he will be the starter yet.
Brown got a contract based on what they hope he can do, not on what he has done. I call that an overpay & yes, you can say a contract is an overpay if it doesn't match what the player has done. He'll get the money no matter if he turns out to be Arbukle-ish or Reilly-ish or somewhere in between.
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12 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:
A better comparison would be Reillys first contract as a starter to Browns. Pretty similar starting points if I'm remembering correctly.
I agree, but Reilly's the only QB in the last decade to get overpaid for what he'd accomplished and lived up to the hype.
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2 hours ago, JCon said:
The confidence with which some people post their ignorant opinions is staggering.
He won't get $300k.
He's making more than VAJ.
From: https://3downnation.com/2024/01/24/qb-dru-brown-signs-two-year-contract-with-ottawa-redblacks/
QuoteBrown received a $137,500 signing bonus, part of his $286,000 in hard money for the 2024 season with playtime incentives giving him the chance to earn $340,000. In 2025, Brown is slated to earn $355,000 in hard money with incentives reaching $400,000.
Fact: $286K < $300K
From: https://3downnation.com/2023/04/17/the-cfls-15-highest-paid-quarterbacks-for-2023-season/
Quote8) Vernon Adams Jr., B.C. Lions (A)
Hard money: $285,000
Maximum value: $350,000The six-year veteran received a $115,000 signing bonus to ink a new deal with the Lions and will collect another $20,000 when he takes his first snap in 2023. He will also receive a $2,500 bonus each time he plays at least one percent of B.C.’s offensive snaps in each of the club’s regular season games.
Fact: $286K > $285K
Opinion: The redblacks overpaid him because they are a crap team that has to overpay to get the players they want just like we used to have to.
Your confident ignorant guess as to how much Brown would get was better than my confident ignorant guess. Congratulations. Take a victory lap. You've finally earned one.
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2 hours ago, GCn20 said:
His contract was reworked and extended on Feb 8/2023 thru the 2024 season. According to Dunk he was to get over 400k for 2023 prior to his contract extension. Stands to reason that he definitely did not rip up that contract and extend for less. I would hazard a guess that he is definitely in the 450-500k range for last year, and this coming season.
https://3downnation.com/2023/02/08/b-c-lions-extend-contract-of-qb-vernon-adams-jr-through-2024/
From April 2023: https://3downnation.com/2023/04/17/the-cfls-15-highest-paid-quarterbacks-for-2023-season/
Quote8) Vernon Adams Jr., B.C. Lions (A)
Hard money: $285,000
Maximum value: $350,000The six-year veteran received a $115,000 signing bonus to ink a new deal with the Lions and will collect another $20,000 when he takes his first snap in 2023. He will also receive a $2,500 bonus each time he plays at least one percent of B.C.’s offensive snaps in each of the club’s regular season games.
Note this is after the article that you posted & the article you posted said he'd make just over $400K IF he made all of his bonuses, which is definitely NOT $450-500K.
From Jan 24/24: https://3downnation.com/2024/01/24/qb-dru-brown-signs-two-year-contract-with-ottawa-redblacks/
QuoteBrown received a $137,500 signing bonus, part of his $286,000 in hard money for the 2024 season with playtime incentives giving him the chance to earn $340,000. In 2025, Brown is slated to earn $355,000 in hard money with incentives reaching $400,000.
According to two articles from the same source, Brown, a complete unknown, is making more hard money with a higher signing bonus than Adams & his maximum is just $10K lower than Adams signed for last year.
What I'd like to know, and I haven't found out, is what Adams is scheduled to make in '24. It's likely higher, but that doesn't change the fact that Brown is making out like a bandit because Ottawa is a crap team that has to overpay to get players, just like we used to be.
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8 minutes ago, GCn20 said:
I think you are misinformed on how much Adams will be getting this year.
How much is he getting then?
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12 hours ago, Goalie said:
I think 300k is going rate for a possible 1 who has looked as good as dru has now a days. It’s not Zack money. It’s 2nd contract after showing serious potential elsewhere QB going rate. Fair deal.
It's more than Adams is getting. You know Adams, been in the league since 2016, thrown for more than 13,000 yards, ran for 1400, the third best QB in the league last year, took his team to the Western Final, that Vernon Adams.
2023/2024 CFL (Non Bombers) Off Season News
in Blue Bomber Discussion
Posted
A job you hate isn't the same as being harassed at your job. If you want to say the reason you left is harassment, you have to actually leave. Claiming it after they don't offer you another contract weakens your case significantly.