http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/teen-spared-jail-for-huge-fire-at-stadium-264522991.html

 

 

As an enlightened society we have to temper our gut reaction and desire to punish with trying to do the right thing.  If you take a 15 year old and put him in adult prison until he's 30+, guess who comes out of prison?  On the other hand, there are some pretty vicious 15 year olds that deserve that level of punishment. 

 

The other argument is mental health.  These kids that plot or commit serious crimes clearly have a screw loose.  Can they be rehabilitated?  Will they always have that lack of remorse or guilt or sense of consequences within them?  Can they be taught to control it?

 

A large population of our prisons, including youth are people suffering from FASD.  If you know anything about that, you can immediately see how and why they committ crimes and its a horrible disease that is very difficult to overcome.  They said this arson kid has reduced capacity which I bet is FASD.  Throwing him in jail wont accomplish anything except introduce him to even worse influences.

Not sure what the Dutch model is but I love Old Dutch chips so I'm in.

Not sure what the Dutch model is but I love Old Dutch chips so I'm in.

Old Dutch chips...originated in St. Paul's, Minnesota...not so dutch.  

in fairness to Iso, all Albertans feel that public hangings should be mandatory for any and all crimes...

in fairness to Iso, all Albertans feel that public hangings should be mandatory for any and all crimes...

I'm a Manitoban originally just like you.... You're in Olds, AB, right?  I don't like hangings but I do think the kid who set the fire needs to be held more accountable. As far as the kid who stabbed a stranger in calgary, it really wasn't meant to be a comparison at all. Just brought it up as it was newsworthy & definitly shocking. People here are saying that jail does not work. That incarceration teaches kids to be criminal.  That it hardens them as they get older so they reoffend. So, my question was, if you read my original post about that boy who knifed the stranger was.... what do people here think the justice system should do with him if they believe jail time does not work?

Starting fires is one of the precursors to those associated with serial killers. The others include bed wetting and torturing animals.

 

in fairness to Iso, all Albertans feel that public hangings should be mandatory for any and all crimes...

I'm a Manitoban originally just like you.... You're in Olds, AB, right?  I don't like hangings but I do think the kid who set the fire needs to be held more accountable. As far as the kid who stabbed a stranger in calgary, it really wasn't meant to be a comparison at all. Just brought it up as it was newsworthy & definitly shocking. People here are saying that jail does not work. That incarceration teaches kids to be criminal.  That it hardens them as they get older so they reoffend. So, my question was, if you read my original post about that boy who knifed the stranger was.... what do people here think the justice system should do with him if they believe jail time does not work?

 

 

It doesn't have to be "No jail for anyone" vs. "Jail for everyone".  Sometimes jail is the right choice and sometimes not.

Starting fires is one of the precursors to those associated with serial killers. The others include bed wetting and torturing animals.

 

All children who wet the bed or start fires should then be incarcerated for life.  Can't risk them becoming serial killers.

 

Starting fires is one of the precursors to those associated with serial killers. The others include bed wetting and torturing animals.

 

All children who wet the bed or start fires should then be incarcerated for life.  Can't risk them becoming serial killers.

 

Why do you have to be so generalistic & sensitive when you get into a discussion? Holy ****. The guy was just making a point. And he's right. Those are some of the characteristics. Especially if a kid is 16 & wetting the bed, then that person has a problem, not if he's 8. And the torture of animals. Although it is safe to say that not everyone will become a serial killer who does those things.

 

 

Starting fires is one of the precursors to those associated with serial killers. The others include bed wetting and torturing animals.

 

All children who wet the bed or start fires should then be incarcerated for life.  Can't risk them becoming serial killers.

 

Why do you have to be so generalistic & sensitive when you get into a discussion? Holy ****. The guy was just making a point. And he's right. Those are some of the characteristics. Especially if a kid is 16 & wetting the bed, then that person has a problem, not if he's 8. And the torture of animals. Although it is safe to say that not everyone will become a serial killer who does those things.

 

 

I'm not sensitive at all... Why are you being so mean to me?

What are the precursors for people who end up arguing with strangers on the internet everyday?

What are the precursors for people who end up arguing with strangers on the internet everyday?

Nose picking.

 

...ok I just said that because at the time I was picking my nose, so that's all I could think of.

What are the precursors for people who end up arguing with strangers on the internet everyday?

 

Teething

You cant argue absolutes.  Im a law & order guy but I spent time within the Youth Centre (not as an inmate) and I can assure you, there are kids there that range from little assholes that need severe consequences to good kids who made a bad decision, to bad home life, to FASD etc etc. 

 

Adults are different in the sense they understand consequences etc a lot more.  But dont over-estimate a kids decision making abilities.  When I was a kid, peer pressure was skipping class or wandering around in under-construction houses.  Its worse now.

 

Oh who didn't like some fires when they were a kid. Boys will be boys.

I hope you're kidding. They gave all the reasons not to punish the kid but I didn't see one reason why they shouldn't. I'm a strong believer in kids needing to be accountable for their actions. Indeed, adults, all of us. 

 

 

 

Well.. I might disagree if the kid was 12.. but the accused was 17 SEVENTEEN

 

Just telling what happened here in Calgary & how shocking it was. Down boy. 

Yeah but it has nothing to do with this.  You're comparing someone who willfully killed someone, to someone who was just fooling around with a little fire that got out of hand and if there was loss of life, it would have been accidental, but there wasn't so...  apples and oranges man.  You're bringing up an invalid point.

 

17 year old that knocked over a can of gas in a shed full of wood pallets? 

 

WTF? a small fire... 

 

Pretty sure most kids know the consequences of lighting fires when they are much younger then that.. Kid would had been in grade 12 if he had stayed in school.

 

mental issues asside, the other kids would/should had known better.

Did you miss the part where he was described as having reduced capacity?

You cant argue absolutes.  Im a law & order guy but I spent time within the Youth Centre (not as an inmate) and I can assure you, there are kids there that range from little assholes that need severe consequences to good kids who made a bad decision, to bad home life, to FASD etc etc. 

 

Adults are different in the sense they understand consequences etc a lot more.  But dont over-estimate a kids decision making abilities.  When I was a kid, peer pressure was skipping class or wandering around in under-construction houses.  Its worse now.

 

Under the pretense of bored and looking for something to do during my adolescent years, I could probably point to a dozen different times where fate could have gone in the opposite direction and I end up in jail or dead from something that started out as a goof.  And by all normal measures I will not be mistaken for either Evel Knievel or Al Capone.

 

People who are not grown-ups will often not act grown up.

I started off with arson ,the bed wetting did not start until my 20's. Serial killing sounds like a lot of hard work and planning. Not my strong suit.

Think I will just stick to pissing myself.

 

You cant argue absolutes.  Im a law & order guy but I spent time within the Youth Centre (not as an inmate) and I can assure you, there are kids there that range from little assholes that need severe consequences to good kids who made a bad decision, to bad home life, to FASD etc etc. 

 

Adults are different in the sense they understand consequences etc a lot more.  But dont over-estimate a kids decision making abilities.  When I was a kid, peer pressure was skipping class or wandering around in under-construction houses.  Its worse now.

 

Under the pretense of bored and looking for something to do during my adolescent years, I could probably point to a dozen different times where fate could have gone in the opposite direction and I end up in jail or dead from something that started out as a goof.  And by all normal measures I will not be mistaken for either Evel Knievel or Al Capone.

 

People who are not grown-ups will often not act grown up.

 

 

Exactly!  I could have gone to jail several times.  But I didn't... never got caught, never got punished, now a university graduate with a great career.  You think I would have gotten this far if I had been tossed in jail at 16?  No chance.

Who knows, you smartened up. Not everybody does. I still say you do the crime, you should do the time. 

Who knows, you smartened up. Not everybody does. I still say you do the crime, you should do the time. 

Like the heir to Johnson & Johnson- abused his son for 4 years and got 6 months probation?

 

Who knows, you smartened up. Not everybody does. I still say you do the crime, you should do the time. 

Like the heir to Johnson & Johnson- abused his son for 4 years and got 6 months probation?

 

Probably bought his way out of prison.  

******* and child molesters all in one thread? What a demented turn of events lol..

Who knows, you smartened up. Not everybody does. I still say you do the crime, you should do the time. 

 

Nah, I"m a liberal. Everyone makes mistakes. Of course, the crime has to be realistic. I mean, to me, taking a gun and shooting someone is not a 'mistake' but an arson can be seen as a misdemeanor if the perpetrator is remorseful, a first time offender, and in this case a person who has some mental challenges to begin with. I really don't believe, given the very very limited information I have, that jail time would serve this kid well. I'm sure the Judge would have acted appropriately if he thought it was warranted.

 

Now, if that poor kid went and did something that screwed with that Judges investments - I'm sure he'd be doing hard time in Stonewall for at least 5 years.