Old Bomber Fan

I think any coach who bends to the wishes of the fans, like us, is not a good coach. With that said any coach who cannot see that their offense has stalled, continues to stall in the second half of what the last 3 games, and does absolutely nothing about it other than try to justify it through stats, also is not a good coach. So either way you look at it MOS is not really a good coach and frankly doubt he will ever bring a Grey Cup to Winnipeg.

Personally I believe a coach can be a "player's" coach as well as a disciplinarian. The biggest asset any coach can have is an ability to communicate to the players and his staff. In that communication he has to make sure they (referring to all including coaches) understand the standards he expects of them and the consequences should they not be met. Unfortunately I believe MOS can communicate with his players and his staff but unfortunately has not been able to communicate the standard expected or the consequences if not achieved. Instead he seems to defend in public for sure but not sure in the room or the coach's offices. This I believe is the big problem. I have seen coaches over the years who are both player coaches (Riley for one) and disciplinarian (Murphy for example) and then some that were both (slot in Grant). They were all successful and I think it was because they followed through with the consequences. Setting short term and long term goals for players and the team itself is standard coaching 101 but in setting them they have to be realistic, attainable and consequential. I haven't seen that from MOS to date.

Personally I believe a coach can be a "player's" coach as well as a disciplinarian. The biggest asset any coach can have is an ability to communicate to the players and his staff. In that communication he has to make sure they (referring to all including coaches) understand the standards he expects of them and the consequences should they not be met. Unfortunately I believe MOS can communicate with his players and his staff but unfortunately has not been able to communicate the standard expected or the consequences if not achieved. Instead he seems to defend in public for sure but not sure in the room or the coach's offices. This I believe is the big problem. I have seen coaches over the years who are both player coaches (Riley for one) and disciplinarian (Murphy for example) and then some that were both (slot in Grant). They were all successful and I think it was because they followed through with the consequences. Setting short term and long term goals for players and the team itself is standard coaching 101 but in setting them they have to be realistic, attainable and consequential. I haven't seen that from MOS to date.

Interesting that this discussion regarding Lapolice and Hall has been on going for three years. I think his record speaks for itself. While he has had a winning record the past 2 seasons, not counting this year, his success is really limited. I know that is a contradiction but in reality it isn't.....he is unable to adjust......he is unable to game plan against winning teams on a consistent basis but does pull out a win occasionally against better than 500 teams and becomes very predictable with a lead. That doesn't go back 3 years that goes back to when he was our OC the first time. He took a very good offense designed by Rick Worman and road it for a year then the decline started and was fired I believe the third year he was here. So history is repeating itself. As for Hall well he too has a Grey Cup to his credit but his defenses are old school and out of date. He cannot devise schemes to create pressure, Oshea said as much on open mike in Calgary; he doesn't put his players in a place to gain success. 
And Oshea well it has been said here many times he is simply too stubborn to see the forest for the trees and that is a fault not a virtue. Finally some will say we don't have the talent, yet each year we hear how we have improved and how great training camp was etc etc. Reality is I believe we have good talent; problem is they are not being given the direction, schemes, and ultimatums to succeed. Save a few while they all want to win they realize deep down that should they fail, the coach has their back. Not that I am a Jones fan but he is not afraid to trade, sit, or chastise players for poor play,,as a result the players play with passion and determination regardless of their abilities. Hence a 3 game winning streak and us a 3 game losing streak soon to be 4 if someone doesn't push a few buttons between now and Saturday. 
As always sure hope someone does but my skepticism overpowers my hope I'm afraid. Good luck though all things are crossed.

Think bad defenses have followed Hall in recent years. He is unadaptable to various offenses and frankly in my opinion his theories are past history and not of the current CFL. With that said the defense cannot be on the filed for as long as they have been. The 2 and outs are far too frequent for our offense and that does not provide the defense an opportunity to regroup recharge and get after it when returning to the field. I think you can place the blame on both sides of the ball and that is not excusing the defense as I have always said the talent can change but the results will not as long as they play with Hall's schemes. We simply got outcoached by both coordinators and HC. Simple

Don’t only blame Nichols think LaPolice has a hand in it as well

Don’t only blame Nichols think LaPolice has a hand in it as well

Offence still doing very little 2 and outs too many too frequently. Being out coached yet again

Said this several years ago, LaPo is not a great coordinator. He cannot or at least doesn't seem to adjust as the game goes on and certainly not at half time. He has had the luxury of having Harris in the second half of most games and as was mentioned last night, they appear to be a front running team or at least one that can play when they are close at the half. If they are behind any amount his running game goes down the tubes and he doesn't have a QB who can throw like Harris and for that matte the QB doesn't have the game plan that Ottawa did. 
In a nutshell we got out coached in all phases of our game. Our defense was terrible and Fogg had probably the worst game of his career. Saylers (not sure how to spell it) did not play well either. The game plan was terrible. Our offense ditto the defense, not prepared and far to heavily weighted on Harris. Our HC, wrong personnel decision: Langford, get rid of him you have at least three others either on the PR or on the sideline that can play better than him. His kick off returns east west instead of north south. Flanders far superior to him in every regard regardless of position. Challenging a play in the first quarter just another dumb coaching move. Too early in the game.
The reality is we are a talented team with mediocre stubborn coaching.

Said this several years ago, LaPo is not a great coordinator. He cannot or at least doesn't seem to adjust as the game goes on and certainly not at half time. He has had the luxury of having Harris in the second half of most games and as was mentioned last night, they appear to be a front running team or at least one that can play when they are close at the half. If they are behind any amount his running game goes down the tubes and he doesn't have a QB who can throw like Harris and for that matte the QB doesn't have the game plan that Ottawa did. 
In a nutshell we got out coached in all phases of our game. Our defense was terrible and Fogg had probably the worst game of his career. Saylers (not sure how to spell it) did not play well either. The game plan was terrible. Our offense ditto the defense, not prepared and far to heavily weighted on Harris. Our HC, wrong personnel decision: Langford, get rid of him you have at least three others either on the PR or on the sideline that can play better than him. His kick off returns east west instead of north south. Flanders far superior to him in every regard regardless of position. Challenging a play in the first quarter just another dumb coaching move. Too early in the game.
The reality is we are a talented team with mediocre stubborn coaching.

Said this several years ago, LaPo is not a great coordinator. He cannot or at least doesn't seem to adjust as the game goes on and certainly not at half time. He has had the luxury of having Harris in the second half of most games and as was mentioned last night, they appear to be a front running team or at least one that can play when they are close at the half. If they are behind any amount his running game goes down the tubes and he doesn't have a QB who can throw like Harris and for that matte the QB doesn't have the game plan that Ottawa did. 
In a nutshell we got out coached in all phases of our game. Our defense was terrible and Fogg had probably the worst game of his career. Saylers (not sure how to spell it) did not play well either. The game plan was terrible. Our offense ditto the defense, not prepared and far to heavily weighted on Harris. Our HC, wrong personnel decision: Langford, get rid of him you have at least three others either on the PR or on the sideline that can play better than him. His kick off returns east west instead of north south. Flanders far superior to him in every regard regardless of position. Challenging a play in the first quarter just another dumb coaching move. Too early in the game.
The reality is we are a talented team with mediocre stubborn coaching.

Said this several years ago, LaPo is not a great coordinator. He cannot or at least doesn't seem to adjust as the game goes on and certainly not at half time. He has had the luxury of having Harris in the second half of most games and as was mentioned last night, they appear to be a front running team or at least one that can play when they are close at the half. If they are behind any amount his running game goes down the tubes and he doesn't have a QB who can throw like Harris and for that matte the QB doesn't have the game plan that Ottawa did. 
In a nutshell we got out coached in all phases of our game. Our defense was terrible and Fogg had probably the worst game of his career. Saylers (not sure how to spell it) did not play well either. The game plan was terrible. Our offense ditto the defense, not prepared and far to heavily weighted on Harris. Our HC, wrong personnel decision: Langford, get rid of him you have at least three others either on the PR or on the sideline that can play better than him. His kick off returns east west instead of north south. Flanders far superior to him in every regard regardless of position. Challenging a play in the first quarter just another dumb coaching move. Too early in the game.
The reality is we are a talented team with mediocre stubborn coaching.

Think bad defenses have followed Hall in recent years. He is unadaptable to various offenses and frankly in my opinion his theories are past history and not of the current CFL. With that said the defense cannot be on the filed for as long as they have been. The 2 and outs are far too frequent for our offense and that does not provide the defense an opportunity to regroup recharge and get after it when returning to the field. I think you can place the blame on both sides of the ball and that is not excusing the defense as I have always said the talent can change but the results will not as long as they play with Hall's schemes. We simply got outcoached by both coordinators and HC. Simple

Said this several years ago, LaPo is not a great coordinator. He cannot or at least doesn't seem to adjust as the game goes on and certainly not at half time. He has had the luxury of having Harris in the second half of most games and as was mentioned last night, they appear to be a front running team or at least one that can play when they are close at the half. If they are behind any amount his running game goes down the tubes and he doesn't have a QB who can throw like Harris and for that matte the QB doesn't have the game plan that Ottawa did. 
In a nutshell we got out coached in all phases of our game. Our defense was terrible and Fogg had probably the worst game of his career. Saylers (not sure how to spell it) did not play well either. The game plan was terrible. Our offense ditto the defense, not prepared and far to heavily weighted on Harris. Our HC, wrong personnel decision: Langford, get rid of him you have at least three others either on the PR or on the sideline that can play better than him. His kick off returns east west instead of north south. Flanders far superior to him in every regard regardless of position. Challenging a play in the first quarter just another dumb coaching move. Too early in the game.
The reality is we are a talented team with mediocre stubborn coaching.

I agree with Tracker. I was looking back a Bowman when he was with the Bombers previously and he was let go because he couldn't catch consistently. I was wondering what happened to turn him into the great receiver he was with Edmonton. After some review it showed he was used a lot on crossing patterns and hooks etc. In Edmonton he was a vertical receiver seldom going across the middle. Then he comes back to Winnipeg and he is no longer a vertical player  but a crossing receiver, similar to Dressler. He won't catch a lot of balls there simply because he does not want to be hit dead on so he is not concentrating as much on catching and is now worried more about who is coming and when he will be hit. I think a big difference. 
I also agree with his comment regarding LaPo offenses. He has always been this way and what was it 2 years ago he said he went south to learn from other coordinators and brought back a lot of that information to implement in his system. Not sure where it went because many D coordinators can game plan against him without worry of the deep ball....sort of makes their job a little easier.
Yes Nichols had a bad game but the coaches had a worse one in my opinion. On the first goal line gamble I agreed at least if we didn't make it they would be deep in their zone. The other I thought were bad decisions. As for the 3rd and 4th quarters, well we did what we do time in and time out.....we take our foot off the pedal and coast, we go away from what was working to 2 and outs or INTs, our defense sits back and gives too big a cushion. 
It is hard to believe that it is the talent because the talent on defense especially in the back end has changed yet the results are the same. The soft pattern in the second half of the game is consistent with what has been going on with this team since MOS arrival. So like many here I agree and have stated before the coaching has to improve....use your players' strengths and minimize their weaknesses. Put your players in a position to succeed not fail. Coaching 101.
The refereeing this game was very questionable in my mind. I guess I don't understand horse collar tackle anymore. I always thought is was when a player tackled another by the neck grabbing and using the shoulder pads to bring him down. Jeffcoat didn't grab the shoulder pads, he grabbed the back of the jersey up by the collar. I believe that happened a second time as well. As for the roughing the passer penalties, well I'm not sure how a player who is trying to get to the QB can hold up when the QB releases the ball a spit second before he arrives.
Oh well let see what happens next game.

If you read then I would suggest you read again....I am not blaming Streveler for anything. What I said was I'm not sure he has the arm strength to throw the ball downfield. When he attempts it he is normally under throwing the receiver....review the games for proof. I like the guy and hope he can throw the long ball....he just hasn't shown it yet. On another note when someone posts something you oppose, which is their right to post and your right to oppose, perhaps it would be civil to respond in a less than demeaning manner? It only downgrades your character. Oh and by the way I do wear glasses and they are clean so I can see, but thanks for the tip.

I believe it has been said for over 3 years now that Hall's defense is outdated in the CFL. MOS said after last year that he was going to be more involved in the defense....is he and if he is what has changed? In my opinion nothing much. In two games against worthy opponents, we have been torched for over 480 yards in each. The other game, against Montreal, well I can't really count that one but will give credit that we stopped them to a respectable number. Point being made is we have been told we have a better group of DBs who have been brought in and those who remain have a year of experience under their belts. The results are the same; open receivers, too soft coverages, broken coverages, poor tackling, little pressure and the list goes on. Is it the talent or the system the talent is playing in? Seems to me if we have better talent and are still getting burned, it must be the system. So if it is the system why hasn't MOS changed it as he said he would? If it is the system why hasn't Hall recognized that after 3 years and corrected it.
On another note, while the game was not great in the first half, we were nonetheless in the game. Hamilton made adjustments and I can only suggest we didn't because they clobbered us in the third quarter! This again is a very similar scenario from last year, no adjustments at half time and other teams making them that resulted then and now to disaster in the third quarter.
Is it player ability, is it player mentality or is it coaching? I'll leave that answer up to you for judgement.
On the offense, LaPo does not, will not or cannot stretch the field. His mentality is to throw short or at best medium routes and hope for YAC yards. This has not changed since he was here first as an OC many moons ago. He, as many have stated, overthinks things and that results to a stifling offense which is easily defended....see third and fourth quarter results. Most great coaches utilize the strengths of their individual players and minimize their weaknesses. I look at Adams and Bowman, two receivers who do not like going over the middle or crossing routes but are more adept at deep patterns. What are they being asked to do....run crossing patterns. They are not going to catch or for that matter make any great effort to catch a somewhat catchable ball....they do not want to get clocked! So utilizing the strengths of your players rates a failing grade for LaPo yet again. 
Then there is our rookie QB. While I like him and like him a lot, and after only 3 games, I think he has a fundamental flaw unless of course it is LaPo doing his thing again. I don't think he can throw a long ball. I don't think his mechanics will permit him to throw a 30 or 40 yard ball. Interestingly every time he has thrown long with success it has been the receiver either coming back to the ball or the defender falling down. What ever happened to throwing to a spot? Ever notice that our receivers are seldom in full stride catching a ball but rather are stationary? Just my observation.
So I guess we now know where we stand with our rookie QB and new players. We frankly are no further ahead that where we were last year, not that the final standing from last year were anything to sneeze about. Expectations and the rhetoric was we were going to be so much better with the new talent etc and here we stand, 1-2 with a defense that continues to allow tons of yards and points and an offense that when needed fails to execute for whatever reason.
Now I know there will be those who say it is only game 3 and you are right......but beware in the two games where we played quality teams we were beaten badly. And as someone else has said we won't win anything with a Hall defense. Hope I am wrong but it sure looks similar to last year.

I believe it has been said for over 3 years now that Hall's defense is outdated in the CFL. MOS said after last year that he was going to be more involved in the defense....is he and if he is what has changed? In my opinion nothing much. In two games against worthy opponents, we have been torched for over 480 yards in each. The other game, against Montreal, well I can't really count that one but will give credit that we stopped them to a respectable number. Point being made is we have been told we have a better group of DBs who have been brought in and those who remain have a year of experience under their belts. The results are the same; open receivers, too soft coverages, broken coverages, poor tackling, little pressure and the list goes on. Is it the talent or the system the talent is playing in? Seems to me if we have better talent and are still getting burned, it must be the system. So if it is the system why hasn't MOS changed it as he said he would? If it is the system why hasn't Hall recognized that after 3 years and corrected it.
On another note, while the game was not great in the first half, we were nonetheless in the game. Hamilton made adjustments and I can only suggest we didn't because they clobbered us in the third quarter! This again is a very similar scenario from last year, no adjustments at half time and other teams making them that resulted then and now to disaster in the third quarter.
Is it player ability, is it player mentality or is it coaching? I'll leave that answer up to you for judgement.
On the offense, LaPo does not, will not or cannot stretch the field. His mentality is to throw short or at best medium routes and hope for YAC yards. This has not changed since he was here first as an OC many moons ago. He, as many have stated, overthinks things and that results to a stifling offense which is easily defended....see third and fourth quarter results. Most great coaches utilize the strengths of their individual players and minimize their weaknesses. I look at Adams and Bowman, two receivers who do not like going over the middle or crossing routes but are more adept at deep patterns. What are they being asked to do....run crossing patterns. They are not going to catch or for that matter make any great effort to catch a somewhat catchable ball....they do not want to get clocked! So utilizing the strengths of your players rates a failing grade for LaPo yet again. 
Then there is our rookie QB. While I like him and like him a lot, and after only 3 games, I think he has a fundamental flaw unless of course it is LaPo doing his thing again. I don't think he can throw a long ball. I don't think his mechanics will permit him to throw a 30 or 40 yard ball. Interestingly every time he has thrown long with success it has been the receiver either coming back to the ball or the defender falling down. What ever happened to throwing to a spot? Ever notice that our receivers are seldom in full stride catching a ball but rather are stationary? Just my observation.
So I guess we now know where we stand with our rookie QB and new players. We frankly are no further ahead that where we were last year, not that the final standing from last year were anything to sneeze about. Expectations and the rhetoric was we were going to be so much better with the new talent etc and here we stand, 1-2 with a defense that continues to allow tons of yards and points and an offense that when needed fails to execute for whatever reason.
Now I know there will be those who say it is only game 3 and you are right......but beware in the two games where we played quality teams we were beaten badly. And as someone else has said we won't win anything with a Hall defense. Hope I am wrong but it sure looks similar to last year.

I sure hope I am wrong but don’t believe he is the stud MLB that some believe he is. While he was just starting his career he was at the time anything but a run stopper. When he did make a tackle he jumped around like it was a miracle....says to me a showboat and more about him than the team. His or perhaps his agent has done. Othing to suggest that has changed. I just want a middle linebacker similar to Moe or Randy....make a tackle or a stop or an interception as if that is what you are paid to do....no big hoopla just doing the job. Don’t have this feeling with him but hope that if we do sign him he will prove me wrong....just saying

I sure hope I am wrong but don’t believe he is the stud MLB that some believe he is. While he was just starting his career he was at the time anything but a run stopper. When he did make a tackle he jumped around like it was a miracle....says to me a showboat and more about him than the team. His or perhaps his agent has done. Othing to suggest that has changed. I just want a middle linebacker similar to Moe or Randy....make a tackle or a stop or an interception as if that is what you are paid to do....no big hoopla just doing the job. Don’t have this feeling with him but hope that if we do sign him he will prove me wrong....just saying

First it isn't really a stupid comment....they have rebuilt is a short period of time, as has Edmonton with Mass and Ottawa in three years been to the cup twice, as has Hamilton after a dismal start finished strong, as has Toronto first in the east this year. While the eastern teams standings and records are below the Bombers it nonetheless shows you that teams can rebuild and must rebuild quickly in this league. Then again there are those who will continue to run into the dam hoping to bust it open and only get a sore head doing it. 
People on this forum have given MOS and the DC and the OC grace for the past 3 years saying they are getting better just look at their record. Are they really??? Record has improved, some good players are here, but the blunders in coaching remain. A defense that ranks near the bottom or at the bottom in most catagories except turnovers, and offense that for some reason abandons what is going well for them only to start a string of 2 and outs putting added pressure on the already beleaguered defense, and a HC that too often relies on gadget plays to make yards and hopefully a win. I personally believe you can go to the well only so often before it comes up dry...in this case he got away with what I would call a stupid gamble on our what 21 yard line and then tried a fake punt later on only to have that backfire and take the wind out of the sails of the entire team. It was very noticeable. The last second TD and 2 point convert, well what was that anyway......an attempt to make the score look better or what???? There remains significant issues with this team. While they have banded together well, let's see how well when free agency gets underway...how many will stay for another year if they feel they will be successful to win the grey cup...or will they bail for the money or a better chance at a cup. If they believe they have a great shot at the cup here in Winnipeg, then let them speak with their commitment.
The team needs better back ups, better techniques, better coaching period. LaPo and I will give him credit made progress this year but continues this trend to abandon what is working for something else. He did scheme to throw the ball long as the season went on good for him. Still lots of room for improvement. Hall has to go period! MOS has got to grow up and make better game time decisions and stop being so stubbornly loyal to players who are not performing, plain and simple. And for Walters he has to reevaluate his personnel, there are major upgrades to backup players required.
We will see next year but if I hear "oh we upgraded better than every other team this off season" without changing personnel a great deal, I will say what I said at the beginning of this year....look around other teams don't stand still as you might think....they too are looking to upgrade so ours had better be good. This year it wasn't!

So here we go 3 man rush and Calgary makes hay; no more Harris and lots of 2 and outs. Come on Hall and LaPo

So here we go 3 man rush and Calgary makes hay; no more Harris and lots of 2 and outs. Come on Hall and LaPo

I would suggest that the game plan was for Dressler and Harris to be the go to guys this game. I think Dressler was targeted at least 15 times whereas Denmark 3. I stand to be corrected on the exact number. What that says to me in my humble opinion is Denmark was a secondary or third receiver in this scheme. LaPo has done this in the past. If you recall the last time Dressler returned to service he was targeted the most yet again even with Adams in the receiving corps. Interesting that Denmark is tied for the lead for TDs on the team. I just get this feeling that Denmark and in this instance Givens were not the main focus of this game plan. It is somewhat sad because LaPo seems to loose sight of the fact that when all receivers are involved in the game the attack is much more balanced and effective. If you look at the past two games, the offense has struggled and in both it has been either Adams until he was hurt and then no one, or in this one Dressler. I have a great deal of difficulty believing that the other receivers are covered or not putting out. Maybe if they are not  putting out as has been suggested it is because they are not involved in the game in a meaningful way. Yes I understand they have other duties to perform away from the ball but for an entire game??? I guess we will see what happens next game. Givens showed he could play, in my mind Denmark has shown he can play and Feilo G...., sorry can't spell his name, can catch as well. So why not use them???

Wasn’t suggesting dressier was washed up glad he was playing simply there were others on the field and it was all dressier no wonder the “secondary” players don’t or cannot step up