3 turds plus cranky honker don’t say roster management edition

[Booch]

1 minute ago, GCn20 said:

I expect that Person will get more reps as well. As a rookie he played himself into the lineup quite quickly I think. If you are suggesting that we didn't move him in quick enough as a rookie I disagree.

he has the ost takent and best skill set of any end we have....rookie or not...shouldnt matter...end is on the easiest spots to integrate in fresh

Garbutt and Fox have also been more than good in Hamilton....

[GCn20]

1 minute ago, Booch said:

he has the ost takent and best skill set of any end we have....rookie or not...shouldnt matter...end is on the easiest spots to integrate in fresh

Garbutt and Fox have also been more than good in Hamilton....

No they haven't. They have done zero there as well. At best these guys are lower end IMPs.

Edited 22 hours ago by GCn20

[Booch]

Just now, GCn20 said:

Adams has been below average at best and the stats are accurate.

you just like to defend Osh....and thts fine....but yhou are a bit misguided in who is adding value to the dline, and who is actually shown ability.....and yoyu cant determine that we had crap in camp just cause Osh cut them....I have my doubts he has an actual good eye for talent....and thats been in his whole 11+ yrs here too...not just the last 2...3 yrs

[GCn20]

3 minutes ago, Booch said:

you just like to defend Osh....and thts fine....but yhou are a bit misguided in who is adding value to the dline, and who is actually shown ability.....and yoyu cant determine that we had crap in camp just cause Osh cut them....I have my doubts he has an actual good eye for talent....and thats been in his whole 11+ yrs here too...not just the last 2...3 yrs

How sad that Osh doesn't have the keen eye for talent that you have. Just imagine a DL of Garbutt, Fox, Adams, and Person....we would be the envy of the league.

Edited 22 hours ago by GCn20

[Booch]

1 minute ago, GCn20 said:

No they haven't. They have done zero there as well. At best these guys are lower end IMPs.

thats accordoing to you??...from all accounts I have heard...and its not from a fan site....it's opposite of what you are declaring....but opinions vary here...and thats fine....

Just now, GCn20 said:

How sad that Osh doesn't have the keen eye for talent that you have.

yeah..it is kinda sad

[sweep the leg]

4 minutes ago, Booch said:

thats accordoing to you??...from all accounts I have heard...and its not from a fan site....it's opposite of what you are declaring....but opinions vary here...and thats fine....

They’re the definition of average, and that’s coming from my sources.

[Booch]

Just now, sweep the leg said:

They’re the definition of average, and that’s coming from my sources.

AND half of dline roster is below average.....so guess that woulda kept us better...mind you its the Canadian component that ails us the most

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

No they haven't. They have done zero there as well. At best these guys are lower end IMPs.

Fox has been the best run-stopping DT in the league. He and Sayles have worked extremely well together. 

 

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

Adams has been below average at best and the stats are accurate. He is averaging just short of 30 snaps a game.

How many pressures does he have and has he generated? Adams has been our best DL by far outside of person last game. 

Lawson has underperformed. He hasn't looked 100% yet this year. Adams requires lots of polish still but he's after it on every snap and is responsible for creating or providing half our pressures. 

[Bigblue204]

I thought Lawson has been great push up the middle. 

[GCn20]

14 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Fox has been the best run-stopping DT in the league. He and Sayles have worked extremely well together. 

 

How many pressures does he have and has he generated? Adams has been our best DL by far outside of person last game. 

Lawson has underperformed. He hasn't looked 100% yet this year. Adams requires lots of polish still but he's after it on every snap and is responsible for creating or providing half our pressures. 

Adams may be playing the best out of a well below average DL interior for sure. That's not the point I am trying to make. Watching Sayles make a dud like Fox look good is what our DL should look like if we were properly recruiting talent around here. Look, Garbutt, Fox, Adams etc may be better than Thomas or Lawson, not arguing that, but they are all substandard. If we are going to flip ratio to get an IMP snaps the Bombers need to bring some guys in that actually move the needle when they get in. This is no longer a problem of who the best is on our roster, it's a problem of none of our guys measuring up. That is a far bigger problem and one that the GM needs to correct.

Edited 21 hours ago by GCn20

[wbbfan]

1 minute ago, Bigblue204 said:

I thought Lawson has been great push up the middle. 

He hasn't had the consistent surge he had prior to his injury, and he seems to be blowing up with more than a few reps in a row. I'm optimistic he will get to where he needs to be, but I would've hoped he'd be where he is now, at the start of the season. In run plays he hasn't been able to disrupt gaps as much as he has and should. In the pass game, when he's rested, he can drive his man into the qb, but he isn't able to flatten guys with his bull rush so far.

 But we are paying him top dollar, and I don't think he could take the top volume of snaps or provide what he did in the past. 

Perhaps korny sitting is a good sign that his cardio is getting back where it needs to be. 

ACL recoveries always take longer for the explosivity to come back, especially for a 300lb Dt. 

[Booch]

Just now, GCn20 said:

Adams may be playing the best out of a well below average DL interior for sure. That's not the point I am trying to make. Watching Sayles make a dud like Fox look good is what our DL should look like if we were properly evaluating talent around here. Look, Garbutt, Fox, Adams etc may be better than Thomas or Lawson, not arguing that, but they are all substandard. If we are going to flip ratio to get an IMP snaps the Bombers need to bring some guys in that actually move the needle when they get in.

to be honest Fox looked good in B.C too....but you hit nail on the head....the dline works in unison and just 1 or 2 crap guys getting moocho reps can make the others look inferior...

Part of our problem is not recruiting legit studs...or targeting FA proven studs because we had this belief that for most part what we had in the middle was good...and clearly a few of them are not...and it impacts the others who are

That being said...we are doing some mixing and matching and moving guys around...off roster...and on...and this is good and well done staff....see..I will applaud and give props where and when due...as well as call out things too which look to be hindering us

Now......let's work on the coaching aspect with what's the best Defensive roster we have put out there this yr....use them in the best possible way and see how that shakes out...and show the ability to adjust and make changes on the fly

On offence.....fingers crossed there...not sure what the plan is gonna be but I hope Jackson has had a lot of input

[17to85]

I'd take a DL of garbutt, fox, adams and person over what we have now... without question. 

Thomas at his best was a rotational piece and his best is long gone, Jefferson used to be one of the very best but he no longer is, vaughters is fine and Lawson is fine but they're not exactly game breakers either. 

This idea that oshea is just the beat at building a roster is laughable. Not to say Booch has it all right or anything like that, but oshea has some blindspots when it comes to roster usage. That's been demonstrated for over a decade now.

[GCn20]

1 minute ago, Booch said:

to be honest Fox looked good in B.C too....but you hit nail on the head....the dline works in unison and just 1 or 2 crap guys getting moocho reps can make the others look inferior...

Part of our problem is not recruiting legit studs...or targeting FA proven studs because we had this belief that for most part what we had in the middle was good...and clearly a few of them are not...and it impacts the others who are

That being said...we are doing some mixing and matching and moving guys around...off roster...and on...and this is good and well done staff....see..I will applaud and give props where and when due...as well as call out things too which look to be hindering us

Now......let's work on the coaching aspect with what's the best Defensive roster we have put out there this yr....use them in the best possible way and see how that shakes out...and show the ability to adjust and make changes on the fly

On offence.....fingers crossed there...not sure what the plan is gonna be but I hope Jackson has had a lot of input

Offence is a mess. I don't have much hope with our current roster. Defence can be moderately fixed through better coaching but an influx of talent is needed there as well. Bridges to the PR should have been done 3 games ago.

[17to85]

2 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Bridges to the PR should have been done 3 games ago.

How dare you question professional coaches and their ability to judge talent.

[Booch]

Just now, GCn20 said:

Offence is a mess. I don't have much hope with our current roster. Defence can be moderately fixed through better coaching but an influx of talent is needed there as well. Bridges to the PR should have been done 3 games ago.

Probably from the get go really

I think with Griffin....J.Jones and the best of the others we could have a really good LB crew but we def need to be constantly pounding the pavement for impact guys for the front 7 until we find it

The DB's I think will be fine once they sort it out who is best where....but again....we should always be bringing guys in for looks...and or sniffing around othe PR's or who may be apt to trade

[GCn20]

32 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

How dare you question professional coaches and their ability to judge talent.

Hindsight is always 20/20. I have no issue with the criticism of a roster after the fact. I don't have an issue with those criticizing JT or others. What I have a problem with is people criticizing depth charts and rosters before the actual game is played or favoring players who have not demonstrated in any way that they would be an improvement over the status quo.

31 minutes ago, Booch said:

Probably from the get go really

I think with Griffin....J.Jones and the best of the others we could have a really good LB crew but we def need to be constantly pounding the pavement for impact guys for the front 7 until we find it

The DB's I think will be fine once they sort it out who is best where....but again....we should always be bringing guys in for looks...and or sniffing around othe PR's or who may be apt to trade

My issue is that our front 7 is the worst in the league by a country mile really and we can grouse about who should be playing and how often but it won't really move the needle much. We need an influx of talent, our roster as a whole on the front 7 is not good enough. Our GM needs to step up in a big way right now.

Edited 20 hours ago by GCn20

[Tracker]

2 hours ago, GCn20 said:

2 hours ago, GCn20 said:

I agree with some of that. Our guys in house are not going to fix anything. Adams has had more reps than JT and done absolutely zero with them. Scrap heaping and air lifting isn't my favorite way to build a team because it shows your offseason was a bust, but a GM needs to do this once in a while when it is apparent that it needs to happen. So far bupkus.

Garbutt, Fox, and now Adams had ample time to show their worth. They failed to do so. Are there some guys we ripen on the vine too long....maybe, but that is not the problem with our DL right now. Guys need to grab the job away through their play and we haven't seen that at any position for a couple of years now. Losing jobs through injury? No one has made a case for that.

Exactly right. We can criticize our NAT guys, but we sure don't have the IMPs to make a noticeable difference if we were to change that up. Our DL is a mess and it doesn't predicate at all on how many reps Jake Thomas is getting. That is a symptom of the problem not the cause.

Vaughters has underperformed his contract as well. RIght now we are not getting reliable play from anyone on our DL and a good portion of our secondary.

Exactly. The problem isn't that we are sitting massively talented players and refusing to play them. The problem is we lack talent across the board on the DL.

Disagree. Damned few players walk onto the field for the first time and dominate. Most need time to get up to speed and learn to mesh with the other players and getting a few reps does not accomplish that.

[Booch]

24 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Hindsight is always 20/20. I have no issue with the criticism of a roster after the fact. I don't have an issue with those criticizing JT or others. What I have a problem with is people criticizing depth charts and rosters before the actual game is played or favoring players who have not demonstrated in any way that they would be an improvement over the status quo.

My issue is that our front 7 is the worst in the league by a country mile really and we can grouse about who should be playing and how often but it won't really move the needle much. We need an influx of talent, our roster as a whole on the front 7 is not good enough. Our GM needs to step up in a big way right now.

if what's being used aint doing the job....intelligence says try  a different config....considering we told they all starter material...and if that's not better....get rid of them piece by piece until they actually play well....we dont do that...but we may be seeing that now to a certain degree....so I consider that progress....now the part about coaching them up effectively....we dont know who is better....cause we havnt tried anyone really other than Person getting on and it actually made us better...made WJ and Vaughters better too...so in essence we agree....But Right now most the blame has to be shouldered by Osh as he picked his roster...If the other's now getting a chance suck as bad...or worse...then yup..Walters better step shitup

[Tracker]

27 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Hindsight is always 20/20. I have no issue with the criticism of a roster after the fact. I don't have an issue with those criticizing JT or others. What I have a problem with is people criticizing depth charts and rosters before the actual game is played or favoring players who have not demonstrated in any way that they would be an improvement over the status quo.

My issue is that our front 7 is the worst in the league by a country mile really and we can grouse about who should be playing and how often but it won't really move the needle much. We need an influx of talent, our roster as a whole on the front 7 is not good enough. Our GM needs to step up in a big way right now.

Agree that collectively our whole defence has been sub-par with only 2 or 3 consistently solid.

[Booch]

12 minutes ago, Tracker said:

Agree that collectively our whole defence has been sub-par with only 2 or 3 consistently solid.

with 7 canadians on offence...why even have a Canadian on field for defense every snap?...

[17to85]

51 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Hindsight is always 20/20. I have no issue with the criticism of a roster after the fact. I don't have an issue with those criticizing JT or others. What I have a problem with is people criticizing depth charts and rosters before the actual game is played or favoring players who have not demonstrated in any way that they would be an improvement over the status quo.

But people said before even seeing it shake out that Bridges was gonna be a bad choice... no hindsight required. What makes you think people can't make similar judgements at other positions? And that's exactly what coaches and gms get paid to do. So why do ours resist making these obvious changes? 1/3rd of the season to make changes people here said should happen on day 1... not a great look.

[GCn20]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

But people said before even seeing it shake out that Bridges was gonna be a bad choice... no hindsight required. What makes you think people can't make similar judgements at other positions? And that's exactly what coaches and gms get paid to do. So why do ours resist making these obvious changes? 1/3rd of the season to make changes people here said should happen on day 1... not a great look.

Yep not a great look at all.  Our GM needs to get to work.

2 hours ago, Booch said:

if what's being used aint doing the job....intelligence says try  a different config....considering we told they all starter material...and if that's not better....get rid of them piece by piece until they actually play well....we dont do that...but we may be seeing that now to a certain degree....so I consider that progress....now the part about coaching them up effectively....we dont know who is better....cause we havnt tried anyone really other than Person getting on and it actually made us better...made WJ and Vaughters better too...so in essence we agree....But Right now most the blame has to be shouldered by Osh as he picked his roster...If the other's now getting a chance suck as bad...or worse...then yup..Walters better step shitup

That's fair. I just don't see the talent we are leaving off the field, or at least not enough of it to make a difference and change us into a Grey Cup team. We are nowhere near that right now no matter who we dress and where. That's on the GM and I agree is being made worse by the coaches.

My argument that dissing coaches when we are winning is not right and I stand by that. When it starts creating losses you damn skippy I want better coaching and GMing. The only metric I judge a Coach or GM on is wins and losses because everyone has their formula that we may not understand to get the wins. However, when losses pile up because of your methods, you need to answer that bell. Right now I think Walters is our biggest problem, but if Miller came down from on high and decided to clean house tomorrow I'm OK with that as long as it rebounds our season.

Edited 18 hours ago by GCn20

[17to85]

So you're just shifting all the blame onto the gm... where will you shift it if the changes improve things? Because all these guys being moved about are already in house.

What will it take for you to admit that the coaches are part of the problem in  talent identification and use?

It's ok, Mike oshea is rightly going to be remembered as an absolute ******* legend as a bomber coach and first ballot bomber hall of gamer and probably a statue at some point... but we can still point out his problems in the meantime.

[GCn20]

44 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

So you're just shifting all the blame onto the gm... where will you shift it if the changes improve things? Because all these guys being moved about are already in house.

What will it take for you to admit that the coaches are part of the problem in  talent identification and use?

It's ok, Mike oshea is rightly going to be remembered as an absolute ******* legend as a bomber coach and first ballot bomber hall of gamer and probably a statue at some point... but we can still point out his problems in the meantime.

The coaches can use our roster better for sure. Never said otherwise. What I don't agree with is this notion that we are sitting all stars in favor of scrubs. That's fantasy-land. Our depth chart is not good and that is on the GM. Our usage of the roster is on MOS for sure, would we be a first place team if he did better? Nope....the talent is not there. Therefore, it's not blame shifting at all, it's correctly identifying what our true problem is....lack of talent. There isn't a bunch of roster moves that gets us back to the beast of the West. That's the sad reality of the situation. Walters needs to get to work. If we had allstars waiting on the bench you would have a point but we don't, they all left because Walters shat the bed in the offseason.

Edited 17 hours ago by GCn20