Floyd Posted June 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 If Cotton goes down in a game and Messam is his backup, that is not a waste of a roster spot. I know we are fixated on the fact that Volny is irreplaceable on STs, but honestly, Eisho, Briggs or Jones will simply fill his role... and probably will anyway. With Newman down, we now have to waste a DI on LBs, add a DI at DL and DB... that leaves one for offence - it will be a REC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuranBoldenRules Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Will Ford can't catch punts, and Paris Cotton didn't show any ability to do that on his returns either, he let them hit the turf. I don't think either will be the primary returner, the only way having 2 IMP RB's on the roster works is if someone like Demond Washington returns punts. I think we'll see one import RB to start the season with Aaron Woods in a DI spot, if the RB goes down, the NI's take over and it'll be all passing on offence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 So aka chip says the negatives on the guy is that he can't block or catch yet in other posts it says he was used mainly as a blocker and that he had 300 yards out of the backfield. I think it makes sense to sign him mainly because of our need for non imports. Could we not have someone else play special teams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuranBoldenRules Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 So aka chip says the negatives on the guy is that he can't block or catch yet in other posts it says he was used mainly as a blocker and that he had 300 yards out of the backfield. I think it makes sense to sign him mainly because of our need for non imports. Could we not have someone else play special teams? Says he was looking at a role this season potentially as a tight end, likely speculation, much like the speculation in the article that the Bombers would be interested in him. Everyone assumes 6'3 245 means good blocker, but a guy who's 5'7 155 has a better chance of blocking someone if the 6'3 245 guy isn't interested in blocking and doesn't have any technique. If he's not going to start, he needs to play special teams. We're better off dressing another NI LB or DL who can add to our special teams over a guy who has no interest in playing football if he's not carrying the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbrg Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 With O'Shea I see us starting one of Ford or Cotton and DI'ing the other one as a "returner"Seems pretty straightforward, they will be using a DI spot for the backup RB, who will get some amount of returner duty. Perhaps all. I don't think anyone will dispute that 2011 Messam is a better RB than Volny. Who knows what he is now. He can't hold a job despite being a potential ratio-breaker, so he's probably not really a ratio-breaker anymore. However, for the sake of argument, let's say his superiority over Volny is not in dispute. I don't think anyone will dispute that Volny is a better ST player than Messam, since Messam doesn't play teams. So if Volny is not likely to touch the ball as a RB more than twice a game all season (rewarding the worker bees) but plays 18 snaps a game on teams, which Messam can't replace, and Messam is unlikely to get any more snaps at RB because our DI is outright better, then yeah, Messam is a waste of a roster spot. If his last name was Etienne you'd all be losing your minds about how big a waste of a roster spot he would be. Unless they want to DI a guy like aaron woods for returner and still have a good RB on the roster You know there's one more DI spot on the roster this year, right? It's up to 4. OShea is saying he's using one of those spots on a backup RB. That's why upgrading Volny to Messam is irrelevant. It accomplishes nothing. Cotton needs a rest, Ford goes in. Not Volny. Messam being better than Volny doesn't help the Bombers get better, unless he can play Oline, Dline, LB. Something like that. I'm all about upgrades but there has to be a point. OShea is telling you there is no point. Harbaugh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbrg Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 For what it's worth, Messam would have at least made a minor upgrade to this team last year, before the extra DI spot was added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuranBoldenRules Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 With O'Shea I see us starting one of Ford or Cotton and DI'ing the other one as a "returner"Seems pretty straightforward, they will be using a DI spot for the backup RB, who will get some amount of returner duty. Perhaps all. I don't think anyone will dispute that 2011 Messam is a better RB than Volny. Who knows what he is now. He can't hold a job despite being a potential ratio-breaker, so he's probably not really a ratio-breaker anymore. However, for the sake of argument, let's say his superiority over Volny is not in dispute. I don't think anyone will dispute that Volny is a better ST player than Messam, since Messam doesn't play teams. So if Volny is not likely to touch the ball as a RB more than twice a game all season (rewarding the worker bees) but plays 18 snaps a game on teams, which Messam can't replace, and Messam is unlikely to get any more snaps at RB because our DI is outright better, then yeah, Messam is a waste of a roster spot. If his last name was Etienne you'd all be losing your minds about how big a waste of a roster spot he would be. Unless they want to DI a guy like aaron woods for returner and still have a good RB on the roster OShea is saying he's using one of those spots on a backup RB. That's why upgrading Volny to Messam is irrelevant. It accomplishes nothing. Cotton needs a rest, Ford goes in. Not Volny. Looks like our NI DB's will be playing a ton then, assuming a DI is used on a returner, one will for sure be used on Zach Anderson, one on Kuale/Wild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 With O'Shea I see us starting one of Ford or Cotton and DI'ing the other one as a "returner"Seems pretty straightforward, they will be using a DI spot for the backup RB, who will get some amount of returner duty. Perhaps all. I don't think anyone will dispute that 2011 Messam is a better RB than Volny. Who knows what he is now. He can't hold a job despite being a potential ratio-breaker, so he's probably not really a ratio-breaker anymore. However, for the sake of argument, let's say his superiority over Volny is not in dispute. I don't think anyone will dispute that Volny is a better ST player than Messam, since Messam doesn't play teams. So if Volny is not likely to touch the ball as a RB more than twice a game all season (rewarding the worker bees) but plays 18 snaps a game on teams, which Messam can't replace, and Messam is unlikely to get any more snaps at RB because our DI is outright better, then yeah, Messam is a waste of a roster spot. If his last name was Etienne you'd all be losing your minds about how big a waste of a roster spot he would be. Unless they want to DI a guy like aaron woods for returner and still have a good RB on the roster You know there's one more DI spot on the roster this year, right? It's up to 4. OShea is saying he's using one of those spots on a backup RB. That's why upgrading Volny to Messam is irrelevant. It accomplishes nothing. Cotton needs a rest, Ford goes in. Not Volny. Messam being better than Volny doesn't help the Bombers get better, unless he can play Oline, Dline, LB. Something like that. I'm all about upgrades but there has to be a point. OShea is telling you there is no point. Interesting... I was assuming we were using a DI on DB, LB, DL and Returner. If that returner is Aaron Woods, than we'll need a good Canuck and back up RB. Messam could fit that bill IMO... then we could pull our other import off the reserve for the following game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbrg Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Looks like our NI DB's will be playing a ton then, assuming a DI is used on a returner, one will for sure be used on Zach Anderson, one on Kuale/Wild. I think Bucknor will be getting a ton of snaps. A DI will be used on a returner, that just won't be his only role. There won't be a Keith Stokes on the team this year. The 3 or 4 guys who will do returns this year will all play lots of snaps on offence and defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearpants Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 2 big things here... if Messam wasn't Canadian, no one would care... if we weren't so desperate for NI talent, no one would care... I find it hard to believe we're not at least looking into him, but I'm not blown away about the thought of not signing him... Jaxon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelownabomberfan Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Jerry Rice Jr., whose father played receiver in the NFL with San Francisco, was at practice on Monday and received a tryout following the team’s workout. As of Monday night, Popp hadn’t determined his status yet. Popp must wait to receive medical reports on injured players before making a decision on the young receiver. At this point of camp, a player can’t be added to the roster without another player being deleted or injured. Does Popp only scout the progeny of famous NFL receivers? If JR jr makes the team then that's two NFL legends with sons on the Als. A few years ago they had Walter Payton's kid at running back. Does Randy Moss or Michael Irvin have any kids? Marvin Harrison? Come on down to Montreal for a try out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBURGESS Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 We have a huge NI problem, yet we don't even look at the 2 best NI's to come available in the last couple of weeks? That's a problem IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blitzmore Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 We have a huge NI problem, yet we don't even look at the 2 best NI's to come available in the last couple of weeks? That's a problem IMHO. Not really...appears to me the coaches know what they want to do...perhaps they should be given a chance to do that! Noeller 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noeller Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Just so tired of people thinking they know more than the paid/trained professionals. Let 'em do their job... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelownabomberfan Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 We have a huge NI problem, yet we don't even look at the 2 best NI's to come available in the last couple of weeks? That's a problem IMHO. who's the other one? And if Messam is one of the "best" NI's to come available then the problem is really with the depth of NI talent in this league, as he ain't no great shakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbrg Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 If Cotton goes down in a game and Messam is his backup, that is not a waste of a roster spot. Nope, that is not a waste of a roster spot. That is also not what OShea is talking about. Whatever NI RB is on our roster is going to be our 3rd string RB. Not 2nd. I know we are fixated on the fact that Volny is irreplaceable on STs, but honestly, Eisho, Briggs or Jones will simply fill his role... and probably will anyway. Nope, no one is fixated on Volny's special teams play. Volny is completely replaceable. By another 3rd string RB who plays special teams. Which isn't Messam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd Posted June 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Messam is the best NI RB to come available. Laurent was the best NI DT on the market. Lots of guys acting like its easy to just pickup NI talent in this league... that's cool, just don't complain when the ratio kills us this year. TBURGESS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbrg Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 We have a huge NI problem, yet we don't even look at the 2 best NI's to come available in the last couple of weeks? That's a problem IMHO. The only NI problem-relief that Messam provides is freeing up a DI spot. He's not a starter anymore. He doesn't solve the ratio problem. He's a backup, and one who doesn't play special teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbrg Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Messam is the best NI RB to come available. Laurent was the best NI DT on the market. Stating two things that are true does not connect any dots - how would adding Messam help us? Here is the only situation where Messam helps us - both our starting RB and our DI backup RB get injured in the same game. It has happened in Bomber history. In Toronto, 2012, if I recall correctly. We lost both our first and second string QB and our first and second string RB in the same game - lost by a field goal. Nonetheless, it's pretty rare. Once in...ever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelownabomberfan Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Messam is the best NI RB to come available. Laurent was the best NI DT on the market. Lots of guys acting like its easy to just pickup NI talent in this league... that's cool, just don't complain when the ratio kills us this year. And don't complain when Bilikudi and Muamba come back to Canada this year either. Then we go from suck to blow on the ratio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd Posted June 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Messam is the best NI RB to come available. Laurent was the best NI DT on the market. Lots of guys acting like its easy to just pickup NI talent in this league... that's cool, just don't complain when the ratio kills us this year. And don't complain when Bilikudi and Muamba come back to Canada this year either. Then we go from suck to blow on the ratio. Pretty sure I won't complain about that. I also wouldn't base my entire season on it either. Anyway, I'm tired of arguing about Messam... probably damaged goods anyway, just dont see the sense of not even taking a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbrg Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Let me do some dot connecting for you. How many decisions has OShea made that revolve around giving Willy the best possible chance to succeed? He has explored the idea of having 3 imports on the Oline. He is apparently using a DI spot on the RB position. He is setting up his first time starting QB to have as much time as possible to find receivers and as little time as possible on his back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd Posted June 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Let me do some dot connecting for you. How many decisions has OShea made that revolve around giving Willy the best possible chance to succeed? He has explored the idea of having 3 imports on the Oline. He is apparently using a DI spot on the RB position. He is setting up his first time starting QB to have as much time as possible to find receivers and as little time as possible on his back. Glad you've got it all figured out. Three import OL and two import running backs sounds great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.O.A.B. Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Let me do some dot connecting for you. How many decisions has OShea made that revolve around giving Willy the best possible chance to succeed? He has explored the idea of having 3 imports on the Oline. He is apparently using a DI spot on the RB position. He is setting up his first time starting QB to have as much time as possible to find receivers and as little time as possible on his back. Glad you've got it all figured out. Three import OL and two import running backs sounds great. It could be doable but I think it will make the D more weaker since we have to start 3 NATL on D - possibly DT Thomas, CB Bucknor and S Alexander. LG Greaves, C Morley, SB Watson and WR Kohlert on O. RB will be the Returner too. or instead of slotting a NATL on S, Rotate Feoli-Gudino to whomever the 3rd INTL Receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbrg Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 I'm merely finding the reasoning behind what OShea has been doing. He has explored various options on offence trying to find out what will give Willy the best chance to succeed. Much like putting lines between each point will hopefully make it easier to process. I have no opposition to Messam being a Bomber. Of course he's a better RB than Volny. Using OShea's reasoning of what will give Willy the best chance to succeed, I can see why he thinks Messam will add no value. You can continue to ignore reasoning. I suspect you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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