iso_55 Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 I guess this debate will rage until we see how this group of players do with Maurice an NHL veteran head coach. We'll see if it is talent or coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Noel was simply over his head, the guy can be a decent AHL coach and probably a solid assistant coach in the NHL, but the guy simply wouldn't be able to motivate a bunch of young guys. The move was inevitable and maybe this will shake things up for the rest of the year. The team is moving in the right direction and hopefully next year they can hire a coach who can actually pull the team up. It's to bad they couldn't of had Vigneault.... Can you honestly say that this Jets roster is capable of much more than they are doing though? Look at the rest of the western conference and honestly see where the Jets roster stacks up, it's not favourable. The answer is yes... how can they beat teams like Colorado and then simply roll over against crap teams like Florida and Buffalo. This team if properly coached should of had at least 5 - 10 more wins. So many gimmies they gave away. I don't think this team could compete for the Cup by any means... but we definitely are way below what we should be at. Edmonton has beaten good teams too, so has Calgary doesn't mean anything. 82 games is a long time teams win games they shouldn't and lose games they should win all the time, what mattes is what you do over the long haul and the Jets roster is more similar to Edmonton or Calgary than it is the actual good teams. The Jets roster is really unimpressive. They have one legit offensively talented guy on the team and that's Kane, the rest are guys better suited to a 2nd line role at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweep the leg Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Noel was simply over his head, the guy can be a decent AHL coach and probably a solid assistant coach in the NHL, but the guy simply wouldn't be able to motivate a bunch of young guys. The move was inevitable and maybe this will shake things up for the rest of the year. If you don't think he can motivate young guys, what would make him a decent AHL coach? It would be even more important there. We have average talent, very little depth, & near the bottom of the league goaltending. That's a tough situation for any coach to win in. To make it even worse, the average talent we have doesn't seem to have a great work ethic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 I don't think our top end talent is that far off, to be honest. Ladd/Little/Wheeler is a better line than people give them credit for and Scheifele/Kane/Frolik are meshing well enough. It's the bottom six (five, since I'm going to cut Olli Jokinen a break) that are junk and our defense just struggles with consistency from game to game. Oh and then obviously the goaltending. Pavelec is just not a good NHL caliber goaltender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
road griller Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 The good news is there are plenty of tickets floating around so you can go to any game for face value or a little less. The bad news is you have to pay big bucks to watch these slackers. Talent is one thing but the effort this bunch puts out is pathetic, they should not need motivation at this level imo. But I guess these divas do.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 The D has been awful. And it's not Pavs. It would be nice if he stole games but you cant rely on that. He *has* been inconsistant but the D is as much if not more to blame than Pavs. Buff has been dreadful and *should* be traded (I never thought I'd feel that way but its true). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 I don't think our top end talent is that far off, to be honest. Ladd/Little/Wheeler is a better line than people give them credit for and Scheifele/Kane/Frolik are meshing well enough. It's the bottom six (five, since I'm going to cut Olli Jokinen a break) that are junk and our defense just struggles with consistency from game to game. Oh and then obviously the goaltending. Pavelec is just not a good NHL caliber goaltender. you're wrong. Ladd/Little/Wheeler is a 2nd line at best. Scheifele is a young player and as a result still prone to inconsistency, Frolik is a 2nd liner at best and Kane is the only guy who can be a legit first liner, but again still a young player and not elite so prone to some inconsistency. Then the bottom 6 really is lacking. Their defense has got some pretty good potential but again, Trouba is a rookie so you can't rightly expect him to be doing too much, Byfuglien has always and will always be inconsistent in his effort level, Enstrom is good but more offensive minded than defensive, Bogosian is servicable on a top pair but not much more than that and other than that very uninspiring. Seriously compare it to other western teams and you really start to see how lacking it is. iso_55 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 I don't think our top end talent is that far off, to be honest. Ladd/Little/Wheeler is a better line than people give them credit for and Scheifele/Kane/Frolik are meshing well enough. It's the bottom six (five, since I'm going to cut Olli Jokinen a break) that are junk and our defense just struggles with consistency from game to game. Oh and then obviously the goaltending. Pavelec is just not a good NHL caliber goaltender. you're wrong. Ladd/Little/Wheeler is a 2nd line at best. Scheifele is a young player and as a result still prone to inconsistency, Frolik is a 2nd liner at best and Kane is the only guy who can be a legit first liner, but again still a young player and not elite so prone to some inconsistency. Then the bottom 6 really is lacking. Their defense has got some pretty good potential but again, Trouba is a rookie so you can't rightly expect him to be doing too much, Byfuglien has always and will always be inconsistent in his effort level, Enstrom is good but more offensive minded than defensive, Bogosian is servicable on a top pair but not much more than that and other than that very uninspiring. Seriously compare it to other western teams and you really start to see how lacking it is. http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2013/8/20/4628136/winnipeg-jets-andrew-ladd-blake-wheeler-bryan-little And yes, I know this focuses on the East. But really, they're not as bad as people try and state. Have they been a bit off this year? To say the least. But I'm willing to see what Maurice does with them. blitzmore 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 I don't think our top end talent is that far off, to be honest. Ladd/Little/Wheeler is a better line than people give them credit for and Scheifele/Kane/Frolik are meshing well enough. It's the bottom six (five, since I'm going to cut Olli Jokinen a break) that are junk and our defense just struggles with consistency from game to game. Oh and then obviously the goaltending. Pavelec is just not a good NHL caliber goaltender. you're wrong. Ladd/Little/Wheeler is a 2nd line at best. Scheifele is a young player and as a result still prone to inconsistency, Frolik is a 2nd liner at best and Kane is the only guy who can be a legit first liner, but again still a young player and not elite so prone to some inconsistency. Then the bottom 6 really is lacking. Their defense has got some pretty good potential but again, Trouba is a rookie so you can't rightly expect him to be doing too much, Byfuglien has always and will always be inconsistent in his effort level, Enstrom is good but more offensive minded than defensive, Bogosian is servicable on a top pair but not much more than that and other than that very uninspiring. Seriously compare it to other western teams and you really start to see how lacking it is. http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2013/8/20/4628136/winnipeg-jets-andrew-ladd-blake-wheeler-bryan-little And yes, I know this focuses on the East. But really, they're not as bad as people try and state. Have they been a bit off this year? To say the least. But I'm willing to see what Maurice does with them. oh yeah cause I'm going to take that piece seriously with a headline like that. That line is a prime example of why Noel wasn't a bad coach, he got a bunch of 2nd liners at best playing better than they should be. Those guys are not a first line. If they are your first line then you're a bad team. Give anyone top line duties they will likely find some points but it doesn't make them more talented than they are. The top end talent is what is lacking in Winnipeg more than anything. Kane is the only guy who has that quality offensive ability on the Jets at this point and even he has his own issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 17s assessment really isn’t that far off. The Jets have been a struggling .500 to below .500 club this year and in previous years. They have made some upgrades this season trading away Antropov and company for Frolik and Setagouchi. Add in that they are in a tougher conference and division, and it wasn’t enough. Tangradi, Peluso, Wright, Ellerby and Pardy should all be in the AHL. It can be argued that Scheifele Kane and Frolik (or Wheeler) are the already the number 1 line on the team this year. The sooner they can cement that and Little / Ladd / Wheeler can become the 2nd line the better shape we will be in. The team isn’t that far off, but they are not there yet. Noel had to go because they were playing well below the level they should be. Win or lose you need to be competitive, and this team had no fight in it. That isn’t talent, that is something else. The team is still a year or two away. Hopefully a new coach can put some fresh perspective in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 I don't think our top end talent is that far off, to be honest. Ladd/Little/Wheeler is a better line than people give them credit for and Scheifele/Kane/Frolik are meshing well enough. It's the bottom six (five, since I'm going to cut Olli Jokinen a break) that are junk and our defense just struggles with consistency from game to game. Oh and then obviously the goaltending. Pavelec is just not a good NHL caliber goaltender. you're wrong. Ladd/Little/Wheeler is a 2nd line at best. Scheifele is a young player and as a result still prone to inconsistency, Frolik is a 2nd liner at best and Kane is the only guy who can be a legit first liner, but again still a young player and not elite so prone to some inconsistency. Then the bottom 6 really is lacking. Their defense has got some pretty good potential but again, Trouba is a rookie so you can't rightly expect him to be doing too much, Byfuglien has always and will always be inconsistent in his effort level, Enstrom is good but more offensive minded than defensive, Bogosian is servicable on a top pair but not much more than that and other than that very uninspiring. Seriously compare it to other western teams and you really start to see how lacking it is. http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2013/8/20/4628136/winnipeg-jets-andrew-ladd-blake-wheeler-bryan-little And yes, I know this focuses on the East. But really, they're not as bad as people try and state. Have they been a bit off this year? To say the least. But I'm willing to see what Maurice does with them. oh yeah cause I'm going to take that piece seriously with a headline like that. That line is a prime example of why Noel wasn't a bad coach, he got a bunch of 2nd liners at best playing better than they should be. Those guys are not a first line. If they are your first line then you're a bad team. Give anyone top line duties they will likely find some points but it doesn't make them more talented than they are. The top end talent is what is lacking in Winnipeg more than anything. Kane is the only guy who has that quality offensive ability on the Jets at this point and even he has his own issues. If you mean top six forward talent, I'd strongly disagree. The goaltending, bottom six and top end defensive talent are lacking far more than our top six. If that's not what you meant, disregard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noeller Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 the Jets have a solid NHL -level 2nd line in Scheiffle/Kane/Frolik, and Little/Ladd/Wheeler is a serviceable 2nd Line and pretty good 3rd Line. They do not have a legit top line right now. On D, Enstrom/Trouba is a serviceable top pairing, but they're not really legit yet...too young. Give it a couple years, and they'll be there. Bogo/?? is alright as a 2nd pairing, tho ZB is massively overrated based on his draft year. As for Pavelec, I think the guy is a lot better than people give him credit for. He gets so little help in front of him, it's a tough slog night in and night out. They just don't play well in front of him. Bottom line, Jets fans really tend to overrate the talent level on this team. Noel got far more out of guys like Ladd (ppg...seriously??!), Little and Wheeler than anyone has any right to. If people are patient and they let the drafting take its course, then things will get better. Need to remember that you basically inherited an expansion team. It was a complete shambles, save for a couple pieces, so it's going to take a long time to build this thing up to where it needs to be in order to be competitive. Going from the abhorrent SouthLeast Division to the ultra-competitive West/Central didn't help people's understanding of the situation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweep the leg Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 the Jets have a solid NHL -level 2nd line in Scheiffle/Kane/Frolik, and Little/Ladd/Wheeler is a serviceable 2nd Line and pretty good 3rd Line. They do not have a legit top line right now. On D, Enstrom/Trouba is a serviceable top pairing, but they're not really legit yet...too young. Give it a couple years, and they'll be there. Bogo/?? is alright as a 2nd pairing, tho ZB is massively overrated based on his draft year. As for Pavelec, I think the guy is a lot better than people give him credit for. He gets so little help in front of him, it's a tough slog night in and night out. They just don't play well in front of him. Bottom line, Jets fans really tend to overrate the talent level on this team. Noel got far more out of guys like Ladd (ppg...seriously??!), Little and Wheeler than anyone has any right to. If people are patient and they let the drafting take its course, then things will get better. Need to remember that you basically inherited an expansion team. It was a complete shambles, save for a couple pieces, so it's going to take a long time to build this thing up to where it needs to be in order to be competitive. Going from the abhorrent SouthLeast Division to the ultra-competitive West/Central didn't help people's understanding of the situation... Little put up 30 goals under a different coach and Ladd, with the exception of his great season last year, has been fairly consistent with his point production going back to his Chicago days. It's not like they were bums before Noel got them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 The Jets have a pretty good middle part of a competitive roster, what they don't have are the top end players and they don't have much for depth. When you play in the west you can't get by with an incomplete roster like that. Noeller 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 The Jets have a pretty good middle part of a competitive roster, what they don't have are the top end players and they don't have much for depth. When you play in the west you can't get by with an incomplete roster like that. http://coyotes.nhl.com/club/roster.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noeller Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Really need St John's to start spitting more guys up (hopefully soon...) to provide depth, and then let the drafting provide the top end talent. Tanking this year would be real good for them, to give 'em a shot at a legit superstar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Tanking next year would be better as it is a weak draft this year. And it will be the Connor McDavid sweepstakes. I'll still take a competitive team next year though. Somehow, McDavid is bound to end up in Edmonton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 I don't think our top end talent is that far off, to be honest. Ladd/Little/Wheeler is a better line than people give them credit for and Scheifele/Kane/Frolik are meshing well enough. It's the bottom six (five, since I'm going to cut Olli Jokinen a break) that are junk and our defense just struggles with consistency from game to game. Oh and then obviously the goaltending. Pavelec is just not a good NHL caliber goaltender. you're wrong. Ladd/Little/Wheeler is a 2nd line at best. Scheifele is a young player and as a result still prone to inconsistency, Frolik is a 2nd liner at best and Kane is the only guy who can be a legit first liner, but again still a young player and not elite so prone to some inconsistency. Then the bottom 6 really is lacking. Their defense has got some pretty good potential but again, Trouba is a rookie so you can't rightly expect him to be doing too much, Byfuglien has always and will always be inconsistent in his effort level, Enstrom is good but more offensive minded than defensive, Bogosian is servicable on a top pair but not much more than that and other than that very uninspiring. Seriously compare it to other western teams and you really start to see how lacking it is. Nailed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 The Jets have a pretty good middle part of a competitive roster, what they don't have are the top end players and they don't have much for depth. When you play in the west you can't get by with an incomplete roster like that. http://coyotes.nhl.com/club/roster.htm When the Jets get some comparable D and goaltending call me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweep the leg Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 The Jets have a pretty good middle part of a competitive roster, what they don't have are the top end players and they don't have much for depth. When you play in the west you can't get by with an incomplete roster like that. http://coyotes.nhl.com/club/roster.htm When the Jets get some comparable D and goaltending call me. I'd take the Coyotes D corps. Their goaltending is pretty suspect though. Mike Smith had one great season that's been surrounded by a lot of mediocrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 I lulz at the one who thinks Evander Kane is the only threat on offense... the guy has potential that's for sure but I'm not impressed with his 25 points and his 14 goals on a bazillion shots. When he learns how to pass then he might become a star. Wheeler is probably our best guy on offense and he's above average that's for sure. Pavs is definitely stinking it up, he definitely is making more money then he should based on his play. How can Montoya have a winning record and much better stats then him? I definitely expect the team to respond better with Maurice, he *should* have much more respect from the players and in theory they should play harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Really need St John's to start spitting more guys up (hopefully soon...) to provide depth, and then let the drafting provide the top end talent. Tanking this year would be real good for them, to give 'em a shot at a legit superstar. St John's does not have anyone that can improve this club, the only guys not playing that could be of some help would be Redmond and Postma and maybe Pasquale could replace Pavs down the road if this trend continues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 I lulz at the one who thinks Evander Kane is the only threat on offense... That's not what anyone said, what we're saying is he's the only guy with the high end offensive skill. If you really think Wheeler is your best that's an all kinds of damning statement about the offence on the Jets and really goes to back up what we're saying about a serious lack of talent on the Jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Wheeler is a fine first line right wing. We need a legit #1 centre, some depth at left wing, and a better goalie. I'm not a Kane fan, he will never be a first line winger on a good team. His offensive awareness is basically non existent, he is terrible at maintaining possession and is useless on the PP. He's got good speed and a great shot which makes him a useful second line winger but that's all he'll ever be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Wheeler is a fine first line right wing. maybe if there's a top teir centre and left wing to play with but the guy is a 2nd liner on his own. If Wheeler wasn't 6'5 no one would even think twice about him. Dime a dozen offensive skill there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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