iso_55 Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 The ratio & monetary issues are something the league can't overcome... the American teams paid their players in USD. So, let's just use today as an example. Any CFL free agent who signed with an American team would get his raise with a new contract plus 30% on the exchange. How can Winnipeg compete with that? Which is why Matt Dunigan left the Bombers for Birmingham. He would have been crazy not to. Damon Allen & Tracy Ham left their Canadian teams for US teams. I remember we also lost perennial all star DE Alfred Payton for the same reason. If that's not bad enough, we have to play with 7 Canadian starters as well as others on special teams as opposed to no Canadians on any of the US CFL teams. As Canadian fans figured this all out a lot soured on US expansion as it was rushed & poorly thought out. i don't recall anyone shedding a lot of tears for the defunct team other than Baltimore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearpants Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 I would be ok with American expansion under 2 MAJOR conditions... (1) a market close to Canada (not LA) and (2) they have to uphold that ratio... since it sounds like (2) can't be an option I am completely against it... Bigblue204 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 I would be ok with American expansion under 2 MAJOR conditions... (1) a market close to Canada (not LA) and (2) they have to uphold that ratio... since it sounds like (2) can't be an option I am completely against it... US Immigration laws won't allow the ratio. That's what happened before. A Canadian can't take an American's job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 If I recall, it is actually a legal issue in the States. US employment laws wouldn't allow them to mandate a number of jobs going to non Americans. I believe it falls under the "Dey tuk er jerbs!" laws. Noeller, wbbfan and Brandon Blue&Gold 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan007 Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 If I recall, it is actually a legal issue in the States. US employment laws wouldn't allow them to mandate a number of jobs going to non Americans. I think you can collectively bargain around certain laws. Such as anti trust etc. I would think this would be one of those too No you can't. The only American sports league to be exempt from anti-trust laws is MLB. Rich was right about American labour laws being the reason the American teams didn't have to deal with the ratio. Then how does the NHL work? Or any sport that employs Canadian citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 If I recall, it is actually a legal issue in the States. US employment laws wouldn't allow them to mandate a number of jobs going to non Americans. I think you can collectively bargain around certain laws. Such as anti trust etc. I would think this would be one of those too No you can't. The only American sports league to be exempt from anti-trust laws is MLB. Rich was right about American labour laws being the reason the American teams didn't have to deal with the ratio. Then how does the NHL work? Or any sport that employs Canadian citizens. I believe what the big hangup with American Immigration is the fact that the ratio means Americans can't earn a living in their own country & having to employ a certain number of Canadians on each US team. For the CFL to flourish in the States the ratio would have to be totally eliminated. The other is the overwhelming pool of talent in the United States. Why would American teams sign any Canadians even experienced veterans with the vast amount of homegrown talent available? It didn't happen last time with any American team & I believe there's no reason to think it would happen now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan007 Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 If I recall, it is actually a legal issue in the States. US employment laws wouldn't allow them to mandate a number of jobs going to non Americans. I think you can collectively bargain around certain laws. Such as anti trust etc. I would think this would be one of those too No you can't. The only American sports league to be exempt from anti-trust laws is MLB. Rich was right about American labour laws being the reason the American teams didn't have to deal with the ratio. Then how does the NHL work? Or any sport that employs Canadian citizens. The players have to be demonstrated as better than an American. It's recognized Canadian hockey players are. Football is different. You mean CFL is different? Cause NFL would probably have to work the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 There's a great book out, cant remember the name, about the US expansion. I recommend it (if I could remember the name lol). There was talk that attendance was not bad in some placed...until the fall when High School and College ball started and the CFL didnt realise how important those were to the small market fans. Had they played their games on "open" nights, they might have done better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 If I recall, it is actually a legal issue in the States. US employment laws wouldn't allow them to mandate a number of jobs going to non Americans. I think you can collectively bargain around certain laws. Such as anti trust etc. I would think this would be one of those too No you can't. The only American sports league to be exempt from anti-trust laws is MLB. Rich was right about American labour laws being the reason the American teams didn't have to deal with the ratio. Then how does the NHL work? Or any sport that employs Canadian citizens. The players have to be demonstrated as better than an American. It's recognized Canadian hockey players are. Football is different. You mean CFL is different? Cause NFL would probably have to work the same way. A hockey player isnt better because he's Canadian. There a many American hockey players better than many Canadian hockey players. I think sports leagues get a "pass" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 If I recall, it is actually a legal issue in the States. US employment laws wouldn't allow them to mandate a number of jobs going to non Americans. I think you can collectively bargain around certain laws. Such as anti trust etc. I would think this would be one of those too No you can't. The only American sports league to be exempt from anti-trust laws is MLB. Rich was right about American labour laws being the reason the American teams didn't have to deal with the ratio. Then how does the NHL work? Or any sport that employs Canadian citizens. The players have to be demonstrated as better than an American. It's recognized Canadian hockey players are. Football is different. You mean CFL is different? Cause NFL would probably have to work the same way. True. The CFL is different with their rules. I had taken that out of my post but you highlighted it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noeller Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 If I recall, it is actually a legal issue in the States. US employment laws wouldn't allow them to mandate a number of jobs going to non Americans. I think you can collectively bargain around certain laws. Such as anti trust etc. I would think this would be one of those too No you can't. The only American sports league to be exempt from anti-trust laws is MLB. Rich was right about American labour laws being the reason the American teams didn't have to deal with the ratio. Then how does the NHL work? Or any sport that employs Canadian citizens. The players have to be demonstrated as better than an American. It's recognized Canadian hockey players are. Football is different. You mean CFL is different? Cause NFL would probably have to work the same way. A hockey player isnt better because he's Canadian. There a many American hockey players better than many Canadian hockey players. I think sports leagues get a "pass" I disagree.....but that's just me /DonCherryFanBoi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearpants Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 The difference is the NHL doesn't mandate a certain amount of players make a team based on nationality... the 20 best hockey players are on the team regardless if they are Canadian, American, Swedish or Slovenian... iso_55 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WBBFanWest Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 The main difference concerning Canadians playing in the NFL or NHL is that positions are awarded on the basis of skill and skill alone, versus the CFL which awards positions based on skill and on nationality (ratio). Therefore if a Canadian can demonstrate that he has the skills to do the job in thr NHL or NFL, and there is not an available American that can do it better, the job is theirs. It helps that the determination of skill is completely subjective and therefore, very difficult to argue against. Easy to do in hockey, not so easy in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 Canadians can play in the US. They have to make the team. Since there'd be no ratio they would actually have to be the best player or players at their position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 If I recall, it is actually a legal issue in the States. US employment laws wouldn't allow them to mandate a number of jobs going to non Americans. I think you can collectively bargain around certain laws. Such as anti trust etc. I would think this would be one of those too No you can't. The only American sports league to be exempt from anti-trust laws is MLB. Rich was right about American labour laws being the reason the American teams didn't have to deal with the ratio. Then how does the NHL work? Or any sport that employs Canadian citizens. The issue is that the CFL limits the number of americans that can be on the roster, that's the hang up with American expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 If I recall, it is actually a legal issue in the States. US employment laws wouldn't allow them to mandate a number of jobs going to non Americans. I think you can collectively bargain around certain laws. Such as anti trust etc. I would think this would be one of those too No you can't. The only American sports league to be exempt from anti-trust laws is MLB. Rich was right about American labour laws being the reason the American teams didn't have to deal with the ratio. Then how does the NHL work? Or any sport that employs Canadian citizens. The issue is that the CFL limits the number of americans that can be on the roster, that's the hang up with American expansion. yeah, i don't think the CFL can expand successfully without eliminating the ratio entirely. I do remember reading years ago that the American teams were thinking of breaking away from the rest of the CFL to form their own league saying their fans didn't like Canadian 3 down rules. There was a famous college coach who was the HC in Memphis who never hid his despise for the Canadian game & went public with it. I know myself as a fan back then it sure didn't feel like the American teams were really a part of the CFL anyway with all American team rosters & the poor exchange on the Canadian dollar crippling Canadian teams. It was just strange time in the league back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBird Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 We sure found out the difference it made when all the players were Americans. Not to say all 7 players were better than our Canadians but even if only 4 were, that and the lack of the SMS did make a difference. The restriction on the number of Canadians that might play on an expansion team could fly is if our guys were chosen only because they were better than theirs as is done in the NHL but then those guys would be most likely be going to the NFL. I just can't see an expansion in the United States ever working unless we give up our Canadian ratio for the whole league. We would have better football in the new XFL. iso_55 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 It seems a bit odd for the US government to get all sweaty about this sort of thing, considering the low numbers involved and that the same government had been holding seminars at taxpayer expense to tell American businesses how to move their manufacturing and service jobs offshore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 It isn't the numbers, it is precedent. Imagine a business opening in Winnipeg that mandated 40% of its employees be US based citizens on a work visa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBird Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 It isn't the numbers, it is precedent. Imagine a business opening in Winnipeg that mandated 40% of its employees be US based citizens on a work visa. Temporary Foreign Worker Program Worked for the mining industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 Ovwrall, ould CFL fans be upset if we had no ratio anymore. How much does it matter to any of you? A lot? A little? None at all? It would be interesting to hear the responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 Ovwrall, ould CFL fans be upset if we had no ratio anymore. How much does it matter to any of you? A lot? A little? None at all? It would be interesting to hear the responses. Tons. The Canadian aspect of the roster and the draft are what make the league more than just a "B League" where NFL washouts go. If they eliminated the ratio I'd be a lot less inclined to follow the league. SPuDS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 Being able to identify Canadian players as such is a big part of my loyalty to the Bombers and CFL. No Canadian players, little interest- I may as well follow the Arena Football League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 I think it would really cause more turnover in rosters and we would become even more of a feeder league to the NFL. If you didn't need Canadians, then there would be no need for the draft. There are way too many American players for there to be a semblance of an import draft. So now when you have a losing season, you don't even get a first round pick the next year as a "consolation" prize. There would be very little trading, because all you are really trading now is neg list players. Experienced vets would still be a valued commodity but when was the last time an import was the main piece in a trade? QBs would still be a valued commodity, but why would you trade either of those guys away? The only thing another team could give you is a neg list player (which theoretically you should be able to find a bunch of equivalent neg list guys out there) or another experienced vet. But that rarely happens even today. With the abundance of Americans, I think you would see continuous turnover in the bottom half of the roster, and I'm already finding it difficult to identify with players on this team. Though that could be because we suck. bearpants 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noeller Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 If they ever took away the ratio, or even making it a smaller number, I'd lose a lot of interest. I don't love this league because I'm some huge football fan....I love it because I'm a rabidly proud Canadian. This is our game...anything that detracts from the Canadiana end of it is bad, in my books. Tracker and SPuDS 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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