Bit of a controversy in Hamilton right now.  There was a 4th quarter offside call on a goal line stand against the Tiger Cats in the Toronto game.

 

 

You can see the Hamilton players hand clearly over the goal line which means he was offside and in the neutral zone.  You can also see Barker behind the ref.  This is against league rules in that he can't be standing there, that far away from the Toronto bench.  There is concern that there was "coaching" going on, that he was talking to the ref, pointing out the offside, etc.  Otherwise it might not have been called as it is very marginal.

 

http://scratchingpost.thespec.com/2014/10/ticats-owner-cfl-officiating-not-good-enough.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+thespec%2FDRCe+%28The+Scratching+Post%29

 

Here was Bob Young's post in the Ticat forum.

 

 

 

Unfortunately the other teams are working hard to get better too. So all teams need to win the occasional close game to be successful. The debate here is whether the CFL officiating is good enough to ensure that the outcome of the close games is fair. I would argue the CFL officiating is good and getting better, but still not good enough.

The biggest "controversy" is not so much the call itself, but is the Toronto GM coaching the sideline judge during the play. The result was the official called a very marginal penalty (we've been looking for a similar call on a marginal goal line hand infraction and cannot find one. Every other similar offside we can find has the player's hand offside by four or five inches or more. At the very least there should have been two penalties. The other for objectionable conduct to Toronto for their GM's blatant and successful attempt to influence an official on the field. And, yes, our rules and precedent allow for such a penalty.

As you might expect we (and the other teams) provide loud and pointed feedback to the League office whenever there is an officiating mistake. But the teams seldom publicly comment on these because over a season they tend to even out. The difference here is the Toronto GM's role. I'm looking forward to hearing how the League will ensure this -never- happens again.

 

The officiating in the CFL is not good enough.  But he shouldn't be spouting off publicly about it.  I hope he is fined for doing it (not that it will matter to him, he can easily cover the fine).  This stuff needs to stay behind closed doors.  Calling out your officials publicly won't fix the problem.  It makes it worse.  Officiating is already a hard, thankless job.  Don't need this stuff piled on top of it.

 

Barker should be fined too.   It is ridiculous he is way down ther eon the field.    In the BC game last weekend, Benevides was always running out onto the field, 10 - 20 yards in looking and talking to the officials.  He should be fined or assessed a penalty for this too.  Stay on your side line on off the field of play.

 

CFL needs to tighten up on stuff like this.

It looks like I'm on the other side of the argument yet again.  

 

I want penalties to be called when they happen, no matter if they effect the play or not.  

 

The players have more control over the penalties than the refs do.  Don't want a hands to the face penalty called?  Don't do it.  Don't want holding called?  Don't hold.  Don't like PI away from the play?  Don't interfere with the receiver.  Don't like blocking penalties on returns?  Don't take the penalty.

 

The refs job is hard enough without trying to figure out if the penalty, which is cheating BTW, is going to or has affected the play.  I want the team that plays the best to win, not the one who cheats the best.

 

I agree. The game needs to be black and white (no pun intended) for the refs. The less discretion they have, the better. I'd rather see them start catching more of the holding and stuff they currently seem to miss and actually call MORE penalties. If everything was being called, maybe the players would stop trying to push their luck as frequently. Maybe the answer is as simple as paying the refs more so they can spend less time at their full-time job and more time at clinics or seminars or whatever's going to help them improve.

To me, one of the biggest things this year is that penalties were absolutely just killing offensive rhythms. And a lot of it was ticky tack stuff.

I think if you polled fans, not many of us would want to see big plays called back by silly ticky tack penalties.

I don't think I've thought this through enough to say it's the best idea, but I'd propose something like this - if there is an infraction on the play, unless the penalty being committed directly contributes to the result of the play, then I don't want to see it wipe out the play.

Best example I can give is that huge completion to Romby Bryant that was called back by a hands to the face penalty. What I'd ideally like to see happen there? Apply the penalty after the gain. It was illegal but it had no direct impact on the play itself. So if Romby scores there ... put the Bombers on the 10. The only caveat I'd put on this is that objectionable conduct (facemask, etc) penalties would wipe out plays entirely.

I've just seen too many big plays called back by stupid penalties that took place WAY away from the play. Nobody wants to see a 50 yard catch and run called back because there was offensive holding on the entirely opposite side of the field. Not with the way our referees throw flags. It was just painful this year.

That's giving way too much responsibility to officials who quite honestly are already overwhelmed. At what point does a penalty affect the result of the play or not (after yards gained provision already exists)? It's the slipperiest of slopes IMO and I don't think many coaches or GM's would go for it.

All we want from the refs is consistency. PI is laughable, even with the reviews they put in. Too much of a judgement call and what is PI one time (even when reviewed) may not be PI another time. Holding is pretty arbitrary as well. Call the game consistently and players and coaches will learn what is a foul and what isn't and can stop doing things that cross the line. (unless they're Kuale, then they'll just keep doing stupid things and whine about being marked)

 

 

It looks like I'm on the other side of the argument yet again.  

 

I want penalties to be called when they happen, no matter if they effect the play or not.  

 

The players have more control over the penalties than the refs do.  Don't want a hands to the face penalty called?  Don't do it.  Don't want holding called?  Don't hold.  Don't like PI away from the play?  Don't interfere with the receiver.  Don't like blocking penalties on returns?  Don't take the penalty.

 

The refs job is hard enough without trying to figure out if the penalty, which is cheating BTW, is going to or has affected the play.  I want the team that plays the best to win, not the one who cheats the best.

 

I want penalties to be called too. I just don't want it to affect the flow of the game and IMO, it does. Bombers aside, this has been the lowest quality of CFL football in quite some time. A lot of that has to do with the penalty parade.

 

Something has to change and this is just a compromise that benefits the fans.

 

 

If penalties are called and applied CONSISTENTLY (and that's the biggest issue in the CFL) then players will learn and adapt .. as it stands right now, players don't know what to expect from an officiating crew from week to week .. or game to game ..

 

I'm of the mind that if it's a penalty .. throw a flag.

 

 

Tickytac is tickytac.  Might as well put a penny on the top of the center's head before each snap.  If it falls off - illegal procedure flag, automatic.  He moved.  A rule has been broken.

To me, one of the biggest things this year is that penalties were absolutely just killing offensive rhythms. And a lot of it was ticky tack stuff.

I think if you polled fans, not many of us would want to see big plays called back by silly ticky tack penalties.

I don't think I've thought this through enough to say it's the best idea, but I'd propose something like this - if there is an infraction on the play, unless the penalty being committed directly contributes to the result of the play, then I don't want to see it wipe out the play.

Best example I can give is that huge completion to Romby Bryant that was called back by a hands to the face penalty. What I'd ideally like to see happen there? Apply the penalty after the gain. It was illegal but it had no direct impact on the play itself. So if Romby scores there ... put the Bombers on the 10. The only caveat I'd put on this is that objectionable conduct (facemask, etc) penalties would wipe out plays entirely.

I've just seen too many big plays called back by stupid penalties that took place WAY away from the play. Nobody wants to see a 50 yard catch and run called back because there was offensive holding on the entirely opposite side of the field. Not with the way our referees throw flags. It was just painful this year.

I like this idea. There would be some challenges with implementing it, but I definetely like the concept.

 

To me, one of the biggest things this year is that penalties were absolutely just killing offensive rhythms. And a lot of it was ticky tack stuff.

I think if you polled fans, not many of us would want to see big plays called back by silly ticky tack penalties.

I don't think I've thought this through enough to say it's the best idea, but I'd propose something like this - if there is an infraction on the play, unless the penalty being committed directly contributes to the result of the play, then I don't want to see it wipe out the play.

Best example I can give is that huge completion to Romby Bryant that was called back by a hands to the face penalty. What I'd ideally like to see happen there? Apply the penalty after the gain. It was illegal but it had no direct impact on the play itself. So if Romby scores there ... put the Bombers on the 10. The only caveat I'd put on this is that objectionable conduct (facemask, etc) penalties would wipe out plays entirely.

I've just seen too many big plays called back by stupid penalties that took place WAY away from the play. Nobody wants to see a 50 yard catch and run called back because there was offensive holding on the entirely opposite side of the field. Not with the way our referees throw flags. It was just painful this year.

That's giving way too much responsibility to officials who quite honestly are already overwhelmed. At what point does a penalty affect the result of the play or not (after yards gained provision already exists)? It's the slipperiest of slopes IMO and I don't think many coaches or GM's would go for it.

 

 

I was going to say that. Giving them more discretion to judge whether a penalty affected the play or not doesn't strike me as something they are not capable of doing. Call the penalties consistently and the players will learn where the line is. The issue this year seems to be the inconsistency of calls.

It's no coincidence that the quality of refereeing has dropped since Higgins left to coach the Als.

Too much reliance on replay by the CFL IMO. They use the replay to do their jobs on the field for them and they got lazy. Oh don't worry about missing a call, we'll catch it on replay. complete and utter horseshit. Let's get rid of the replays entirely and I bet you see more consistency within the game in the reffing. 

CFL.ca Staff

TORONTO -- The Canadian Football League announced today two executive fines.

Toronto Argonauts General Manager Jim Barker has been fined $2,500 for violating the league’s sideline policy by positioning himself on the goal line directly behind an official, and attempting to communicate with that official, during play #130 of last Saturday’s game between the Argos and Hamilton Tiger-Cats.

Barker has also been informed that he will not be permitted on the sidelines during play for the remainder the Argos’ 2014 regular season and post season.

Hamilton Tiger-Cat Owner Bob Young has been fined $10,000 for public comments criticizing CFL officiating.

Wow...cost Young $10,000 to make his point and banish Barker to the stands...pretty good deal if you are rich.

Reffing has been and continues to be a joke.. It has to be corrected, I realize they are only human but even bringing in reviews has not resolved the biggest problem... Consistency. PI, holding, offsides,neutral zone infractions and even rough play/RTP have all been called differently by different Reffing crews.. A lot like the strike zone in MLB.. it used to be all over the place but has become more consistent in recent years..

I'm pretty sure that's what all of us want... Define the calls, explain to the refs how they should call them and reference a shitload of video on the plays that need to be called... I don't know why this is such an unattainable goal..

It's no coincidence that the quality of refereeing has dropped since Higgins left to coach the Als.

Lets be honest, it was still crap though. We've gone from a moist pile of crap with a few chunks in it to full on diarrhea this season.

Yeah, imagine if someone told you a year ago that the refereeing was actually going to get WORSE. No one would have believed that possible. But it did!

 

I place a lot of the blame on the ridiculous PI video review rule. I never tire of pointing out that it's become just as much of a farce as I predicted it would.

We've gone from a moist pile of crap with a few chunks in it to full on diarrhea

And this ^ Is the birth of, "The Perfect Description".

Nobody should get fined for calling out the CFL Officiating as garbage.  If that happens, then Free speech is DEAD.  That is a good thing for Bob Young to do, though I think he should've been harsher on the CFL for that.

 

As for Barker, yeah he should be suspended from coming down on the field of play.  Obviously nobody could tell whether or not he was telling the ref what to do, but if he was, then yes that does deserve some sort of penalty.  The ref should be penalized some sort of fine too though for letting the guy tell him what to do if that's the case.