17to85 Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 even with the right people Etchevarys D would still be weak to the run. The CFL field is too big to take everything away, there are always gaps for a team that can give their qb time. Etch just tries to take away one and gamble that teams can't run consistently enough to beat you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigseye Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 even with the right people Etchevarys D would still be weak to the run. The CFL field is too big to take everything away, there are always gaps for a team that can give their qb time. Etch just tries to take away one and gamble that teams can't run consistently enough to beat you. Well not according to O'Shea, not if they execute and cancel their gaps, their defence should be no more vulnerable than anyone else's, so that only leaves personnel not doing their jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Dee Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 Plugin a jumbo tackle and real MLB'er and problem solved. If Etch is going to be so inflexible then O'Shea needs to step in. But O'Shea supports his DC completely and fully believes the coaching they are doing will overcome the mistakes being made and there is evidence that backs up this stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 even with the right people Etchevarys D would still be weak to the run. The CFL field is too big to take everything away, there are always gaps for a team that can give their qb time. Etch just tries to take away one and gamble that teams can't run consistently enough to beat you. Well not according to O'Shea, not if they execute and cancel their gaps, their defence should be no more vulnerable than anyone else's, so that only leaves personnel not doing their jobs. Etch D basically relies on top talent making up for his schemes... works well when you have Williams, Lloyd and Lucas in their prime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigseye Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 even with the right people Etchevarys D would still be weak to the run. The CFL field is too big to take everything away, there are always gaps for a team that can give their qb time. Etch just tries to take away one and gamble that teams can't run consistently enough to beat you. Well not according to O'Shea, not if they execute and cancel their gaps, their defence should be no more vulnerable than anyone else's, so that only leaves personnel not doing their jobs. Etch D basically relies on top talent making up for his schemes... works well when you have Williams, Lloyd and Lucas in their prime Exactly, still comes down to the men in the uniforms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuranBoldenRules Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 Burke uses conventional players and gap control, and his defences are traditionally awful against the run. They were here too other than a handful of games when the D basically completely shutdown the opposing team. It's not hard to run the ball, almost everyone is defending the pass and sacrificing run defense. If we gave the ball to a good running back we'd be laughing too. blitzmore 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigseye Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 Burke uses conventional players and gap control, and his defences are traditionally awful against the run. They were here too other than a handful of games when the D basically completely shutdown the opposing team. It's not hard to run the ball, almost everyone is defending the pass and sacrificing run defense. If we gave the ball to a good running back we'd be laughing too. I think someone just implied that Messam is a good running back, better duck. James 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 Plugin a jumbo tackle and real MLB'er and problem solved. If Etch is going to be so inflexible then O'Shea needs to step in. use a formation that doesn't give teams running options and problem solved no need to worry about size... As long as Etchevary is here we are going to be a team that has a weakness against the run that's just the way it is. Been his MO the entire time. You knew what you were getting when you hired him we just have to live with it and hope that it works in the long run. There's plenty of reason to worry about size... I saw Messam dragging guys for 5 yards before he was tackled last game... Sask O-line was killing us pushing Thomas around like a boy amongst men. Dunn at WLB is another problem in my mind.... A DB just doesnt have the tackling power that a LB has... Wild is a WLB, not a MLB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 Burke uses conventional players and gap control, and his defences are traditionally awful against the run. They were here too other than a handful of games when the D basically completely shutdown the opposing team. It's not hard to run the ball, almost everyone is defending the pass and sacrificing run defense. If we gave the ball to a good running back we'd be laughing too. I believe we have the horses to be able to stop both the run and the pass in this league. With our secondary there is no reason we cant have a front seven that is capable of Rushing/containing the QB, as well as being able to stuff the run. we just need to plug the right guys in the right spots... Somthing Etch seems to be to stubborn to do All we need is a hulking NT like a Khalif Mitchell and this defense could be dominant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 Plugin a jumbo tackle and real MLB'er and problem solved. If Etch is going to be so inflexible then O'Shea needs to step in. But O'Shea supports his DC completely and fully believes the coaching they are doing will overcome the mistakes being made and there is evidence that backs up this stand. I disagree- there is plenty of evidence from the games against Toronto and Sask . Both teams seemed to know that the Bombers were vulnerable to runs up the middle and saved the ploy until the 4th quarter when the game was on the line. Then they pounded it up the middle, ate up the clock and scored to win the games. There is no reason to believe that Sunday will be any different- if anything, the loss of Wild makes the situation even worse. Kuale is a major downgrade from Wild. James 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jpan85 Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 The four bad games against the run have really over shadowed the 6 games where they did not give up much yardage. Plus technically have only had one 100 yard rusher against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 The four bad games against the run have really over shadowed the 6 games where they did not give up much yardage. Plus technically have only had one 100 yard rusher against them. I wonder how this matches up with Sears being in the lineup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 The four bad games against the run have really over shadowed the 6 games where they did not give up much yardage. Plus technically have only had one 100 yard rusher against them. Its not just the yardage given up- it comes down to giving up the yardage at critical times. Had the yards been gained in the first half when the game was still developing, it would have been a different things altogether, but the yards were gained at the end of the game when it really mattered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatty Liver Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 even with the right people Etchevarys D would still be weak to the run. The CFL field is too big to take everything away, there are always gaps for a team that can give their qb time. Etch just tries to take away one and gamble that teams can't run consistently enough to beat you. Well not according to O'Shea, not if they execute and cancel their gaps, their defence should be no more vulnerable than anyone else's, so that only leaves personnel not doing their jobs. Doug Brown would disagree with you on this point. On the post-game show he was quite explicit in pointing out that the players did not stand a chance of stopping the run due to Etch's unbalanced positioning. Prior to the snap the RB just has to look to see which side of the line is loaded and go the other way. Later this season the number of losses attributed to this defect will be tallied and pinned to Etch's behind. Is it 2 and counting, or 3 and counting??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 even with the right people Etchevarys D would still be weak to the run. The CFL field is too big to take everything away, there are always gaps for a team that can give their qb time. Etch just tries to take away one and gamble that teams can't run consistently enough to beat you. Well not according to O'Shea, not if they execute and cancel their gaps, their defence should be no more vulnerable than anyone else's, so that only leaves personnel not doing their jobs. Doug Brown would disagree with you on this point. On the post-game show he was quite explicit in pointing out that the players did not stand a chance of stopping the run due to Etch's unbalanced positioning. Prior to the snap the RB just has to look to see which side of the line is loaded and go the other way. Later this season the number of losses attributed to this defect will be tallied and pinned to Etch's behind. Is it 2 and counting, or 3 and counting??? Again, we knew exactly what we were getting with Etch... starts strong, teams figure him out and he re-invents his D late in the season. We've been figured out. James 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatty Liver Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 even with the right people Etchevarys D would still be weak to the run. The CFL field is too big to take everything away, there are always gaps for a team that can give their qb time. Etch just tries to take away one and gamble that teams can't run consistently enough to beat you. Well not according to O'Shea, not if they execute and cancel their gaps, their defence should be no more vulnerable than anyone else's, so that only leaves personnel not doing their jobs. Doug Brown would disagree with you on this point. On the post-game show he was quite explicit in pointing out that the players did not stand a chance of stopping the run due to Etch's unbalanced positioning. Prior to the snap the RB just has to look to see which side of the line is loaded and go the other way. Later this season the number of losses attributed to this defect will be tallied and pinned to Etch's behind. Is it 2 and counting, or 3 and counting??? Again, we knew exactly what we were getting with Etch... starts strong, teams figure him out and he re-invents his D late in the season. We've been figured out. I remember reading an endless discussion about this on the Riders forum just after the Bombers hired Etch. Speculation ranged from a players revolt over schemes to Etch being reduced to the role of assistant DC. for the playoff games. Riders did well in both seasons he was their DC so it's hard to say if he makes adjustments himself or if he is always reigned in. It'd be nice if he showed a little wisdom in learning from past mistakes but there doesn't seem to be much evidence of that. Banjo Bowl is going to expose him to increased wrath if the D. is exploited in the same method especially if the Bombers lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 even with the right people Etchevarys D would still be weak to the run. The CFL field is too big to take everything away, there are always gaps for a team that can give their qb time. Etch just tries to take away one and gamble that teams can't run consistently enough to beat you. Well not according to O'Shea, not if they execute and cancel their gaps, their defence should be no more vulnerable than anyone else's, so that only leaves personnel not doing their jobs. Doug Brown would disagree with you on this point. On the post-game show he was quite explicit in pointing out that the players did not stand a chance of stopping the run due to Etch's unbalanced positioning. Prior to the snap the RB just has to look to see which side of the line is loaded and go the other way. Later this season the number of losses attributed to this defect will be tallied and pinned to Etch's behind. Is it 2 and counting, or 3 and counting??? Again, we knew exactly what we were getting with Etch... starts strong, teams figure him out and he re-invents his D late in the season. We've been figured out. I remember reading an endless discussion about this on the Riders forum just after the Bombers hired Etch. Speculation ranged from a players revolt to Etch being reduced to the role of assistant DC. for the playoff games. Riders did well in both seasons he was their DC so it's hard to say if he makes adjustments himself or if he is always reigned in. It'd be nice if he showed a little wisdom in learning from past mistakes but there doesn't seem to be much evidence of that. Banjo Bowl is going to expose him to increased wrath if the D. is exploited in the same method especially if the Bombers lose. Totally agree - if Messam runs over us in the fourth quarter AGAIN, something needs to be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 This is a scheme & personnel issue. Our lbers are undersized. We are soft in the middle & teams exploit that. If we load 8 in the box it just opens things up for other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 This is a scheme & personnel issue. Our lbers are undersized. We are soft in the middle & teams exploit that. If we load 8 in the box it just opens things up for other things. our linebackers are undersized because that's what the scheme wants... we are soft in the middle because that's how the scheme is drawn up... it's simply put the way Etchevary operates and we all knew this was going to play out like it has when the guy was hired. Everyone who wasn't just trying to spin things into sunshine and rainbows knew this was going to happen, why are we trying to spin it into a player issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfranc Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 Etch has long maintained that CFL teams won't beat you with the run because they simply don't have the patience to stick with it for four quarters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatty Liver Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 Etch has long maintained that CFL teams won't beat you with the run because they simply don't have the patience to stick with it for four quarters. Etch is assuming an offence is firing on all cylinders and they have built a good sized lead, which has not been the case this year even when the Bombers have won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 Etch has long maintained that CFL teams won't beat you with the run because they simply don't have the patience to stick with it for four quarters. And there's some merit to what he says. The running game is hard to rely on and win with in the CFL, however Saskatchewan and Calgary currently rely on a strong running game backed up by a solid passing game so the division at this time is not a good one to use this philosophy in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 Etch has long maintained that CFL teams won't beat you with the run because they simply don't have the patience to stick with it for four quarters. And I'll bet that Etch invested heavily in Blackberry stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USABomberfan Posted September 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 Let's do something to stop this run. Load the box now and make them throw every down the rest of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Duper Negatron Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 We...gave up 16 points on defence. Mr Dee and SPuDS 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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