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Oh yeah one thing I didn't mention was the weird situation with the Wyatts and Brock Lesnar.

It is booked as Bray vs Brock, then the match is a 2v1 with Harper/Wyatt vs Brock, then Bray doesn't even participate so in reality it is Lesnar beating the **** out of Harper for 4 minutes or so.  Weird!

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2 hours ago, iso_55 said:

Well, as he died in his 30's with his potential never fulfilled therefore we'll never know, A lot of things might have happened in the next 17 years to change things. I just remember hearing the news of his death on a Sunday night on the radio where I was working an overnight shift & was stunned, Absolutely stunned.

Well Owen was 34 when he died. Anything is possible but it's highly unlikely he would have suddenly been pushed to an extent where he would have rivaled Bret. Rock and Austin and Hunter and undertaker were too big for Owen to break through. 

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6 hours ago, iso_55 said:

I won't argue with you about Owen because it makes no sense.

Which part?  It makes perfect sense.  Bret Hart was one of the biggest stars of all time.  Owen was a super talented mid-card guy who's top run was when his brother hand picked him for the program.  I love Owen.  Some argue he was a better worker than Bret.  But he wasnt and was very unlikely to ever be a bigger star.  Assuming he worked til he was 40 (and his wife says he was soon to retire), in those 6 years between his death and age 40, he would have had to go from being the Blue Blazer comedy act to a serious top guy and then win 7 World Heavyweight Championships just to equal Bret.

And in 1999, that simply wasnt going to happen.  He *was* probably going to win the IC title again but as the Blue Blazer doing comedy.  When the top of the card was Austin, Rocky, Hunter, Undertaker, Owen wasnt going to be a top guy.  Austin had heat with him.  Hunter claims to have loved him but the clique and the Harts never got alone and when Michaels & Hunter had power they nixed Owen's promised push.  It would have taken Rocky demanding to work a program with Owen.  And it wasnt going to happen.  Wrestling a business of trends.  Its rare for a guy to plug along at a medium level and suddenly get a push out of the blue.

In 2001, they bought WCW and were flooded with more workers, making it even tougher.  If anything, if he was able to become a fan darling (like Foley or Bryan) he might have gotten a short run with the title as a reward but I would bet against that happening.  But 7 world titles?  Never.

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So some interesting rumors/speculation.  This will sound nuts but most things involving the McMahon's are nuts.

There is some sort of minor power struggle between Vince and Hunter.  Publicly they say all the right things.  Hunter says Vince loves NXT.  Vince says he's so proud of what Hunter has accomplished.  But reportedly Vince hates NXT and sees it as an unnecessary expense for a touring brand filled with talent that will never draw.

Vince resents that people think he needs to step aside and let Hunter take over.  Vince is determined never to step aside.

Hunter has complete control of NXT but there have been examples of Vince showing Hunter up.  For example, before Charlotte joined the main roster, she did a surprise match on RAW to hype an upcoming NXT show and she lost in a squash.  Hunter remarked a few days later that he agreed it was stupid.

Tyler Breeze was considered a star in NXT with lots of potential but is a jobber on RAW.  Owens came in with a push but was then defeated by Cena in back to back matches.

There was heat on Hunter for not selling a beating on RAW - he was beat up an injured and then appeared on the NXT show a few days later and then back on RAW they had Roman say no one had seen Hunter since the previous RAW.  Made Roman look stupid.

So many people behind the scenes think Shane might end up back in WWE as an executive and be used by Vince to play off Hunter.  The real power struggle might eventually be Shane vs Hunter.  Shane did legitimately leave WWE because Steph was the chosen ahead of him.  But Vince might use him to put Hunter in his place.  Shane is really laid back so he might not want the office politics but I'd suspect he ends up back at WWE.  He apparently sold off most of his WWE stock and invested it in his China company which has been losing money.  So while he probably doesnt *need* money, he's only 46 and sees the tens of millions of dollars his sister makes...

Last RAW, Shane's promo was changed at the last minute.  He was supposed to respond to everything Stephanie had said in her promo and say he hoped she and Hunter kept their word and quit after WM because if not, he was going to fire them both on RAW the next night.  It was re-written so Shane never responded to Stephanie (which was weird), and to bury Vince as old and out of touch. 

Games are being played.  The outcome of Shane vs Undertaker could be pretty telling.

There was also heat on Hunter for how he played to the crowd while beating up Roman and the crotch chop was seen as him basically thumbing his nose at Roman.  Hunter *was* a big Roman supporter but might not be anymore.  The scene where Hunter and Bray did the face to face and the fans responded is to make fans think Hunter might win at WM, and thus is setting up his next program.  But some think it's actually Hunter putting into motion a plan to win at WM, turn face and feud with Bray. 

That's why I think if anything, the Wyatt's might help Shane win.  And the swerve becomes Shane turning heel.

This is all moot if Shane decides he doesnt want to be around.  By the way, Shane is working with Tommy Dreamer to prepare for his match.

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11 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

The WWE is reminding me a lot of WCW at the end of it's days, where the backstage/real life stuff is more interesting than the stuff they put on TV.

Absolutely! I love the backstage stuff.  Its not as fun as it used to be now that WWE is so corporate.  But there were some good stories for awhile.

One of the reasons Heyman was fired is because Steph hated him.  He was booker of Smackdown and she was booker of RAW (she was actually in charge of both but Paul had a lot of freedom with SD).  Paul considered the brand extension to be "real" and wanted to beat RAW in the ratings.  Which SD did consistently at this time.  Paul got the code to phone into a RAW creative meeting and would listen to their plans.  Steph found out one day (there was an extra "beep" on the line) and she was furious that Paul was "spying" (one big happy company, right?).  Paul was eventually moved to ECW and after the awful December to Dismember PPV where Vince changed a bunch of things and Heyman was openly insubordinate to Vince backstage while watching, he was canned.

Steph was always paranoid.  She insisted that all the creative staff only use corporate cell phones and laptops so she could audit them whenever she wanted looking for leaks.

Hunter was notorious for cutting guys' balls off.  Since he "retired" he's been a lot better but its still pretty apparent he cant view his own angles without ego getting in the way.  Saw a Scott Hall interview where he said he and Nash were at ringside when Hunter and Sting were going over their WM match and Hunter laid out the finish and Hall couldn't believe that Sting was laying down.  He said Sting should have had it in his contract that he gets a win at WM because "ofcourse Hunter is going to go over..."

EDIT: Another thing is that Vince is pretty smart when it comes to money and corporate.  He will work with anyone to make money and water under the bridge.  Hunter & Steph hold grudges (although to be fair Hunter brought back Billy Gunn).  When AJ Lee, while under contract, sent Steph a nasty tweet about women being treated poorly compared to men in WWE, Steph was ready to strangle her and Vince cooled her off and made her publicly thank AJ for bringing it up.

Daniel Bryan is apparently at RAW tonight.  Hunter met with Kurt Angle this past week which is interesting because there was heat between them a year or two ago when Hunter declined Angle's request to come back.  Coincidentally, RAW is in Angle's home town tonight....a place where, if he was to return, he'd get an earth shattering response.

Edited by The Unknown Poster

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3 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Which part?  It makes perfect sense.  Bret Hart was one of the biggest stars of all time.  Owen was a super talented mid-card guy who's top run was when his brother hand picked him for the program.  I love Owen.  Some argue he was a better worker than Bret.  But he wasnt and was very unlikely to ever be a bigger star.  Assuming he worked til he was 40 (and his wife says he was soon to retire), in those 6 years between his death and age 40, he would have had to go from being the Blue Blazer comedy act to a serious top guy and then win 7 World Heavyweight Championships just to equal Bret.

And in 1999, that simply wasnt going to happen.  He *was* probably going to win the IC title again but as the Blue Blazer doing comedy.  When the top of the card was Austin, Rocky, Hunter, Undertaker, Owen wasnt going to be a top guy.  Austin had heat with him.  Hunter claims to have loved him but the clique and the Harts never got alone and when Michaels & Hunter had power they nixed Owen's promised push.  It would have taken Rocky demanding to work a program with Owen.  And it wasnt going to happen.  Wrestling a business of trends.  Its rare for a guy to plug along at a medium level and suddenly get a push out of the blue.

In 2001, they bought WCW and were flooded with more workers, making it even tougher.  If anything, if he was able to become a fan darling (like Foley or Bryan) he might have gotten a short run with the title as a reward but I would bet against that happening.  But 7 world titles?  Never.

Done... You got all the answers to everything. Maybe we should change the title of this Thread to "Ask TUP" or the "TUP Says". This could be such  great thread if your ego wasn't always on display. It already closed one wrestling thread down.

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7 minutes ago, iso_55 said:

Done... You got all the answers to everything. Maybe we should change the title of this Thread to "Ask TUP" or the "TUP Says". This could be such  great thread if your ego wasn't always on display. It already closed one wrestling thread down.

The only ego on display is yours, a bruised one.  Bigg Jay had no problem engaging in discussion without insults or mockery.  Why can't you?  You expressed an opinion.  I expressed a different opinion.  If you feel strongly that you are correct, by all means, explain it to us.  If, after reading my explanation you are unable to formulate a counter-argument, then at least admit you simply cant express a logical counter thought, dont insult me.

I don't have all the answers to everything.  But as I'm involved in the business for the past 15 years, I do have a strong knowledge.  If you want to "Ask TUP", go ahead and ask.  If you want to share opinions, go ahead.  But why is ISO meant to proclaim an opinion and everyone is supposed to just agree and move on?  Owen Hart is a great topic for discussion.  A tremendous wrestler.  You started a relevant topic.  Unfortunately, you folded your hand so quickly.

Edited by The Unknown Poster

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So today in the Hogan vs Gawker trial, they are arguing about Bubba The Love Sponge.  Bubba is trying to quash his subpena to testify for Gawker (which is weird) and has said if forced to do so, he will plead the 5th.  He thinks he risks perjury because he initially told the FBI that Hogan knew about the filming but in his sworn deposition he said Hogan had no idea there were cameras filming. 

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5 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

The only ego on display is yours, a bruised one.  Bigg Jay had no problem engaging in discussion without insults or mockery.  Why can't you?  You expressed an opinion.  I expressed a different opinion.  If you feel strongly that you are correct, by all means, explain it to us.  If, after reading my explanation you are unable to formulate a counter-argument, then at least admit you simply cant express a logical counter thought, dont insult me.

I don't have all the answers to everything.  But as I'm involved in the business for the past 15 years, I do have a strong knowledge.  If you want to "Ask TUP", go ahead and ask.  If you want to share opinions, go ahead.  But why is ISO meant to proclaim an opinion and everyone is supposed to just agree and move on?  Owen Hart is a great topic for discussion.  A tremendous wrestler.  You started a relevant topic.  Unfortunately, you folded your hand so quickly.

I won't get drawn into an argument with you over Owen Hart as he died 17 years ago. You can't prove your point but neither can I. So like I said, I'm done arguing with you over Owen Hart. I won't be part of another wrestling thread shut down over something like this.

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56 minutes ago, iso_55 said:

I won't get drawn into an argument with you over Owen Hart as he died 17 years ago. You can't prove your point but neither can I. So like I said, I'm done arguing with you over Owen Hart. I won't be part of another wrestling thread shut down over something like this.

This is the silliest post I've ever read. But ok. If you come up with something to support your position im all ears. 

No doubt Owen was great. But Bret was top five of his generation. 

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I just felt Triple H carried Ambrose & set the pace of the match. You just felt he could have ended it anytime he wanted. Ambrose needs to spend a little more time in the weight room. I like Ambrose I just don't see him as a top face & is more of a mid carder. However, with so many of the top stars injured or retired, I can definitely see why he is getting a huge push right now.  Just my opinion. I'd like a discussion but don't want a huge fight over this.

Edited by iso_55

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5 minutes ago, iso_55 said:

I just felt Triple H carried Ambrose & set the pace of the match. You just felt he could have ended it anytime he wanted. Ambrose needs to spend a little more time in the weight room. I like Ambrose I just don't see him as a top face & is more of a mid carder. Especially when you compare what he can do vs Seth Rollins.  Just an opinion. Don't want a huge fight over this.

Is that directed at me? I didn't see the Hunter/Ambrose match.  

As for Ambrose I wasn't sold on him initially. But he has the "it" factor and has an emotional connection with the fans despite WWE trying to bury him for quite some time. And while he's thin, physique isn't as important anymore (to the fans, it's still important to Hunter and Vince)

my point would be if Ambrose for the same push Roman did where would he be right now? Because roman got the big push and is still being rejected while Ambrose was buried and is still the most over face they have. I can see the argument that he's not deep enough as a character to be a real top guy. But people would say that about Bryan too. Ultimately wrestling is pretty simple at it's base. When it doesn't work it's because they over complicate things. With a face side lacking, Ambrose was their top guy (next to Brock who is part time) but they went with Roman instead. 

Seth will be the biggest face when he comes back. And they will probably try to force him heel! Lol

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My PVR screwed up so I've only seen part of RAW but sounded like a dead crowd.  Apparently everyone in the building was buzzing about Kurt Angle rumors so that might have something to do with it. 

I don't know how much input Shane has with his angle but he's not being done any favours so far. 

They keep Roman off tv for weeks to give him the big return pop and he's boo'ed out of the building. I'm sure Hunter had a smile on his face....

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4 minutes ago, iso_55 said:

Roman Reigns is caught in some kind of Netherworld.  The only way for him to get over now is to turn him heel the Monday after WM. Attack Ambrose, I don't know but some kind of fast heel turn.

Should have turned him herl already. Unless something changes Id actually have Hunter win at WM....and turn roman heel. 

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They must have something up their sleeve for WM. Cena will probably appear but he's be boo'ed. Rock was boo'ed trying to endorse Roman once already 

maybe Seth appears to help Roman win....

supposedly Michaels has been offered two spots. Either guest ref for Hunter/Roman (Batista was asked first) or group appearance with DX (like DX/nWo last year). So.... DX helps Roman?  Still don't think that gets cheered. Maybe DX helping Shane?  Who knows. At least it's unpredictable  

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