Yourface

O'Shea's decision not to pull Willy against BC was completely inexplicable. I've never seen such a terrible performance from a QB who did not end up being pulled.

Drew Willy was absolutely terrible in the second half of the season... I'm not sure that he deserves it. Clarence Denmark would have had my vote.

If it's anything like the old S Section, I'll be thrilled.

Saying someone's opinion is stupid is just not cool. There's a way to get your point across without sounding condescending.

The sooner people admit their mistakes and swallow their pride, the easier it is for them to earn anyone's respect.

Your numbers are correct Mr Dee. Sorry about the confusion. Hajrullahu missed a field goal against Calgary in week 17 and another yesterday. Those are the two misses that I'm talking about. But yeah, good for him to get that record.

???? Say what? If I'm not mistaken, in those 53 minutes, the Bombers were in a position to score but failed on three different occasions (2 missed field goals and a missed convert). Yes, one convert but only one FG. Hajrullahu kicked 4 of 5 FGs and unofficially, I believe, set a new Bomber and CFL rookie percentage record. Will wait for the official word on the actual percentages from the CFL news centre. Congratulations mr. rookie kicker. Yeah, fantastic season for him. But he DID technically miss two field goals. Blocked field goals now count as misses.

???? Say what? If I'm not mistaken, in those 53 minutes, the Bombers were in a position to score but failed on three different occasions (2 missed field goals and a missed convert).

I wouldn't say Marve struggled to move the ball at all... He played the last 23 minutes of the first game against Calgary, engineered two touchdowns plus another drive that should have resulted in a field goal. He was put in a difficult situation with a minute left as the Bombers were in a 10-point deficit and in a hurry to throw the ball downfield. Three of his ten throws were made then. You just can't draw conclusions from 10 pass attempts, as he likely would've completed a higher percentage had he played the entire game. I wouldn't say he struggled yesterday either considering the weather conditions. The offence managed to score 15 points in one half of football under his lead. Marve was on pace for more passing yards than Mitchell. Marve in 53 minutes = 29 points for the Bombers Other quarterbacks against the same opposition in 67 minutes = 12 points for the Bombers It doesn't mean much but I think he played better than his stats would suggest. Hajrullahu left some points on the field during Marve's time at the helm too (7 to be exact).

Marve gives us a better chance for a comeback win at this point. Brohm has a better chance to be a starter then Marve IMHO. I think it's a bit premature to make those types of claims. Marve looked better in training camp / preseason but both looked good in limited action this season. Marve also has much more room to grow.

The fact remains that all stats can be looked at as deceptive. It's like Grigsby leading the CFL in rushing yards at one point, even though he had an average of -0.2 or whatever. He simply had more attempts than anyone else. Stats are not the driving force behind team's attacks…they are the results of choices teams make in their offensive philosophy. Each one has to be looked at individually, and for our team, Willy's passing yardage is remarkable for a 1st year QB. and that's all that's being said. I agree that all stats can be deceptive, but it's all about context. Willy has made the third-most pass attempts in the league this year, and consequently, has had the second-most passing yards. Makes sense. I'm not saying his passing yards totals are bad. I just don't think they're as impressive as some people are making them out to be.

You do realize that this statement also supports Willy's stats as a passing QB. It's easy to argue that because we did lack a running game, it became harder and harder to keep up a good passing game, and I think, as the year went on, that was proven. I've said many times that the lack of a running game has probably contributed to Willy's lacklustre play this season. The fact remains that the teams with the most passing yards often lack a running game. That's why it's a bit of a deceptive stat.

Pretty good post, but I don't think those stats are particularly impressive. With the lack of a running game, the Bombers were forced to rely on the passing game a lot, which obviously influences Willy's stats in a huge way. Heck, Burris had almost as many passing yards as Willy, yet not many people would claim that he had a good season. I also don't think we've had a quarterback play in as many games as Willy has this year since 2007. In a nine-team league, it isn't exactly impressive to be tied for fifth in touchdown passes either. With Willy (as with anyone else), you need to take the good with the bad. He's thrown the most interceptions in the league, and has hung on to the ball for far too long on more than one occasion. He can only improve from here on out, but it's pretty ridiculous to say that he's in an "entirely different league" than Marve.

Not an outstanding game by Marve, but I doubt that we win with Willy in the second half.

Definitely Ottawa right now. I've always been one to cheer for the underdog.

Have you not seen Willy play at all during the second half of this season? He's been putrid. It can't be THAT hard for Marve to at least be as good as Willy's been lately. And you wonder how Marve can benefit from getting these reps? I'll just reiterate what I said earlier because I think it explains it pretty well... Willy has already played 16 games this year, and will not benefit from playing in one more meaningless game, especially if he's ailing. He's probably already looking forward to the off-season. Marve, on the other hand, could certainly use the experience as he hasn't played a full game yet. Getting that type of experience would allow him to go into the off-season knowing what he needs to improve on and what to expect next year. Iso thinks you're tacky. I knew someone would call me out on that His post was just extremely long and cumbersome. I realize now that I probably shouldn't have erased most of it, but I think there's a big difference in the motives behind our actions here. You deleted three or four lines of text only to ADD four lines that contain the words "delete." While I tried to eliminate some of the cumbersomeness in this thread, you simply did it to suit your point of view.

Have you not seen Willy play at all during the second half of this season? He's been putrid. It can't be THAT hard for Marve to at least be as good as Willy's been lately. And you wonder how Marve can benefit from getting these reps? I'll just reiterate what I said earlier because I think it explains it pretty well... Willy has already played 16 games this year, and will not benefit from playing in one more meaningless game, especially if he's ailing. He's probably already looking forward to the off-season. Marve, on the other hand, could certainly use the experience as he hasn't played a full game yet. Getting that type of experience would allow him to go into the off-season knowing what he needs to improve on and what to expect next year.

The Riders were 8-2 with Durant throwing for 172 yards a game, they've been 1-6 without him while averaging something like 225 yards a game passing. As Yourface already stated, the correlation between throwing for a ton of yards and winning football games isn't there. sure it is, but 225 yards isn't throwing for a ton of yards, in fact it's a pretty poor total. With Willy we're not talking about a guy who threw for 5000 yards either, 3500 yards is a good season for a qb in the CFL but it's not an outstanding season either. I think some people are skewing things way way too much. You show me a qb that throws for 350 yards a game consistently though and I'll show you a correlation between winning and losing. Stats are a measure of what teams accomplish, any good stat correlates to winning and any bad stat correlates to losing, that's just the nature of them. Not necessarily when it comes to passing yards, as I've already shown. No you took a limited sample size and drew conclusions that fit your line of thinking. One season is hardly a representative sample especially when this season has been as odd as it has with wins and losses for everyone. It's nothing to do with the number of tds thrown vs. ints, it simply comes down to turnovers and teams that don't take care of the football lose. You'd be further ahead simply saying ints are a better measure of a qb. You look at big picture sample sizes and you'll see that better stats = more wins, that's just inarguable because putting up passing yards means your offense is moving the ball and more than likely scoring points. You keep insisting passing yards are over rated, they're not. Not at all, but like any statistic it's just one thing to look at. I don't know why you feel the need to try and put some above the other... oh yeah, you're trying to crap on Drew Willy that's why. Well of course... And throwing interceptions means you're giving the ball away while coming away with no points of your own. But anyway, one full season isn't a limited sample size lol. If you're so convinced that this year was an outlier in regards to the stats I posted, please present me with proof of your conviction. Come back to me after having calculated the same type of data for the three years prior to this one, and then I may eat my words. You're obviously grasping at straws here, because you can't even provide stats nor pertinent facts to support your argument. Here's another passage of yours that I find amusing: "It simply comes down to turnovers and teams that don't take care of the football lose." That's EXACTLY what I've been trying to say... Willy hasn't taken good care of the football this year, and it's part of the reason why he's lost so many games despite his high passing yards total. Of course there are other factors involved (for which he's not to blame), but that's one of the main issues.

Really? Is it that ridiculous to think that passing yards are overrated when evaluating a quarterback? Or that Willy needs to make better decisions with the ball in his hands? yes. Passing yards are one of the biggest numbers for a qb, the others on that level are going to be completion % and tds in my mind. You want a qb who can complete passes and throw tds. Yardage just goes along with the completing passes. ... And what you DON'T want is someone who throws a lot of interceptions. Passing yards tend to be the first thing that the average fan looks at when evaluating a quarterback, even though there are clearly better methods of evaluation. People who throw the ball a lot, throw more pick's. The same 4 qb's that have the most attempts are listed in different order in the ones with the most int's. Throwing the ball has its risk's. If the bombers offensive strategy is to throw a lot, then the int numbers will stay higher than normal or higher than teams that don't throw as much. Willy most picks, 3rd in attempts. glenn 2nd in picks 4th in attempts. ray most attempts 3rd in picks. burris 4th in picks 2nd in attempts. same 4 guys in yardage. ray, willy, glenn, burris. A QB who throws a lot should also score more than a few touchdowns. That's why the TD-INT ratio lends to a relatively fair evaluation. As I've already shown, there's much more correlation between the TD-INT ratio and the outcome of a game than between total passing yards and the outcome of a game. Why can't everyone simply agree that Willy needs to improve his decision-making?

Of course passing yards have some bearing on the outcome of a game... But again, the point we're making is that passing yards are overrated in the grand scheme of things, and that other factors such as the TD-INT ratio plays a greater part in winning and losing, as well as in evaluating a quarterback. Passing yards are to a QB as rushing yards are to a running back. That's as simple as it can be related. We don't have to over-analyze every statistic. Agreed... Yards per carry are a much more meaningful stat than total rushing yards.

Stats are taken from games, not the other way around. In other words, you cannot say that running the ball 60% passing will win a game for you, but you can say in a particular game it did. Stats are pliable, you can conform them to any argument as seen fit. And as to the statement that there is no correlation between throwing for a ton of yards and not winning….I don't agree. Generally speaking, in the CFL, the team that has the better passing statistics has a better chance of winning the game. Of course passing yards have some bearing on the outcome of a game... But again, the point we're making is that passing yards are overrated in the grand scheme of things, and that other factors such as the TD-INT ratio play a greater part in winning and losing, as well as in evaluating a quarterback.

And a good portion of the blame has to fall on the QB for throwing back-breaking interceptions.

Really? Is it that ridiculous to think that passing yards are overrated when evaluating a quarterback? Or that Willy needs to make better decisions with the ball in his hands? yes. Passing yards are one of the biggest numbers for a qb, the others on that level are going to be completion % and tds in my mind. You want a qb who can complete passes and throw tds. Yardage just goes along with the completing passes. ... And what you DON'T want is someone who throws a lot of interceptions. Passing yards tend to be the first thing that the average fan looks at when evaluating a quarterback, even though there are clearly better methods of evaluation.

The Riders were 8-2 with Durant throwing for 172 yards a game, they've been 1-6 without him while averaging something like 225 yards a game passing. As Yourface already stated, the correlation between throwing for a ton of yards and winning football games isn't there. sure it is, but 225 yards isn't throwing for a ton of yards, in fact it's a pretty poor total. With Willy we're not talking about a guy who threw for 5000 yards either, 3500 yards is a good season for a qb in the CFL but it's not an outstanding season either. I think some people are skewing things way way too much. You show me a qb that throws for 350 yards a game consistently though and I'll show you a correlation between winning and losing. Stats are a measure of what teams accomplish, any good stat correlates to winning and any bad stat correlates to losing, that's just the nature of them. Not necessarily when it comes to passing yards, as I've already shown.

Really? Is it that ridiculous to think that passing yards are overrated when evaluating a quarterback? Or that Willy needs to make better decisions with the ball in his hands?