saskbluefan Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Dickenson. Hot shot coordinator who's never been a head coach. Burke. Hot shot coordinator who's never been an head coach. Lapolice. Hot shot coordinator who's never been a head coach. Kelly. Hot shot former coodinator who's never been a head coach in any real of relevant sense anyway. Berry. Hot shot coodinator who's never been a head coach. Why are some of those considered cheaping out while hiring Dickenson would not? People, myself included, are frequently critical of including playing career in the qualifications for coaching or manegment jobs but that seems to have gone off the rails here. If Dickenson had spent the 90's bouncing around in the arena league would there be all this hype about him as the next big thing in coaching who the Bombers just have to go out and get? He's a candidate. Interview him. If he doesn't want to leave his cushy gig move on to the next up and coming and unproven coordinator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuranBoldenRules Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Dickenson won't be leaving Calgary. He's head coach in waiting there, we might be able to match what he's making now, but if we pay him Milanovich or Hufnagel money we won't be able to put a staff together. Not to mention the mess he'd be wading into her vs the stability in Calgary. It doesn't hurt to try to get an interview with him, but like Milanovich in 2010 it is a high probability that Dickenson has no interest. Bullshit. Don't tell me we can't afford him. We've got just as much money as anyone, even if a lot of it's "hush hush" under-the-table stuff. If we've gotta overpay to get the right guy, then they'll do it. I'm certain Miller knows the story, and the mucky-mucks have learned their lesson. They'll target the right guy and make sure he's taken care of. The only way the Football Club can afford a marquee staff is if they are not even going to put up the illusion that they are attempting to meet the obligations on the two loans or if they pull a few hundred thousand out of player salaries and spend at the floor. They don't have as much money as anyone. When there are teams with private owners underwriting $5-$10 million a year in losses and the Bombers have to turn a $4.5 million a year profit to meet the obligations of the stadium loan (after paying back the $10 million loan), they aren't on equal footing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuranBoldenRules Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Dickenson. Hot shot coordinator who's never been a head coach. Burke. Hot shot coordinator who's never been an head coach. Lapolice. Hot shot coordinator who's never been a head coach. Kelly. Hot shot former coodinator who's never been a head coach in any real of relevant sense anyway. Berry. Hot shot coodinator who's never been a head coach. Why are some of those considered cheaping out while hiring Dickenson would not? People, myself included, are frequently critical of including playing career in the qualifications for coaching or manegment jobs but that seems to have gone off the rails here. If Dickenson had spent the 90's bouncing around in the arena league would there be all this hype about him as the next big thing in coaching who the Bombers just have to go out and get? He's a candidate. Interview him. If he doesn't want to leave his cushy gig move on to the next up and coming and unproven coordinator. Good post, if you are willing to ignore all context. Why did everyone know and understand that Milanovich would be a good head coach? Why did everyone understand that the "hotshot" co-ordinators Burke and Marshall would be awful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlue Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Dickenson won't be leaving Calgary. He's head coach in waiting there, we might be able to match what he's making now, but if we pay him Milanovich or Hufnagel money we won't be able to put a staff together. Not to mention the mess he'd be wading into her vs the stability in Calgary. It doesn't hurt to try to get an interview with him, but like Milanovich in 2010 it is a high probability that Dickenson has no intere Waiting for what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweep the leg Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Good post, if you are willing to ignore all context. Why did everyone know and understand that Milanovich would be a good head coach? Why did everyone understand that the "hotshot" co-ordinators Burke and Marshall would be awful? Where was it said that everyone understood Burke would be awful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskbluefan Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Dickenson. Hot shot coordinator who's never been a head coach. Burke. Hot shot coordinator who's never been an head coach. Lapolice. Hot shot coordinator who's never been a head coach. Kelly. Hot shot former coodinator who's never been a head coach in any real of relevant sense anyway. Berry. Hot shot coodinator who's never been a head coach. Why are some of those considered cheaping out while hiring Dickenson would not? People, myself included, are frequently critical of including playing career in the qualifications for coaching or manegment jobs but that seems to have gone off the rails here. If Dickenson had spent the 90's bouncing around in the arena league would there be all this hype about him as the next big thing in coaching who the Bombers just have to go out and get? He's a candidate. Interview him. If he doesn't want to leave his cushy gig move on to the next up and coming and unproven coordinator. Good post, if you are willing to ignore all context. Why did everyone know and understand that Milanovich would be a good head coach? Why did everyone understand that the "hotshot" co-ordinators Burke and Marshall would be awful? With respect, that’s completely revisionist. Check the archives when the Bombers went with Mack instead of the Barker/Milanovich combo. Lots of people doubting Milanovich. Then go back and google some articles about Burke and Marshall before they flamed out as Head Coaches. Lots of love for their prospects. Check out Stubler too. And then check out hotshot coordinators who got NFL head coaching jobs. Lots succeed. Lots don't. And they all look like Dave Dickenson looks now until they get the big chair. The point I was trying to illustrate is not that Dickenson will fail as an HC. Just that if you take away his playing career his resume isn’t that much better than a bunch of guys that have failed as HC’s. I don’t think he’s the obvious choice or that he’s necessarily in position to turn up his nose at the Bomber job. p.s. GC100 Chris Jones beat the ever loving poo out of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Maybe Chris Jones is Bombers HC next season. He wants to be in charge & has been overlooked in the past. The guy is ready. He has had more success than Dave & has been a coordinator longer. Won Grey Cups in Calgary & Toronto as a DC. In Calgary he also assisted in player personnel. He seems like a decisive guy. Certainly more than Burke ever will be. But that's the risk... Hire another guy with no CFL HC experience. It could be a great or terrible decision. Meanwhile in Toronto at the CFL offices there's a guy named Higgins... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan007 Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 I'm with ISO on Higgins. He's top priority. And you gotta spend money to make money. If you cheap out and they don't produce, you'll lose more fanbase. This town needs someone that will razzle dazzle the Bombers into a winning team. We've already taken chances and it hasn't worked. We need a few years of stability before trying that out again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuranBoldenRules Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Dickenson. Hot shot coordinator who's never been a head coach. Burke. Hot shot coordinator who's never been an head coach. Lapolice. Hot shot coordinator who's never been a head coach. Kelly. Hot shot former coodinator who's never been a head coach in any real of relevant sense anyway. Berry. Hot shot coodinator who's never been a head coach. Why are some of those considered cheaping out while hiring Dickenson would not? People, myself included, are frequently critical of including playing career in the qualifications for coaching or manegment jobs but that seems to have gone off the rails here. If Dickenson had spent the 90's bouncing around in the arena league would there be all this hype about him as the next big thing in coaching who the Bombers just have to go out and get? He's a candidate. Interview him. If he doesn't want to leave his cushy gig move on to the next up and coming and unproven coordinator. Good post, if you are willing to ignore all context. Why did everyone know and understand that Milanovich would be a good head coach? Why did everyone understand that the "hotshot" co-ordinators Burke and Marshall would be awful? With respect, that’s completely revisionist. Check the archives when the Bombers went with Mack instead of the Barker/Milanovich combo. Lots of people doubting Milanovich. Then go back and google some articles about Burke and Marshall before they flamed out as Head Coaches. Lots of love for their prospects. Check out Stubler too. And then check out hotshot coordinators who got NFL head coaching jobs. Lots succeed. Lots don't. And they all look like Dave Dickenson looks now until they get the big chair. The point I was trying to illustrate is not that Dickenson will fail as an HC. Just that if you take away his playing career his resume isn’t that much better than a bunch of guys that have failed as HC’s. I don’t think he’s the obvious choice or that he’s necessarily in position to turn up his nose at the Bomber job. p.s. GC100 Chris Jones beat the ever loving poo out of him. You are totally missing the point. Resume matters little when you're looking at a guy making a jump from co-ordinator or other assistant coaching position to head coach. You are actually making that point, yet completely missing it. The context you are missing is leadership and an ability to galvanize a group toward a goal, the ability to manage a team. Everyone in the league knew that Milanovich had it, everyone wanted to interview him and he wasn't selling himself out for just any shot at being a head coach. Everyone knew he'd be a head coach, and a good one. Everyone knew that Burke is a milquetoast personality who is better off in the background, everyone knew that Greg Marshall has no management skils, everyone knows that Doug Berry has trouble developing a productive relationship with his players, everyone knew that Lapolice could break down tape and make the right calls, but that he probably couldn't inspire a lot of confidence and manage a team. The stops on their resume don't fill in these gaps, and those are the differences between very good and great head coaches and crappy ones. The feeling now is that Dickenson fits the Hufnagel-Milanovich mould, Calgary believes in that feeling enough to pay Dickenson more than our head coach to call plays. That Grey Cup has little bearing on Dickenson or Jones going forward as potential head coaches. The Stamps got there with Kevin Glenn, not a surprise that he choked, the better QB won that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelownabomberfan Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Maybe Chris Jones is Bombers HC next season. He wants to be in charge & has been overlooked in the past. The guy is ready. He has had more success than Dave & has been a coordinator longer. Won Grey Cups in Calgary & Toronto as a DC. In Calgary he also assisted in player personnel. He seems like a decisive guy. Certainly more than Burke ever will be. But that's the risk... Hire another guy with no CFL HC experience. It could be a great or terrible decision. Meanwhile in Toronto at the CFL offices there's a guy named Higgins... And Burke two won cups in Montreal as DC. But I hear you on Jones. That guy is a total son of a be-yatch, much like Cal Murphy used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Maybe Chris Jones is Bombers HC next season. He wants to be in charge & has been overlooked in the past. The guy is ready. He has had more success than Dave & has been a coordinator longer. Won Grey Cups in Calgary & Toronto as a DC. In Calgary he also assisted in player personnel. He seems like a decisive guy. Certainly more than Burke ever will be. But that's the risk... Hire another guy with no CFL HC experience. It could be a great or terrible decision. Meanwhile in Toronto at the CFL offices there's a guy named Higgins... And Burke two won cups in Montreal as DC. But I hear you on Jones. That guy is a total son of a be-yatch, much like Cal Murphy used to be. I don't think you'll ever hear Chris Jones say he doesn't understand offense. Not a chance. I don't like Jones because of the way he left Calgary here... But having said that, maybe we need a head coach who is a bit of an SOB. A guy who'd blitz the **** out of a team. A guy who'd win by 50 points if he could. A guy with an attitude which is what Jones has. His personality will rub off on his players to the point where they fear no one. Of course, it'll implode if he doesn't win. Risk vs reward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskbluefan Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Dickenson. Hot shot coordinator who's never been a head coach. Burke. Hot shot coordinator who's never been an head coach. Lapolice. Hot shot coordinator who's never been a head coach. Kelly. Hot shot former coodinator who's never been a head coach in any real of relevant sense anyway. Berry. Hot shot coodinator who's never been a head coach. Why are some of those considered cheaping out while hiring Dickenson would not? People, myself included, are frequently critical of including playing career in the qualifications for coaching or manegment jobs but that seems to have gone off the rails here. If Dickenson had spent the 90's bouncing around in the arena league would there be all this hype about him as the next big thing in coaching who the Bombers just have to go out and get? He's a candidate. Interview him. If he doesn't want to leave his cushy gig move on to the next up and coming and unproven coordinator. Good post, if you are willing to ignore all context. Why did everyone know and understand that Milanovich would be a good head coach? Why did everyone understand that the "hotshot" co-ordinators Burke and Marshall would be awful? With respect, that’s completely revisionist. Check the archives when the Bombers went with Mack instead of the Barker/Milanovich combo. Lots of people doubting Milanovich. Then go back and google some articles about Burke and Marshall before they flamed out as Head Coaches. Lots of love for their prospects. Check out Stubler too. And then check out hotshot coordinators who got NFL head coaching jobs. Lots succeed. Lots don't. And they all look like Dave Dickenson looks now until they get the big chair. The point I was trying to illustrate is not that Dickenson will fail as an HC. Just that if you take away his playing career his resume isn’t that much better than a bunch of guys that have failed as HC’s. I don’t think he’s the obvious choice or that he’s necessarily in position to turn up his nose at the Bomber job. p.s. GC100 Chris Jones beat the ever loving poo out of him. You are totally missing the point. Resume matters little when you're looking at a guy making a jump from co-ordinator or other assistant coaching position to head coach. You are actually making that point, yet completely missing it. The context you are missing is leadership and an ability to galvanize a group toward a goal, the ability to manage a team. Everyone in the league knew that Milanovich had it, everyone wanted to interview him and he wasn't selling himself out for just any shot at being a head coach. Everyone knew he'd be a head coach, and a good one. Everyone knew that Burke is a milquetoast personality who is better off in the background, everyone knew that Greg Marshall has no management skils, everyone knows that Doug Berry has trouble developing a productive relationship with his players, everyone knew that Lapolice could break down tape and make the right calls, but that he probably couldn't inspire a lot of confidence and manage a team. The stops on their resume don't fill in these gaps, and those are the differences between very good and great head coaches and crappy ones. The feeling now is that Dickenson fits the Hufnagel-Milanovich mould, Calgary believes in that feeling enough to pay Dickenson more than our head coach to call plays. That Grey Cup has little bearing on Dickenson or Jones going forward as potential head coaches. The Stamps got there with Kevin Glenn, not a surprise that he choked, the better QB won that game. Sorry but you're missing my point. Everybody didn't know those things. If they did Burke, Marshall and Lapo wouldn't have got those jobs. Don't believe me? Use google. Read things witten when they were hired, not after they were fired. Everybody knows a lot more after the fact. You are right though that we agree on the resume issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Sorry but you're missing my point. Everybody didn't know those things. If they did Burke, Marshall and Lapo wouldn't have got those jobs. Don't believe me? Use google. Read things witten when they were hired, not after they were fired. Everybody knows a lot more after the fact. You are right though that we agree on the resume issue. well Marshall for one was passed over for a ton of jobs before he ever got the head gig, Burke was passed over a bit before getting a job too. No one passed over the guys who did go on to be successful. I'd be skeptical of using Burke and Lapo getting head gigs from a guy who was fired primarily because he sucked the big one at hiring head coaches is much of an endorsement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskbluefan Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Sorry but you're missing my point. Everybody didn't know those things. If they did Burke, Marshall and Lapo wouldn't have got those jobs. Don't believe me? Use google. Read things witten when they were hired, not after they were fired. Everybody knows a lot more after the fact. You are right though that we agree on the resume issue. well Marshall for one was passed over for a ton of jobs before he ever got the head gig, Burke was passed over a bit before getting a job too. No one passed over the guys who did go on to be successful. I'd be skeptical of using Burke and Lapo getting head gigs from a guy who was fired primarily because he sucked the big one at hiring head coaches is much of an endorsement. That's your theory. Mine is the deficiencies of his head coaches were only one reason he was fired. Getting a Joe Mack managed team to the Grey Cup should put Lapo in the Hall of Fame IMO. Luckily there were still a lot of John Murphy guys left on D. You are right those guys were passed over for jobs. As were a lot of succesful coaches. In all sports in all leagues. Anyway, back to the original point. If Walters or who ever replaces him choses someone else over Dickenson I wouldn't call that cheaping out. To me, Dickenson is only one guy you would want to talk to. Just because he's a good X's and O's guy doesn't make him automatic HC material. Because a lot of x's and o's guys haven't worked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebusrankin Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Disagree on us lacking the $, revenue projections with the new stadium have us in the same place as Edmonton and Saskatchewan and ahead of Toronto and Hamilton (call that a mitgation factor on not having a private owner). Now will they do a proper search and hire an experienced candidate like Higgins who'd bring in a quality staff or do they cheap out and give the job to Walters and keep Burke which likely costs them 7500-10000 sts? Noeller 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Luckily there were still a lot of John Murphy guys left on D. There were a bunch of Tamans guys there too but overall I don't think we're any less talented on defense today than we were in 2011, the coaches aren't getting as much out of them as they did back then though. Unless you think it was Hefney Hunt and WIllis that made that D... I think they were part of it but Mack replaced Hunt with a pretty good DE in Hall as well and Willis has his limitations as a player and I think we have adequate replacements for them too. Hefneys game fell off and not like we are lacking in talent at DB, again to me that's a situation where guys are not being put in situations to maximize their talents. Lapo was a guy who coached not to lose, he got a lot more out of players than Burke has but that's a pretty low bar to climb over. Neither one of the coaches that Mack hired were good enough and to me that was the biggest flaw. And I'm not a Dickenson or bust guy here either, I'd love to see him come in here cause I think if anyone can sort of the quarterback and offensive issues on this team he's the guy who can do it, but bottom line I just want to see them turn over every stone and find the right guy who ever it is and pay them what it takes to get them here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 The thought that Burke stays is so offensive as a supporter. Please don't let that happen. rebusrankin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenaline_x Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 wtf does this have to do with Qbs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigseye Posted October 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 In a round about way, hiring the right GM/HC could be the tipping point for QB's to come here, and same QB's because we need more than just a starter, we need depth behind him too. Noeller and rebusrankin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan007 Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 wtf does this have to do with Qbs? HEY! Don't go throwing logic and the original topic into this discussion. Good day sir... ....I SAID GOOD DAY! rebusrankin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenaline_x Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Lol. I was happily reading the thread about qbs and then did a wtf out loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Threads change directions, ebb & flow all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 coaching matters to quarterbacking, it's a natural progression for the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Perfect Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Dickenson won't be leaving Calgary. He's head coach in waiting there, we might be able to match what he's making now, but if we pay him Milanovich or Hufnagel money we won't be able to put a staff together. Not to mention the mess he'd be wading into her vs the stability in Calgary. It doesn't hurt to try to get an interview with him, but like Milanovich in 2010 it is a high probability that Dickenson has no interest. Bullshit. Don't tell me we can't afford him. We've got just as much money as anyone, even if a lot of it's "hush hush" under-the-table stuff. If we've gotta overpay to get the right guy, then they'll do it. I'm certain Miller knows the story, and the mucky-mucks have learned their lesson. They'll target the right guy and make sure he's taken care of. Write Dickenson a blank cheque, I don't care what it costs. Noeller 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 I like Dickenson but I just don't think he's got it in him to play QB anymore Noeller, Logan007 and rebusrankin 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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