Mike Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 ... James Franklin was actually added to our negotiation list by this regime in late 2013 and was on it for a decent portion of last year. All I could think about as I watched him torch us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
do or die Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Rider fans have same thoughts about Cato...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearpants Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Maybe we'll make Calgary feel that way about Davis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
do or die Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Well, we have the capibility.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBURGESS Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 I remember Mike posting that Franklin was on our Neg list before when I suggest we pluck him off of Edmonton's PR back in week 1. Considering our current backup QB's, letting Franklin go from the Neg List is a bit of a facepalm moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatty Liver Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 ... James Franklin was actually added to our negotiation list by this regime in late 2013 and was on it for a decent portion of last year. All I could think about as I watched him torch us. Thanks for opening up another wound Mike. Any details on how or why he got away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelownabomberfan Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 ... James Franklin was actually added to our negotiation list by this regime in late 2013 and was on it for a decent portion of last year. All I could think about as I watched him torch us. Thanks for opening up another wound Mike. Any details on how or why he got away? My only guess would be because he's not a statue/turnover machine so therefore MB didn't like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBlink Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Besides that throw to Bowman in the endzone, what jumped off the page to you? He was one hopping a lot of throws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigg jay Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 I remember Mike posting that Franklin was on our Neg list before when I suggest we pluck him off of Edmonton's PR back in week 1. Considering our current backup QB's, letting Franklin go from the Neg List is a bit of a facepalm moment. They may not have had a choice. He may have pulled a Jeff Fuller and told the Bombers he had no intentions of signing here, in which case they are required to drop him from the neg list. That's also how Cato ended up in Montreal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBURGESS Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 I remember Mike posting that Franklin was on our Neg list before when I suggest we pluck him off of Edmonton's PR back in week 1. Considering our current backup QB's, letting Franklin go from the Neg List is a bit of a facepalm moment. They may not have had a choice. He may have pulled a Jeff Fuller and told the Bombers he had no intentions of signing here, in which case they are required to drop him from the neg list. That's also how Cato ended up in Montreal. Nice story but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Franklin was trying to find work in the CFL as a raw rookie. Edmonton with Reilly doesn't sound like a better place to get a chance than Winnipeg with Willy. More likely that we were 'happy' with Willy, Brohm, Marve, Portis so we didn't need another QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigg jay Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Care to explain how Jeff Fuller ended up in Calgary when he was on our neg list or how Cato ended up in Montreal and not Saskatchewan? Those aren't stories, those are facts and they are recent examples of rookies looking for work yet rejecting the teams who held their rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yourface Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 I remember Mike posting that Franklin was on our Neg list before when I suggest we pluck him off of Edmonton's PR back in week 1. Considering our current backup QB's, letting Franklin go from the Neg List is a bit of a facepalm moment. Maybe so, but at the same time... We don't quite know what we have in Marve and Davis. If we had Franklin, it's probable that O'Shea would have Brohm ahead of him on the depth chart anyway. blitzmore 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted July 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 The thing about negotiation lists is this - players do have some rights, if they know the rules or their agents know the rules. Being on a negotiation list means you're entitled to a fair contract offer (basically league minimum). I believe that is how Fuller ended up in Calgary although I could be wrong ... but I believe we wanted to work him out before offering him a deal and he basically said "no, give me a contract offer" Now, considering Franklin was emailing teams around the league looking for a shot, I doubt that's what happened with him but yeah ... players aren't entirely without rights when they're on a negotiation list. Yourface 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBURGESS Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Care to explain how Jeff Fuller ended up in Calgary when he was on our neg list or how Cato ended up in Montreal and not Saskatchewan? Those aren't stories, those are facts and they are recent examples of rookies looking for work yet rejecting the teams who held their rights. Typical. Make up a story from your imagination. Say it's happened before in other places with other players and other GM's. Then try to change the conversation from 'Nice Story but you got no facts' to 'Why did it happen before then'. It's your story, so it's up to you to prove it happened, not up to others to prove it didn't happen. BTW: Franklin emailing teams trying to get a shot makes it very unlikely that your story is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweep the leg Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 It's your story, so it's up to you to prove it happened, not up to others to prove it didn't happen. The lack of self-awareness in this post is startling. bigg jay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigg jay Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Care to explain how Jeff Fuller ended up in Calgary when he was on our neg list or how Cato ended up in Montreal and not Saskatchewan? Those aren't stories, those are facts and they are recent examples of rookies looking for work yet rejecting the teams who held their rights. Typical. Make up a story from your imagination. Say it's happened before in other places with other players and other GM's. Then try to change the conversation from 'Nice Story but you got no facts' to 'Why did it happen before then'. It's your story, so it's up to you to prove it happened, not up to others to prove it didn't happen. BTW: Franklin emailing teams trying to get a shot makes it very unlikely that your story is true. LOL typical how? Show me one post where I've made something up from my imagination. Where is your proof Franklin was emailing teams? If you're using Mike's post a proof then I will back my post up with this. Just thought this was worth mentioning ... For all this talk about how bad our team is and if we're really right for assuming the staff is the issue, all that discussion as to whether the problem is the staff or the players ... There are now three players on other rosters in the CFL who were originally on our negotiation list but refused to play for this franchise because of apprehension due to the current staff that is in place. DE Eric Norwood on Hamilton, good rotational guy in his first CFL season. Very Kenny Mainor-esque. WR Jeff Fuller on Calgary, I'm sure we'd love to have a 6'4" receiver going across the middle like this guy has so far DE Aaron Maybin on Toronto, waited almost two years for this guy to show an interest in the CFL and then when he finally did, he said "sure, but not in Winnipeg" and now the former first round NFL pick is in Toronto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GCn20 Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Franklin was likely straight up dropped from our neg list when we wanted to add someone else instead. Cato, was asked by the Riders to attend mini camp. He had just attended an NFL tryout the day before and did not attend the Riders mini camp. A couple weeks before the season started he contacted the Riders asking for a contract. The Riders had 10 days to offer him one but declined to do so. As per CFL by-laws, the Riders then had to drop him off their neg list. Neither Franklin, nor Cato, had any choice but to ask for and then sign a fair contract offer from the teams that neg listed them. You cannot opt out from the team that holds your neg list rights. If you turn down a fair offer from the team that holds your rights that team can return you to their neg list for a period of one year afterwards. If they offer another deal that is deemed fair and you turn it down it goes another year etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GCn20 Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Just so there is no confusion, a player on a team's neg list can remain there until a team decides to drop them, declines to make them a contract offer, or makes them an "unfair contract offer". So long as any team makes a fair contract offer to a player on their neg list within 10 days of them asking for one initially and before the anniversary of them declining one, a player's rights can be retained by the team whose neg list they are on. There is absolutely no way that Fuller, Franklin, or Maybin refused to sign with us and then went onto somewhere else without us voluntarily giving up their neg list rights. Just can't be done. If we wanted to retain any of their rights we had the option to do so. I would imagine that Norwood, Maybin, and Fuller may have expressed that they were not willing to come here so we voluntarily dropped them. Happens to every team all the time. A player is added to your neg list and you contact him and he states he doesn't want to come so you drop him and make room for someone else. Sometimes its the timing of when you ask, sometimes it's not a good fit geographically, and most of the time it's a lack of interest in the CFL. Hundreds of players are added and deleted from neg lists around the league every year. A lot of times it's because it is found they have no interest currently in the CFL. 3 or 4 months later and things can alter drastically in a football career. blitzmore and kelownabomberfan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Just so there is no confusion, a player on a team's neg list can remain there until a team decides to drop them, declines to make them a contract offer, or makes them an "unfair contract offer". So long as any team makes a fair contract offer to a player on their neg list within 10 days of them asking for one initially and before the anniversary of them declining one, a player's rights can be retained by the team whose neg list they are on. There is absolutely no way that Fuller, Franklin, or Maybin refused to sign with us and then went onto somewhere else without us voluntarily giving up their neg list rights. Just can't be done. If we wanted to retain any of their rights we had the option to do so. What's the point of keeping someone on your neg list if they don't want to sign with you? Yeah technically you could keep their rights forever, but if they flat out tell you "Nope not signing with you no matter what kind of contract I get offered" then you're only wasting your time and neg list spaces hanging onto them out of spite, might as well remove them and move on.;Sure you're giving them up willingly, but in a more accurate sense you're losing them because they don't want to sign with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GCn20 Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Just so there is no confusion, a player on a team's neg list can remain there until a team decides to drop them, declines to make them a contract offer, or makes them an "unfair contract offer". So long as any team makes a fair contract offer to a player on their neg list within 10 days of them asking for one initially and before the anniversary of them declining one, a player's rights can be retained by the team whose neg list they are on. There is absolutely no way that Fuller, Franklin, or Maybin refused to sign with us and then went onto somewhere else without us voluntarily giving up their neg list rights. Just can't be done. If we wanted to retain any of their rights we had the option to do so. What's the point of keeping someone on your neg list if they don't want to sign with you? Yeah technically you could keep their rights forever, but if they flat out tell you "Nope not signing with you no matter what kind of contract I get offered" then you're only wasting your time and neg list spaces hanging onto them out of spite, might as well remove them and move on.;Sure you're giving them up willingly, but in a more accurate sense you're losing them because they don't want to sign with you. It all depends on whether you consider the prospect to be blue chip or not and other variables. I would have kept Cato, for instance, if I were the Riders. He didn't show up for rookie camp and waited until the last minute before TC to ask for a contract. There was obvious tampering by Montreal, Taman even said he strongly suspected it. I would have tendered him an offer and kept him from the Als. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearpants Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Just so there is no confusion.. Don't worry, there will always be "confusion" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GCn20 Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Just so there is no confusion, a player on a team's neg list can remain there until a team decides to drop them, declines to make them a contract offer, or makes them an "unfair contract offer". So long as any team makes a fair contract offer to a player on their neg list within 10 days of them asking for one initially and before the anniversary of them declining one, a player's rights can be retained by the team whose neg list they are on. There is absolutely no way that Fuller, Franklin, or Maybin refused to sign with us and then went onto somewhere else without us voluntarily giving up their neg list rights. Just can't be done. If we wanted to retain any of their rights we had the option to do so. What's the point of keeping someone on your neg list if they don't want to sign with you? Yeah technically you could keep their rights forever, but if they flat out tell you "Nope not signing with you no matter what kind of contract I get offered" then you're only wasting your time and neg list spaces hanging onto them out of spite, might as well remove them and move on.;Sure you're giving them up willingly, but in a more accurate sense you're losing them because they don't want to sign with you. It is not necessarily accurate to say that you are losing them because they don't want to sign with you. You could easily be losing them because they prefer to sign elsewhere. If given no choice, it's hard to say whether or not they might change their tune. How many NFL players are thrilled to be drafted by the BIlls....probably not many....but they understand that's where their rights went and they sign a contract. A lot of them come into the organization and then change their minds about it. Would we release the rights of our first round draft pick if he suddenly decided that he wanted to play elsewhere? I would hope we wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 I wouldn't compare drafting players to signing free agents off a negotiation list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacquie Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 I can't remember the name of the player who was on our neg list in 2013 but when he signed with Hamilton that season he told their media that he had refused to sign with the Bombers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelownabomberfan Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 I can't remember the name of the player who was on our neg list in 2013 but when he signed with Hamilton that season he told their media that he had refused to sign with the Bombers. Chris Williams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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