Star Wars: Spoiler Thread Discussion

[Logan007]

Hey all,

 

I figured we should start a Star Wars spoiler thread discussion for those of us who have seen the movie.  I won't be posting in it until this evening, but those of you who have seen it, go ahead and post your thoughts on the movie in here rather then the Upcoming Movies thread.  I'm so stoked.

 

So for those who have not yet seen the movie...SPOILER WARNING BELOW!!!

[bb.king]

I'll go first since I live in New Zealand so it officially opened here yesterday and I've seen it. First off, great movie and WAY better than I-III. When Han and Chewie first appear it was almost a bit emotional!

The only real issue I had was the fight between Rey and Kylo Ren. Ren is supposed to be a master of the force and a legitimate threat to everyone. Rey had only just discovered she has force powers and picked up a lightsaber for the first time. I know Chewie had shot Ren and wounded him, but if he is that powerful he should have been able to easily beat a newbie like Rey. I thought it made him look weak. Maybe they'll address this in future movies.

[The Unknown Poster]

Holy ****!

[The Unknown Poster]

Fantastic film. Perfect? No. But about as close to originals as possible. Very very good.

I did not have an issue with the Kylo/Rey fight. They made it very clear that Kylo was pretty badly wounded. But one thing I think was purposeful was Kylo's fighting style with a light saber. It was very clubbing and basic. It seems to me that while he is very skilled in force power he is not very skilled in swordplay.

Snoke referred to completing Kylo's training. So we know Kylo is not fully trained, not a Sith. I think we can conclude he isn't a great swordsman. Plus Rey was completely guided by the force.

I thought the new actors were tremendous. I wasn't sure about Ridley because she seemed very small and skinny

In the trailers. She is the star of this film. She's very good. Very natural.

I have to run so here are some questions;

Who was Max Von Sydow's character ?

Is Rey Luke's daughter?

Where does Snoke come from?

[bb.king]

I suppose I compared it to wrestling where Ren was built up as the unstoppable monster heel who was beaten clean by someone in their first match, even though he was injured. I thought of Empire Strikes Back where Vader basically toys with Luke, despite Luke's training with Obi-Wan and Yoda, and when Vader decides to end the fight he does it in short order. I would have had Rey hold her own for a while, showing that she is quite strong with the force, but eventually overmatched, and then Chewie comes in for the save. I agree that Ren's swordplay seemed very basic and it's a good point that it may not be his strong suit. I thought they were going to explain why Ren's lightsaber crackled and was all ragged, but maybe that's for a future movie.

 

I said to my wife when I got home (for some reason she had no interest in going!!) that they finally seemed to write a really good female character in Star Wars. Leia was alright, Padme was meh, but I thought Rey was a great character. Good thought that maybe she's Luke's daughter. I was a bit surprised at how early in the movie they revealed that Ren was Han and Leia's son, but I guess they had to for the plot.

 

All in all, I completely agree with your holy **** assessment! I'm already looking forward to the next one. Only three more years, if they do it the same as the others.

[johnzo]

I call it: Rey is gonna turn to the Dark Side. She has this owlish predatory I-love-killing-things face that the film stops to acknowledge in two different fight scenes. She is going to trip the dark fantastic and she and Finn are gonna be fighting before we're done.

I really liked the film. My only disappointment: yet another superweapon. The rest of the derivative stuff I didn't mind: adorable droid marooned on desert planet with critical information, the Millennium Falcon smuggling fugitives, Han getting drawn back in, family redeeming family, etc. Loved the Tom Waits by way of Bob Marley sound to the cantina.

The only real issue I had was the fight between Rey and Kylo Ren. Ren is supposed to be a master of the force and a legitimate threat to everyone.

My take was that Darth Nose was a murderous child and terrible swordfighter, extremely gifted in the force but still a total Vader pretender. Even so he was an important minion who got face time with Supreme Leader and was trusted with the Jedi hunting mission. The Sith have fallen on hard times, it would seem (if these guys are Sith, I dunno, goggles grandma says that there's lots of different Force people around.) And I think Rey is supposed to be a generational talent, a Force McDavid.

Unlike you, b.b., I liked how the fighting looked crude and amateurish and not like the Jedi sword ballet we got in the prequels. The Force is totally amateur hour nowadays. I think this is really cool because there's a huge void for our new characters to fill.

And here I reveal that I am a total ******* dork: wasn't that lightsaber the one Luke lost on Cloud City? His Return of the Jedi lightsaber looked more like a candlestick.

[bb.king]

It's not that I didn't like Ren's style, just that it was more hack-and-slash than what they usually showed. It seemed like a Knight with a big, 2-handed broadsword instead of a fencing style of fighting. My favourite lightsaber duel is still the opening volley of Obi-Wan/Vader I in Revenge of the Sith.

Yes, I believe the lightsaber they showed was Luke's first one which used to be Anakin's. In Return of the Jedi he had a green blade.

[The Unknown Poster]

Yes that blue lightsaber was the one belonging to Anakin in the prequels that Kenobi takes and gives to Luke on A New Hope. Luke loses it on the fight with Vader.

I think Kylo was toying with Finn and Rey at first. He backed her up to the cliff edge and then it was her summoning the force that allowed her to defeat him. One review I read said she was previously trained but her knowledge was suppressed. Not sure about that.

Apparently the film was te edited and the "vision" Rey sees when touching the saber was originally a vision caused by Maz and was more involved showing the journey of the saber from Empire (including showing clips of Vader vs Luke). If you listened carefully you could hear vader speaking to Luke during that vision.

One thought I had was that Rey is actually another Solo child. And perhaps hidden away when Ben fell. There was

Some knowing glances around her. Would explain better if Han was watching over her. And wanted her to join his crew in an effort to keep her out of the fight. One thing I read was that every time anyone would seem to talk about her or ask about her the film cut away.

Kylo seemed to know her too. Maz hinted too when she told Rey she knew her "family" wasn't going back for her on Jaaku.

I liked that they showed us some torment in Kylo. And that it even helps us appreciate Anakin's fall a bit which was all too easy in Revenge. Kylo explains he is being torn apart inside and needs to stop the pain. He has to choose a side.

One thing though. When he's soeskong to Vader he says "show me again, show me one more" or something like that. Is kylo conversing with Anakin?? Is he seeing visions?

[The Unknown Poster]

It's not that I didn't like Ren's style, just that it was more hack-and-slash than what they usually showed. It seemed like a Knight with a big, 2-handed broadsword instead of a fencing style of fighting. My favourite lightsaber duel is still the opening volley of Obi-Wan/Vader I in Revenge of the Sith.

Yes, I believe the lightsaber they showed was Luke's first one which used to be Anakin's. In Return of the Jedi he had a green blade.

I think Kylo's sword fighting made sense. It's more simple and barbaric. If you remember even Luke was not a sophisticated swordsman in Jedi. It makes sense that perhaps the ballet style dramatic sword play is a lost art.

[The Unknown Poster]

Here's a fun fact. The storm trooper that Rey used the Jedi mind trick on was Daniel Craig.

And why a final scene. I long assumed the last shot would be Luke pulling back his hood. But that wordless exchange between Rey and Luke was tremendous.

[johnzo]

My favourite lightsaber duel is still the opening volley of Obi-Wan/Vader I in Revenge of the Sith.

The Phantom Menace was so awful bad terrible but I have to admit that I really like Darth Maul's moves. From a pure watching-humans-do-stunts level, I think that's my favorite. The Luke / Vader ones were better for actually having emotion and dramatic weight to them. The swordfighting in those scenes is really kind of secondary, the important and cool stuff is the conversations they have while they're swordfighting.

[Logan007]

I'm just going to make a few points, still going over everything I saw in my head, but I enjoyed the movie to say the least.

Firstly, they never state or indicate Kylo is a master. He should have a lot more sabre training for sure considering he's been training for 15 years or so. But even Snoke says he needs to complete Kylo's training. That and the fact that he was hurt was probably why he did so poorly. Finn was probably trained with that same weapon that other storm trooper was trained with hence his ability to use the saber. And Rey was also very good at fighting with her staff, so some of that skill obviously transferred to fighting with the saber.

Rey is not a Solo kid. I think Han or Leia would have said something to her if she was. I'm hoping she's Luke's daughter. Someone also stated she might be a descendant of Palpatine. When they said that it made a light pop over my head. When I was watching the movie, I noticed how Rey fought with a lightsaber. She stabbed a lot. The only other person who I've seen fight that way was Palpatine. Again just a thought and I hope it's not true.

Anyway. Seeing it again Sunday with the family this time. But so far it ranks 4th for me behind Empire, Jedi and Hope.

[The Unknown Poster]

I agree about Maul. His character having a more exotic style made perfect sense.

The prequels really made saber fights boring. All style no substance. Even the Anakin/Kenobi fight just went on and on and on and had that terrible climax (high ground). Bleh

Force Awakens has a ton of missing info. Lots of back story to fill in for the expanded universe and future films.

[The Unknown Poster]

The knowing glances around Rey could also be that Han and Leia know she's lukes kid

The issue is that she was old enough when abandoned to remember her parents. And if she is Luke's then it opens up the question of her mother. Also when she heard Luke's name she said she thought he was a myth.

But you have to assume she's "someone" other than just Rey. She has the right look to be a Skywalker as far as Padme and Leia go.

I'm curious about Von Sydow. I guess he could be no one but why would he have the missing map piece? He knows the resistance ofcourse. He referred to Leia being "royalty" to him (implying he knew her as Princess).

He knows Kylo and who he is. Kylo knows him "look how old you've become". And he refers to family. Has to be "someone".

[johnzo]

(edit: never mind)

[tacklewasher]

Spoiler

Biggest surprise was killing Solo. Not from a storyline point of view, but I'd have thought it would be easier to keep Ford on the project than Fisher.

 

 

Enjoyed the movie a lot.

[The Unknown Poster]

EW has an article up with some cool tidbits I didn't catch upon first viewing

Rey's vision contains dialogue from Yoda and Kenobi. They had frank Oz record new dialogue but used old dialogue 

for Kenobi they used both Alec Guiness and Ewen Macgregor. Very cool. I didn't catch it but Kenobi says "Rey....these are your first steps". 

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/20/jj-abrams-reveals-obi-wan-and-yoda-are-star-wars-force-awakens

[Logan007]

I saw that before I went to see it again today. But you can barely hear the voices. I did hear Alec Guiness say Rey though. 

 

Enjoyed the the movie more the second time. 

 

Another reason I think Rey is Luke's daughter, when Kylo was interrogating her, he said "I see an ocean surrounding an island" which is where Luke is. Not that that is resounding evidence but I just think she is. 

[bigg jay]

Yep, they had Guinness saying "Rey" and Ewen McGregor saying "these are your first steps."

I'm also on the Luke is her father bandwagon.

[The Unknown Poster]

Could Snoke tempt our heroes with resurrection of the dead?  If he is Darth Plaegius which is an interesting idea. And would tie it to the prequels. A being so powerful he resurrected himself?

 

there has to be a greater twist than just Rey redeeming Kylo like Luke did for Vader. 

I also wonder if they'd "resurrect" Vader. Kylo's seemed to imply he had been speaking with Vader. Which even if he had seen his ghost it makes little sense for Anakin to have an evil ghost. But perhaps snoke is tricking him. 

there have been rumors of Hayden Christianson in Episode VIII. And certainly we'd love to see force ghosts of Yoda and Kenobi appearing to Luke....perhaps Anakin as well?

[Jacquie]

10 hours ago, tacklewasher said:

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Biggest surprise was killing Solo. Not from a storyline point of view, but I'd have thought it would be easier to keep Ford on the project than Fisher.

 

Harrison Ford being 73 years old might have something to do with it. 

[The Unknown Poster]

Well we can assume Ford wanted out as he did back in the originals. But his fate serves the story. It had to happen. And there is already speculation he might appear in the next film so I don't think his age is an issue. 

 

[The Unknown Poster]

Breaking records

 

With a record-breaking $238 million opening weekend at box offices in the U.S. and Canada, in addition to a near-record $279 million overseas, “Star Wars: The Force Awakens” isn’t just a hit, but the spark Disney needed for years of sequels, toys, videogames, television series, theme-park attractions and more that it is planning or already producing.

The “Star Wars” sequel blasted the prior record for a domestic movie opening of $209 million set by “Jurassic World” in June.

The film, which cost a little more than $200 million to produce, is poised to gross well over $1 billion, and could go much higher, particularly with people expected to take time off from work during the holidays.

[Logan007]

Crazy how much it made. 

so much to speculate about over the next year and a half. What worries me, sort of, is that Arian Johnson does weird stuff in his movies. Even JJ said his movie will have weird aspects to it. I just hope it's good weird. And if Luke is her dad, I hope they don't recycle the, "I am your father" line. 

[The Unknown Poster]

I would think Johnson will have some set parameters to work within and then be given some creative freedom to make his film look and feel a bit different.  But the transitions, the narrative...I think it will be in keeping with the tone set forth in this one.  I recall them saying it was important to set all that.  In fact, I think Lawrence Kasdan is done after the Han Solo film and did not work on the Episode VIII script.  He helped find the voice of the new trilogy and now isnt needed (or so they say, I would have kept him).

Im not sold on Abrams so while I'd like to give him his credit, I wonder how much Kathleen Kennedy played into setting limits and how much Kasdan's contributions created that voice.  Because this film seems so respectful of the originals and embraced that history and canon and the "beats" of the original so much in such a way that the Star Trek films didnt, it makes me wonder.