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FrostyWinnipeg

The Star Wars Thread

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Saw it this afternoon.

Certainly did not disappoint.  Was a little worried that it would not live up to the hype, but found it much better than TFA  or Rogue One.  Lots of screen time with some of the original characters mixed in with the new.

Also lots of plots details to discuss . Given the title I don' need to use hidden text, do I?

Edited by itchy

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I also saw it this afternoon and loved it. Can't wait to see it again.

A few random thoughts off the top of my head:

Didn't see the Snoke twist coming at all.  Surprised by leia's role given real life events.  A bit disappointed by the reveal of Rey's parents.

Edited by bigg jay
Stupid autocorrect

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I liked it. Lots unexpected. Killing Snoke (not Smoke) the biggest twist, although consistent with the Syth mythology.

They didn't need the little bird things. I think they put them in just to have them in the trailer.

Not sure they aren't going to do something different with Rey's parents or if that was the story. Not sure if it was a lie by Kilo.

I want them to send Leia off properly in the last movie. Use CGI if you have to but don't just drop her. The character and the actress deserve better. But I do like how they are not scared to kill off both old characters (Luke) and new (the Admiral and the mechanic girl).

 

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Well I’m in the minority here. I was not a fan of this one. I found Luke underused and I hated that they “killed” him at the end. I did like most of the force use. The whole dreadnaught thing was lame. All those star destroyers and they couldn’t take out that little fleet. Just felt unbelievable. Snoke now feels like a throwaway character. I’m sure they can hash him out in books, but they didn’t explain where he came from or anything.  Luke barely trained Rey. Where was the training that Snoke said he needed to complete with Kylo?  The whole Leia flying through space. The lame jokes felt forced. 

Uggh. I was looking for something new and different, but this just wasn’t it. 

The only good thing to me was the music and acting. Otherwise the story and plot were just bleh. 

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So I saw it again today and I enjoyed it a bit more. I think I’m more sour because Luke died. Although I still think there are quite a few plot holes. 

 

It it also seems like they’re trying to kill off the Skywalker lineage. Would have been nice if there was more then just Ben. Like if Luke had a kid or something. I still really like Rey though. 

Edited by Logan007

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13 hours ago, Logan007 said:

Well I’m in the minority here. I was not a fan of this one. I found Luke underused and I hated that they “killed” him at the end. I did like most of the force use. The whole dreadnaught thing was lame. All those star destroyers and they couldn’t take out that little fleet. Just felt unbelievable. Snoke now feels like a throwaway character. I’m sure they can hash him out in books, but they didn’t explain where he came from or anything.  Luke barely trained Rey. Where was the training that Snoke said he needed to complete with Kylo?  The whole Leia flying through space. The lame jokes felt forced. 

Uggh. I was looking for something new and different, but this just wasn’t it. 

The only good thing to me was the music and acting. Otherwise the story and plot were just bleh. 

Agree with you. I dont hate this movie like some do, this really seems to be a polarizing movie among fans. But I was disappointing. They built up soo much and had soo much potential and just pissed it away. Snoke didnt have to be darth plagueis, and ray didnt have to be the daughter of satine-kenobi  /  kanan-hera / ezra-sabine but they had to be some thing. If they wanted ray to be a 1 in a trillion chance out of no where they shouldnt have set up her parents soo much. Snoke was bordered on darth maul levels of poor use. 

2 hours ago, Logan007 said:

So I saw it again today and I enjoyed it a bit more. I think I’m more sour because Luke died. Although I still think there are quite a few plot holes. 

 

It it also seems like they’re trying to kill off the Skywalker lineage. Would have been nice if there was more then just Ben. Like if Luke had a kid or something. I still really like Rey though. 

They can allways retcon that stuff back in, in the extended universe they have a few generations of skywalker past luke. Though I doubt they will no any time soon. 

The movie wasnt bad at all, not like the prequels. Id say my least favorite of the 3 reboots.  They settle for too much shallow fan service while failing to deliver on what made star wars great in the first place. 

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That not good. Too much comedy relief. No one was a serious character. The story meandered everywhere. 

The second of the trilogy is where the bad guys win and there is very little hope but this was not that. 

I do like the story arc of Ren and Rey being connected. It's a unique way to tell the conflicted character story. 

I dont understand why they killed Snoke but I liked the way they did it. 

Overall, disappointed. Rogue One was very better and gritier. 

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Saw it tonight. Will have to see it again but I come away More disappointed than impressed.  Actually very disappointed  

I loved seeing Luke in (limited)  action.  I loved Yoda. I thought Hamil was tremendous especially at the end. 

But it felt like they tried too hard to be different after fans felt TFA was a retread and that hurt what they did. Taking risks is great. Doing it just to do it isn’t. 

I absolutely hate that they killed Luke. Sure he’s almost certain to show up in the next film. But this trilogy now comes off as “let’s get the old fogies out of here” way too much.  There was no reason to kill him other than he would always be the central character if you didn’t. 

I think killing Snoke was a cheat. Guess what fans, you shouldn’t waste time giving a heck about these characters because we might “shock” you with their deaths.   Unless there is a reason to explain him in the next episode he was a totally manufactured bad guy with zero depth that they killed so they didn’t have to answer any of those questions. Ridiculous. 

Plus Snoke was shown to be so immensely powerful that the foreshadow was a Snoke/Luke confrontation or Kylo and Rey team up. Short term shock that hurts the long term. 

Reys parents. This is another cheat. Unless Kylo lied. Twists work when it makes sense. This one made no sense. Kylo clearly reacted to her in TFA and I believe it was the novel that had him exclaim “it IS you!”  So this “twist” seems like a change. Again are these shocks because they had nothing to begin with? (Which would fit JJ actually)

The force ability to appear over long distances and interact. Another cheat.  You might say the whole idea of force ghosts is a contrivance but used sparingly it becomes an emotional plot device. What they did here was ridiculous. 

It robbed of us some really emotional things by “pretending” to give them to us. Luke and Leia reunion, Luke and Kylo confrontation and Luke in action. They stole all those moments we were waiting for. 

Sure they showed us Luke’s power by him being able to do it. But when he walked out to confront Kylo I thought we’d get full friggen Jedi Master badass Luke. Nope. We got a mirage. 

A few smaller nitpicks.  Leia saving herself was awful. Just awful. 

Where were the other force Ghosts?  Maybe they felt it would undermine the specialness of Yoda but I’d have liked to see Ben and Anakin appear to impart some wisdom on Luke. 

Also weird that Luke used a Blue saber in his Kylo confrontation. 

Why should we believe Kylo is a threat?  He lost to Rey already and is constantly being out smarted.   He killed his master through trickery not power.  Is episode 9 really the showdown between the least powerful dark force user and the least powerful light side user?

Not resolving Liea was a bad idea. Maybe JJ has a great idea but I doubt it. It will be General Leia is dead, in the opening scroll. 

The major plot point about the Skywalker line not being special seemed like too much of a corporate decision to move away from the OT.   It undermines the OT and the entire basis for the franchise that the Skywalkers were all historically special.  And the idea that Luke was this broken man just feels....it cheapens the OT. 

So....not good. 

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Agree with everything you said.  Those are almost my feeling exactly of what I came away with (I just can't express myself as well as you do).

They started off fairly well with TFA, and then the books and this movie just...tossed it all away.  This is the first time I thought to myself "they should have kept Lucas on as an idea guy and had him help them a bit".  Not write the story or anything, but give some input.

I think the only way they could somehow retcon Rey's lineage, is if Obi-Wan showed up to her in the next film and basically said something like, "I fell in love with this woman on Tatooine.  It was a short romance.  She left me because I had to watch over Luke, and I hadn't spent enough time with her.  When she left she was pregnant with my son/daughter.  Apparently they fell to bad times and drink.  Even when they had something special happen to them, they feared it, and ran away from it.  The something was you Rey.  I...am your grandfather".   I don't know, something like that.

I feel robbed.

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Overall it was entertaining but there were a lot of problems.  I pretty much agree with the criticisms already presented.  Too much comedy, unfocused plot with too many disparate elements, too much nonsense (First Order can't take out the resistance fleet in the beginning, floating Leia, etc), Rose was a terrible and unnecessary character, Snoke seems pretty pointless now.

And by God Laura Dern is just the most unlikable person in the world.

Gimme more Benicio Del Toro!

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Liked most of the filmmaker's choices, especially that Rey is someone of no particular lineage. I'm so sick of chosen one / royal blood storylines, they were tired when the Matrix did them and then the Star Wars prequels and Harry Potter ran them into the ground.

Thought most of the jokes landed, thought the tooling of Hux was  the funniest one.  The throne room fight scene was great, the high point of the movie, the death of Snoke was shocking and cool, and the Kylo / Rey dance in the aftermath was cool as well, it felt like anything could happen. That red salt planet looked gorgeous, the red-marked plain in the aftermath of the battle reminded me of fresh snow turning muddy at recess. Luke's distraction at the end was the ultimate Jedi move, winning a battle with zero aggression. Liked how Luke echoed the Jedi practice of lying to one's apprentice.  Liked that the Dark Side showed Rey that she was her own parent.    And the Dern maneuver was excellent.

It had some pacing problems, tho, the jedi island stuff was pokey until Kylo Ren shows up and the casino excursion felt like it was on-point thematically but kinda meh dramatically. When you've got a siege going, you shouldn't just be able to leave the siege.  I don't even think we see Rose and Finn jump away, it's just that suddenly they're in hyperspace.  And they're looking for a guy who has no name, but who has a distinctive piece of costume jewelry?  heh.

It's my #4 Star Wars movie right now.  I don't think it's as good as Empire, Star Wars, or Rogue One, but I liked it better than all the rest of them.

Edited by johnzo

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43 minutes ago, johnzo said:

It's my #4 Star Wars movie right now.  I don't think it's as good as Empire, Star Wars, or Rogue One, but I liked it better than all the rest of them.

I think I would put it at #6, behind Episodes 3, 4, 5 and 7, and Rogue One.  Better than Episodes 1, 2, and 6.

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I really liked it overall. The visuals in the IMAX 3D were fantastic. Other things I liked..not really knowing where Rey/Ren land on the force scale...good? Bad? I liked that Reys parents where no bodies (assuming they were and Ren wasn't lying) Shows that the Force is open(or opening) to everyone, and not just a select few (can the force evolve?).  The slave kids at the end where very reminiscent of Anakin and even Luke as young ones. Looking forward to the expansion on that story line. 

I didn't like that Luke died, but I get it. With no Snoke, Luke had to go. Balance ya'll. And of course the Leia scene was lame. Bad idea all around. The whole, these big ships cant destroy a tiny fleet was....plausible I guess? But felt like reaching. I loved all the new weapons though. When Luke came to the resistance, I wasn't expecting him to fight Rey, thought he would talk to him and be killed and do the whole yoda/obi thing. So I wasn't too disappointed with the limited action he had. Yoda was awesome, and anyone notice Rey stole the books? Which is why I'm guessing Yoda was ok with burning that place down.

Anyway, a good amount of holes. But overall, I really liked it. Can't wait to see it again!

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On 12/17/2017 at 12:00 AM, JCon said:

The second of the trilogy is where the bad guys win and there is very little hope but this was not that.

The entire Resistance and all its equipment was destroyed except for the few people on the Falcon at the end...sure they were all like "we are the spark" but I read that as just putting a brave face on things.

Kinda like an end-of-season interview with the GM of a non playoff team ... "we like our core and our approach, we're gonna come back next year and compete."

Edited by johnzo

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22 minutes ago, johnzo said:

The entire Resistance and all its equipment was destroyed except for the few people on the Falcon at the end...sure they were all like "we are the spark" but I read that as just putting a brave face on things.

Kinda like an end-of-season interview with the GM of a non playoff team ... we like our core and our approach, we're gonna come back next year and compete.

Well, no, as they said in the film, all of their allies have been alerted in the outer rim. The cavalry is coming now. 

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I'll add, this could be my least favourite of all the films. That includes Jar Jar Binks and midichlorian ruining, Phantom Menace. At least, that had an epic lightsaber duel. This had.... ?

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34 minutes ago, JCon said:

Well, no, as they said in the film, all of their allies have been alerted in the outer rim. The cavalry is coming now. 

The thing I remember is that they alerted all their allies, and no one replied, no one wanted to stick their necks out and rescue them.  But I've seen it just the one time.

Edited by johnzo

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Just now, johnzo said:

The thing I remember is that they alerted all their allies, and no one replied, no one wanted to stick their necks out and rescue them.  But I've seen it just the one time.

They couldn't send out a signal with their available resources, which is why they were trying to get to that planet (forget the name). They finally got the signal out and replies started coming as they made their escape on the Millennium Falcon. 

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2 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

Yoda was awesome, and anyone notice Rey stole the books? Which is why I'm guessing Yoda was ok with burning that place down.

She stole the books?  I missed that!

One thing I liked was when Yoda spoke with Luke, it really was just like Luke was the kid from New Hope/Empire all over again.  Maybe my favourite part of the movie.

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On 12/16/2017 at 6:48 AM, Logan007 said:

The whole Leia flying through space.

I've seen a lot of folks complaining about this and I don't get it. The Force will often pop in to help out untrained force sensitive folks in mortal danger ... Luke against the Wampa ... Luke against the Death Star ... Rey against Kylo Ren and her stormtrooper guards.  This just felt like more of that.

Not saying that people are wrong or anything, I just don't understand the objection given how we've seen this very thing a bunch of times in past movies.

 

Edited by johnzo

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17 hours ago, JCon said:

I'll add, this could be my least favourite of all the films. That includes Jar Jar Binks and midichlorian ruining, Phantom Menace. At least, that had an epic lightsaber duel. This had.... ?

Uh...way better acting.  Bleh, the prequels were awful.

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17 hours ago, JCon said:

They couldn't send out a signal with their available resources, which is why they were trying to get to that planet (forget the name). They finally got the signal out and replies started coming as they made their escape on the Millennium Falcon. 

No they didn't.  No one replied.

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