17to85

Gotta sell hope to get asses in the seats. Fans turned in Willy so next guy might sell more seats regardless what happens in Edmonton. Sneak out a win people will rejoice and think it's all better

You oh so publically denounce fandom of a team then waltz back in acting like people would forget how proud you were of turning your back on the team you claimed to be a fan of and you are surprised people take you to task for it? Get over yourself.

I'd take all of Ottawas receivers over Adams not just Jackson and Williams. I don't know what Walters sees in Adams. He's a run of the mill inconsistent receiver. Good to be your #4 guy maybe but to be looked at as a main weapon? No wonder the offense struggles. Guy is straight up lazy on the field.

Hall has always been a passive defensive coordinator. That's the #1 thing I remember about him in Saskatchewan is his prevent defence.

I'm not trying to gain any kind of morale high ground. I'm comfortable being confrontational and argumentative, I know I'm doing it and I don't get surprised when people react accordingly. I'm just trying to help you see that you are doing the exact same thing and acting surprised when people react accordingly.

Lapolice was fired because he was coaching not to get blown out rather than coaching to win. That 10-8 record is attributed to a defense that played with aggression and swagger that forced a lot of turnovers and dragged a passive head coach along for the win. Lapo is a great coach if you only want to lose by a little bit, but he doesn't have the balls to win those tight games. Nothing has changed with him, we still see that passive guy as the offensive coordinator.

Did he really look better thoug? He had the same problems connecting on the deep balls because our receivers can't get separation downfield, he had no help from the running game, he got hit and sacked and rushed too, you know what the big advantage Nichols had was? He got to play in 3 down football territory. Give Willy an extra down at a few points in the game maybe we have a different opinion of his game too. I will agree that Nichols came in with more confidence, but that always happens when a backup goes in midgame. We saw the team with Nichols last year, it's not different. People are just holding out hope that the easy change fixes everything.

Or how about you drop the charade and just admit that you're pushing an agenda rather than feigning surprise when people go in the only natural direction a thread like this can go? The next time you try civil discourse will be the first. You always come in with hostile tones and then act surprised when people react in kind. You are the kind of person that is so convinced of your opinions that you are actually shocked that anyone might actually disagree and it offends you that not everyone shares your utter brilliance.

DERP. Isn't this like saying "We'd be a great team if we scored more points than the other team"?

Because it wasn't THAT long ago they were and the teams weren't championship teams. I for one still haven't forgiven Jim Daley for running Wickman out of town in favour of Willie Fells. Gavin Walls was also over shadowed by Tom Canada but I don't think he's as forgotten as all that among fans. You bring up his name anyone who has followed the team long enough will remember it.

Hang on a second, are we listing also rans as in guys who had high hopes but didn't pan out? Cause some of the players being listed were actually good players even if they didn't have a long tenure. I mean seeing Ryland Wickman on a list of also rans blows my mind, Wickman was great. So was Gavin Walls.

I think you are forgetting.... Mack has a better record than Walters and at least he made the playoffs one season and even appeared in the Grey Cup. We got some nice depth NI guys but how many real impact ones do we have? Who is our best NI player (other than Harris who any Winnipeg GM would have signed given he is a local and a proven commodity?) Never mind that it was Walters who was the NI guy for Mack anyway, and we can see from his work as GM that there isn't all that much difference in how the drafting has gone. At least Mack put some playmakers on the field from out of nowhere. All Walters does is spend in free agency and hope for the best. No team has ever been built through free agency.

bullshit, there are no credible sources speculating that firing O'Shea is even being considered right now and one source even says it's not in the cards yet you put up this same poll as last week, for what reason? There is only one, to get people talking about firing the coach.

I think people were done even before last night, that just cemented it for them, I know this because there wasn't even a gif thread yesterday. To me that is always the best indicator of apathy levels.

Then the GM shouldn't be so firmly in his coaches corner.

But then he pussied out on a deep pass from Nichols and looked for a flag. That guy is a problem on this team mark my words. Yeah he might be pissed off, but he's so inconsistent with his own effort it's not even funny.

You can make changes to players with O'Shea there too. The Gm is well within his rights to tell a coach how his roster is going to be if he isn't on board with it. It wouldn't be the first time it's happened and it won't be the last. What we know is that Walters and O'Shea are on the same page, arguing about whether to fire O'Shea or Willy rather than Walters is pointless because until the man in charge of building this team is held accountable it's more of the same. The season won't be saved by a coaching change or a quarterback change, we've seen countless quarterbacks here the last few years and quite a few coaches. I use terms like witch hunt because it fits. You really aren't interested in delving into the problems with the team you just want a big shiny scapegoat to pin all the blames on and you bang away at that drum. It's like all you want is the public spectacle of someone being held accountable. I'd rather address what is really wrong with this team. If they're going to blow it up, do it in the offseason and identify the correct person to be GM and get them here and let them build it. Trying to do a massive foundation repair by putting a new coat of paint on the house isn't going to work.

Unless you got an ace to come in and be GM right now then fire Walters in the offseason, get someone good in here and let them do what they will with the coaching staff and roster. Making token changes to the coaching staff now and throwing in with Walters for more years is just going to lead to more of the same.

Davis didn't do **** in preseason anyway and he still made the team, with him I think it was all about what they saw previously. Now as for why guys made it to camp and didn't I don't know but I have a real hard time believing that the choice to bring a guy to camp or not is based purely on attitude. Making that decision after training camp certainly, but before? I dunno that seems a stretch. Again I'm not discounting the theory because I do believe the underlying idea does have some truth to it, just that this specific case seems more nuanced.

We've had 3 years to see Walters work and it's been spotty the whole time so that argument doesn't fly, you're just all in for a witch hunt because you want heads to roll. What Willy makes doesn't matter because if you just start picking off the qb it's not going to change the team or the offense, we saw plenty of games without Willy when he's been hurt and it was an even bigger pile of ****. Fire the coach? Well we'll wind up with losers like Hall or Lapo and it'll be the same **** again because it's more of the same Mr. Nice Guy approach. You want to cry for change then cry for meaningful change. Walters is the guy who built this and he is the guy we should be pointing fingers at. We only make changes at qb or the coach mark my words we're going to be sitting here in 2 years time ready to fire another coach and run another qb out of town.

I said it before though, with Davis playing well perhaps they really did just like others better. Football is a game of opportunities sometimes. I will agree with your overall theory though, there is absolutely no reason this team shouldn't have been paying to retain someone like Demond Washington. Yeah he's hurt this year but that guy was a play maker and he had an attitude to match, but he was arguably the best db on the team last year. But here is the thing, Walters hired O'Shea, Walters is the GM and is he also in that good men crowd? because they both seem very in sync with regards to what they want.

What did Nichols show that Willy didn't? Willy made the one error on an interception but he was getting the ball away fine as well, the touchdown that Nichols scored was after a real good kick return too was it not? He didn't have to march the entire field to score it, not to mention that he was also in there during 3 down time and did take all 3 downs to get some first downs. The O was the exact same with Nichols and Willy last night. Some good but still lots of pressures and hits on the qb and too many dropped passes and receivers not making enough plays. You play Nichols you play Willy nothing is going to change. We can't establish the run, we can barely make 8 yards in 2 tries as an offense, these are deep rooted problems that shuffling the qb won't change.

If that's the case though then the GM needs to put his foot down and tell the coach that sometimes you put an ******* on the team because he's a flat out better player. It still comes down to the GM and for 3 years now this team hasn't been talented enough. We dropped Moore and Denmark in the offseason and replaced them with Dressler and Smith. Now Dressler I liked signing for a lot of reasons, but what's the logic behind Smith? Now we got 2 midgets in the receiving corps who play the same kind of game and our big receiver (Adams) quite frankly doesn't give enough of a **** to be consistent. We haven't seen a rookie receiver come in and make much of an impact until this season which is just flat out unacceptable. I understand moving on from Moore because a guy who got hurt that much is hard to rely on, so bring in Dressler, he's a vet and he showed last night how he can help a team, but changing out Denmark for Smith is just a lateral move at best and really not well thought out. Kyle Walters has failed to build a team here and it's on him because he is the one who put everything in place. I don't much like our coordinators either, Both Hall and Lapo are passive to a fault and I think the CFL has moved away from that in general but I believe both those hires come back to a rookie head coach trying to surround himself with some more experience and both those guys are experienced including some head coaching experience.

So you recognise that the problem starts higher up and is more widespread yet spend all your time here on a witch hunt for O'Shea and Willy anyway? Come off it. You just love to pin the blame on the easiest target (the coach and the qb) but we could change them out tomorrow and the team would have the exact same problems because it's the GM that built this crap fest. Save your energy and don't pile on guys who are just trying to make the best of what they were given.

but what about the D getting absolutely abused in the first half? They were awful from the get go.