Elks at Bombers GDT

[wbbfan]

3 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

I think Tony Jones and Zach Collaros just force fed some posters around here a big old helping of crow

Zach's play cost us a GC, and he's been so putrid in the GCs and playoffs; he has a long way to go before that. 

 He did give me a ton of hope again. I had hope after his preseason play as well, but last week was rough. His start to the game was also rough. He tossed some ducks early last night that had me worried. I'm glad he got it together. I hope he keeps it tight from here on. I am reasonably optimistic that this will continue. 

With Jones, he pretty much did what he always does. A bit better than previous in pass rush, though it's not his strength. He is still completely lost in pass cover. 

[Booch]

Just now, wbbfan said:

Zach's play cost us a GC, and he's been so putrid in the GCs and playoffs; he has a long way to go before that. 

 He did give me a ton of hope again. I had hope after his preseason play as well, but last week was rough. His start to the game was also rough. He tossed some ducks early last night that had me worried. I'm glad he got it together. I hope he keeps it tight from here on. I am reasonably optimistic that this will continue. 

With Jones, he pretty much did what he always does. A bit better than previous in pass rush, though it's not his strength. He is still completely lost in pass cover. 

ZC needs to play like he did...take whats there and not just heave it deep all the time...and BO being back will help him in that too....his arm tho...even on a lot of his completed passes is not what it was....but it is workeable and he gives us best chance to win no doubt....experience alone is huge

Jones is a good situational and rotational guy....thats why he was dumped in Edm for Anderson....a complete LB who was a raw rookie at that and even the Elks had the foresight to cut ties and give the better player...albeit a rookie the chance to grow and shine...we need to do that in some positions

Who here wouldn't take Anderson over Jones??....Morgan as well for that matter....and I bet if we gave J.Jones the opportunity...T.Jones wouldnt be missed in the least as the starter...and would prob look better situationally

[GCn20]

4 minutes ago, Booch said:

ZC arm is not what it was but he had a good game once he warmed up....has he did enough this yr tho to validate an extension sight unseen...to be determined

Jones made some plays...but was also brutal in several too....there is that to consider....now if he can consistently be top level game in....game out then sure he is decent....but he still has holes in his game and they aren't little holes

Is he our best option?...who knows...but I doubt it and the fact they don't give a guy a shot who has already proven it in the league just to see who is better...well that in my opinion is bad rostering, as you should always be trying to be better....and we don't seem to want to find out...And if J.Jones is...and it pushes T.Jones to a rotational/situational role...where he would seem even better, then why not find out if it makes the overall team better?....

Also...was against a winless team as well....be that player in all games...against all comers....no?

I just don't get how some people have an adverse opinion to trying to put best team out there...but rather just be "ok" at times....and never know..

Tony Jones and Zach Collaros were both great last night. Eat your crow like a man.

[Goalie]

6 minutes ago, Booch said:

ZC arm is not what it was but he had a good game once he warmed up....has he did enough this yr tho to validate an extension sight unseen...to be determined

Jones made some plays...but was also brutal in several too....there is that to consider....now if he can consistently be top level game in....game out then sure he is decent....but he still has holes in his game and they aren't little holes

Is he our best option?...who knows...but I doubt it and the fact they don't give a guy a shot who has already proven it in the league just to see who is better...well that in my opinion is bad rostering, as you should always be trying to be better....and we don't seem to want to find out...And if J.Jones is...and it pushes T.Jones to a rotational/situational role...where he would seem even better, then why not find out if it makes the overall team better?....

Also...was against a winless team as well....be that player in all games...against all comers....no?

I just don't get how some people have an adverse opinion to trying to put best team out there...but rather just be "ok" at times....and never know..

I think it comes down to they could go 18 and 0. Win the cup but some of you will say but they didn’t do it my way. We all know they ain’t perfect but sounding like broken records solves nothing either. It just becomes repetitive stuff and you’re kind of one of these yeah but they didn’t do it my way people so ya know, 3 and 0. Yeah but… 4 and 0… yeah but… 

Edited 4 hours ago by Goalie

[BomberBall.]

29 minutes ago, Booch said:

watch any game when he is in and teams decide to run...they let him get out of his stance and as he has no hand skills or ability to fight off a block...(partly because he needs one hand to prop up his head so he doesn't topple over...watch for that as I not making it up) and they just wash him left...or right as the runner glides right by....or thy just bully him and spin him around so his back is to the line...

And we trot him out there play after play after play

The key part of 4th quarter were we had 2 defensive stands that kinda sealed th deal...wasn't on field....crucial last drive Elks had...there he was for 4 consecutive snaps as the Elks rolled about 40 yards into our end

Oh I know about him propping up his head.  Lol …. I’ve commented on it before.

I can’t understand how the coaches watch film every week, and Thomas still sees the field for more than 5-10 snaps a game.

[wbbfan]

1 minute ago, GCn20 said:

Tony Jones and Zach Collaros were both great last night. Eat your crow like a man.

Jones was terrible in coverage. His instincts and ability to scrape to the ball and the play are tremendous in the run game. But he's out on an island watching everything happen in coverage ,then trying to help tackle. 

[GCn20]

6 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Zach's play cost us a GC, and he's been so putrid in the GCs and playoffs; he has a long way to go before that. 

 He did give me a ton of hope again. I had hope after his preseason play as well, but last week was rough. His start to the game was also rough. He tossed some ducks early last night that had me worried. I'm glad he got it together. I hope he keeps it tight from here on. I am reasonably optimistic that this will continue. 

With Jones, he pretty much did what he always does. A bit better than previous in pass rush, though it's not his strength. He is still completely lost in pass cover. 

Jones balled out last night. If your biggest complaint about TJ is that our MIKE is not great in pass cover then I think you guys are really reaching.

[BomberBall.]

Just now, wbbfan said:

Jones was terrible in coverage. His instincts and ability to scrape to the ball and the play are tremendous in the run game. But he's out on an island watching everything happen in coverage ,then trying to help tackle. 

I think Kramdi can be described like this too….. Somewhat.

[Goalie]

Most people liked T Jones last year but then they signed a former Argo who looked good against Walmart employees. So tunes they change. The next guy is always the best guy until the next next guy comes along. We have gone from the backup qb being the most popular to the PR guys being the most popular. The evolution of entitlement 

Edited 4 hours ago by Goalie

[Booch]

Just now, GCn20 said:

Tony Jones and Zach Collaros were both great last night. Eat your crow like a man.

didnt say they werent....last game T.Jones was far from great....and even this gane if yu watched he had several crappy plays....was he good...sure...is he an all-star?...no....can we be better...game in and game out...definately....tug on his wang all you want but he has holes in his game....why you so hesitant to try and get better is baffling to say the least...you definately a Mike Oshea sycophant thtas for sure...and thats ok....

 

[GCn20]

Just now, Goalie said:

Most people liked T Jones last year but then they signed a former Argo. 

Tony Jones has played very well this year...but J.Jones is younger and has a higher ceiling MAYBE...seems to be the crux of the argument. Just complaining for the sake of complaining imo.

[Booch]

4 minutes ago, Goalie said:

I think it comes down to they could go 18 and 0. Win the cup but some of you will say but they didn’t do it my way. We all know they ain’t perfect but sounding like broken records solves nothing either. It just becomes repetitive stuff and you’re kind of one of these yeah but they didn’t do it my way people so ya know, 3 and 0. Yeah but… 4 and 0… yeah but… 

and you sound like a broken one in the reverse...so whats you point? and fielding or finding out what your best ri=oster is so you dont flop when iit counts and have zero deth for injuries because you didnt find out your best roster is my point...then yeah I'll take my point every time....proof is in the pudding and our 3 straight losses are directly attributed to lack of starter quality depth and poor coaching and in game decisions...yeah we got first in the west....to every player on that team...and any player who has played....they will tell you bigfuckingdeal

And from a guy who always says "this player is cooked"...pretty funny you calling out other posters for wanting to optimize a roster...and you say that...ALOT

[GCn20]

6 minutes ago, Booch said:

didnt say they werent....last game T.Jones was far from great....and even this gane if yu watched he had several crappy plays....was he good...sure...is he an all-star?...no....can we be better...game in and game out...definately....tug on his wang all you want but he has holes in his game....why you so hesitant to try and get better is baffling to say the least...you definately a Mike Oshea sycophant thtas for sure...and thats ok....

 

Who says J. Jones is better? It's not tugging on OSheas nuts to ask that question. It's not just Osh...it's Younger, it's Hall as well that don't share your assessment. Are you seriously suggesting you are a better talent evaluator than these 3 men? Evan Holm and Redha Kramdi would have been cut early in their careers if it were up to you. 

Edited 3 hours ago by GCn20

[Goalie]

T Jones ain’t the problem on D. Honestly the D really isn’t the problem at all, the D starts slow but comes on strong, they have breakdowns like 2 series a game maybe but it’s really the O that games are closer than should be. We 2 and outed the 3rd quarter. That’s not on Jake or T Jones. J jones or person don’t help that. 

[Booch]

2 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Tony Jones has played very well this year...but J.Jones is younger and has a higher ceiling MAYBE...seems to be the crux of the argument. Just complaining for the sake of complaining imo.

And in an 18 gane season...better numbers....than a T.Jones season....and better measurables...there's also that....he has 2 rings too...

 

6 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Most people liked T Jones last year but then they signed a former Argo. 

people last yr...and not jus "me and my opinion is always the best" were not happy with him...and said he had holes

[wbbfan]

1 minute ago, Goalie said:

I think it comes down to they could go 18 and 0. Win the cup but some of you will say but they didn’t do it my way. We all know they ain’t perfect but sounding like broken records solves nothing either. It just becomes repetitive stuff and you’re kind of one of these yeah but they didn’t do it my way people so ya know, 3 and 0. Yeah but… 4 and 0… yeah but… 

It's almost like we keep repeating the same mistakes that cost us the last 3 GCs. If you're happy to be in the play-off race, and happy we're on the 2 GCS, that's great for you. But expecting improvement and accountability for those losses isn't wrong. You can argue how long the honeymoon period should be after a championship, but 4th year post-ship is well past it. Arguably, losing in 3 gcs after reduces that time. Especially in the way we did. 

[Goalie]

Everyone has holes. What the **** do the last 3 grey cups have to do with 2025? 

Edited 4 hours ago by Goalie

[Booch]

Just now, GCn20 said:

Who says J. Jones is better? It's not tugging on OSheas nuts to ask that question. It's not just Osh...it's Younger, it's Hall as well.

so...have you been in the discussion where Osh said...yeah...I know you guys would prefer J.Jones but I gonna roll with T.jones?....I didnt realize that.....you're right I guess...

1 minute ago, wbbfan said:

It's almost like we keep repeating the same mistakes that cost us the last 3 GCs. If you're happy to be in the play-off race, and happy we're on the 2 GCS, that's great for you. But expecting improvement and accountability for those losses isn't wrong. You can argue how long the honeymoon period should be after a championship, but 4th year post-ship is well past it. Arguably, losing in 3 gcs after reduces that time. Especially in the way we did. 

some people dont get it....first place is a win to them...Osh does no wrong...as a former player first place is a big whoopdydo if you fail in the big game....especially 3 yrs running

1 minute ago, Goalie said:

Everyone has holes. 

ok....desrcibe the holes on 3 key players on defence, since they all have em.....pick any 3....go

 

[wbbfan]

9 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Jones balled out last night. If your biggest complaint about TJ is that our MIKE is not great in pass cover then I think you guys are really reaching.

No, no, he's bad. He is never in a position to even provide a Pylons contribution in coverage. 

Also, it's 2025 in the CFL. Both Wil and Mac are in the same role now, and defending the pass is always significantly more important in the CFL. What other team in the league runs to win games? 

[Booch]

how he ball out...what did he do that ws extraordinary that you dont see in any LB up here who is deemed an all-star

He played well I agree...was coached and schemed excellently as well and carried it out as drawn up....but if you watch he also made some *** mistakes and is a liabiloty in space and coverage....but is good in the box and would be an excellent situational guy/roation piece...nobody is saying he needs to be cut...but he is not a legit A1 mlb in the league thats all...so to criticize people for wanting to see us try and get better is odd when they get all bothered when their opinion is criticized.....mainly backed by "yeah but 5 cups in a row" but fail to see the 3 losses in a row from same issues

[wbbfan]

7 minutes ago, Booch said:

so...have you been in the discussion where Osh said...yeah...I know you guys would prefer J.Jones but I gonna roll with T.jones?....I didnt realize that.....you're right I guess...

some people dont get it....first place is a win to them...Osh does no wrong...as a former player first place is a big whoopdydo if you fail in the big game....especially 3 yrs running

ok....desrcibe the holes on 3 key players on defence, since they all have em.....pick any 3....go

 

Legit, I don't think Deatrick Nichols has a hole in his game. Most players who are extreme outliers have holes in their game. Holm is a good example, though he has grown a lot. Especially if you are a db, if you have a big gap in your game people are going to exploit the crap out of you. Football is too dependent on 1-on-1s to be able to get by being heavily flawed. That's why we see so many teams play a nose or cross the face of Kola now. Why teams read WJ, etc. 

[Booch]

10 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Legit, I don't think Deatrick Nichols has a hole in his game. Most players who are extreme outliers have holes in their game. Holm is a good example, though he has grown a lot. Especially if you are a db, if you have a big gap in your game people are going to exploit the crap out of you. Football is too dependent on 1-on-1s to be able to get by being heavily flawed. That's why we see so many teams play a nose or cross the face of Kola now. Why teams read WJ, etc. 

I know the usual suspects are gonna lose their wad on this but Kramdi is in same boat as T.Jones...good in box...crashing down at line...run blitzes...but serious holes...lost in space....has a hard time running with receivers/backs and is not a good tackler/form tackler...he's a shin diver and doesn't wrap up......Is he good?...he's adequate and wont kill you...could we be better...most definitely...why dont we use the better player...(and I can think of 3 easily off top my head) no frickin clue...just an Osh preference and the Canadian aspect of it I sure makes him all giddy

I use to rag on Holm a lot but he has really upped part of his game to accommodate for some his weak points...And has done so as he was given the opportunity as a young player/rookie...hence it is so vital to give guys opportunities, as you dont know until you test them...and this day and age practices wont facilitate the opportunity

30 yr old T.Jones......he is what he is.....Jake...he is what he is...and not even close to what he was...which wasnt much and he aint gonna get better...Kramdi too...he's hit his ceiling, but is very valuabloe as a guy who can come in in a lot of situations and gives you great depth if injury....and the CDN part makes him even more valuable as a super sub

Kolo...holes all over his game...at his ceiling and zero upside there...

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Booch

[SpeedFlex27]

2 hours ago, Brandon said:

He had a better game last night then the previous week.... let that sink in.  

He should just go away with what little pride he has left. Imagine having to back that guy up & your HC thinks he's better than you 

47 minutes ago, BomberBall. said:

Oh I know about him propping up his head.  Lol …. I’ve commented on it before.

I can’t understand how the coaches watch film every week, and Thomas still sees the field for more than 5-10 snaps a game.

Five to 10 snaps would be too many.

 

38 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Everyone has holes. What the **** do the last 3 grey cups have to do with 2025? 

Everything as they were losses.

[Booch]

31 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

He should just go away with what little pride he has left. Imagine having to back that guy up & your HC thinks he's better than you 

Five to 10 snaps would be too many.

 

Everything as they were losses.

yeah...exactly...the last 3 all were a loss...for basically the same 2...3 reasons....and in 2025...we doing the exact same things again for most part in a couple those areas.....cant say we are playing injured guys over guys we have no trust in...or didnt play at all...never mind give a chance to see if they can actually play when it matters most...but were aren't there yet....but at first glance...we gonna have no end with any experience to take any load of WJ or Vaughters...or cover then if they banged up...and we continue to run out  some inferior DT's...and if a couple of the are the best we have...hence they playing..thats a serious eff up in off-season recruiting and planning

[JuranBoldenRules]

1 hour ago, Goalie said:

T Jones ain’t the problem on D. Honestly the D really isn’t the problem at all, the D starts slow but comes on strong, they have breakdowns like 2 series a game maybe but it’s really the O that games are closer than should be. We 2 and outed the 3rd quarter. That’s not on Jake or T Jones. J jones or person don’t help that. 

Lots to learn from that game.  Edmonton exposed our coverages by running switch routes where guys cross and go vertical to other side of field they started from.

Our HB's and Safety made really bad reads on what route they needed to prioritize on some of those plays and Edmonton hit/almost hit several big plays off those.  Nichols kind of got lost on the TD and jumped eligible OL...but really who cares about that guy at midfield, not a threat, while Bridges stayed with his guy across the field and the other wideout got passed off twice, third time (when he turned vertical) to no one because Nichols was out in the flat on a OL.  Then he was running by himself to the endzone with the ball.

You know it's a bad bust when a guy is running completely free on a play from the minus side of midfield because our coverages hugely prioritize sitting on vertical routes basically until they cross the 30.

But the games are so long, have 4-5 negative plays are going to happen.  You want to be able to get those back with turnovers and sacks.