Bombers-RedBlacks Early Chat

[rebusrankin]

Given our issues with bigger receivers, Geno Lewis concerns me for this game.

[JuranBoldenRules]

17 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

Given our issues with bigger receivers, Geno Lewis concerns me for this game.

Any single one of their receivers on Jake Kelly or whoever we play at field corner is a bad time.

I'm hoping Cam Allen comes on.  Kelly might be better off at field corner just given the task of managing the deepest outside route instead of trying to read into backfield and make decisions.  He kept stopping his feet then trying to recover which was 3 deep balls, two catches, one for TD and his PI.

Athletically I think Kelly is a good prospect (yeah he's in year 3) but the processing clearly isn't there yet at game speed.

The most egregious roster management issue is that we're forcing a guy like Kelly out there when we only really need to play one Canadian on D.  The DL guys don't kill us as much as is talked about, but putting a guy out there to just be a mark for the opposition in the secondary is not good.

We've dressed 3 American LB's (aside from T Jones) to take about 70 reps in the past two games on D between them.  That's a bit less than half the snaps on D.  But we're dressing a secondary with no backups aside from our primary returner (who is not an outstanding nor experienced CFL DB) and using two Canadians in the secondary when we only need 1 on the entire D based on the number of Canadians we're starting on O.

So....beef up the OL with Americans, bring in another receiver/playmaker...beef up the secondary or interior DL with an American.  We can easily do two of these things.  It's crazy how we're utilizing (or not) our American roster spots.

Edited 9 hours ago by JuranBoldenRules

[Noeller]

I'm a fan of bringing Allen on at Safety... What does our secondary look like with him there? Who goes where?

[JuranBoldenRules]

4 minutes ago, Noeller said:

I'm a fan of bringing Allen on at Safety... What does our secondary look like with him there? Who goes where?

Personally I think he'll have to come on to play boundary corner with Nichols at half.

Kramdi at safety, Holm at field half, Lawson at field corner.  Kelly as the dime  I don't really think we should start Vaval, ideally wouldn't have to play him on D at all.

[rebusrankin]

@JuranBoldenRules, do you track defensive snaps? That's some interesting commentary in regards to how much our linebackers are playing.

It would be interesting if the CFL had data available for yardage given up by DBs when they are the primary cover on a player. I know it exists in the NFL. By the eye test, Bonds, Vaval and Kelly have all been targeted.

[JuranBoldenRules]

6 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

@JuranBoldenRules, do you track defensive snaps? That's some interesting commentary in regards to how much our linebackers are playing.

It would be interesting if the CFL had data available for yardage given up by DBs when they are the primary cover on a player. I know it exists in the NFL. By the eye test, Bonds, Vaval and Kelly have all been targeted.

I track it series by series, not as precisely as DT.  Probably the last game I'll be able to do it though because my season starts this week.

Kelly played basically that entire game...him, Kramdi and Griffin essentially functioned as the WIL/SAM/Safety but not always static in position.  Griffin most likely to be in the box or blitzing.

We had a lot of snaps with 4 Canadians on D.  Most with 3, some with 2.

We are starting 6 Canadians on O.  So we only need 1 Canadian on D.  Now if we have Canadians who are better than our Americans...ok.  Not sure Kelly is that.  Not sure Thomas is that.

Also no reason to start 6 Canadians on O if we're going into a game knowing we're going to play Jake Kelly the entire game on D.

But...not sure who the Americans would be we have ready to go.  Allen is an obvious one, Woodbey would be one but we're kind of loaded where he would fit in...but might be more useful than Ayres being able to play 2-3 spots on D.  Don't think we have anyone on O ready to go aside from Vanterpool when he gets healthy.

We don't have enough American players....which is a huge indictment on the past 2-3 training camps.

[TommyClements]

I’m confused as to why Kelly was on the field so much. Was he the dime? Was this always the plan or what the bombers had to do when Bonds went down and Vaval went in for him?

[JuranBoldenRules]

14 minutes ago, TommyClements said:

I’m confused as to why Kelly was on the field so much. Was he the dime? Was this always the plan or what the bombers had to do when Bonds went down and Vaval went in for him?

No Kelly was in from the start.  Bonds didn't go down until right before half.

They were essentially playing two deep safeties to shake up VA and try to negate the explosives.  They had Griffin playing more LB style SAM than DB style.  Worked for a quarter until they started running single verticals and posts at Kelly's side as an adjustment.

[Piggy 1]

19 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

No Kelly was in from the start.  Bonds didn't go down until right before half.

They were essentially playing two deep safeties to shake up VA and try to negate the explosives.  They had Griffin playing more LB style SAM than DB style.  Worked for a quarter until they started running single verticals and posts at Kelly's side as an adjustment.

Kelly looked lost.......

[Booch]

23 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

No Kelly was in from the start.  Bonds didn't go down until right before half.

They were essentially playing two deep safeties to shake up VA and try to negate the explosives.  They had Griffin playing more LB style SAM than DB style.  Worked for a quarter until they started running single verticals and posts at Kelly's side as an adjustment.

J.jones not seeing the field at all didnt help...he played a lot the previous game and helped immensely...didnt see much of him last night...why is the question

43 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

I track it series by series, not as precisely as DT.  Probably the last game I'll be able to do it though because my season starts this week.

Kelly played basically that entire game...him, Kramdi and Griffin essentially functioned as the WIL/SAM/Safety but not always static in position.  Griffin most likely to be in the box or blitzing.

We had a lot of snaps with 4 Canadians on D.  Most with 3, some with 2.

We are starting 6 Canadians on O.  So we only need 1 Canadian on D.  Now if we have Canadians who are better than our Americans...ok.  Not sure Kelly is that.  Not sure Thomas is that.

Also no reason to start 6 Canadians on O if we're going into a game knowing we're going to play Jake Kelly the entire game on D.

But...not sure who the Americans would be we have ready to go.  Allen is an obvious one, Woodbey would be one but we're kind of loaded where he would fit in...but might be more useful than Ayres being able to play 2-3 spots on D.  Don't think we have anyone on O ready to go aside from Vanterpool when he gets healthy.

We don't have enough American players....which is a huge indictment on the past 2-3 training camps.

Been saying for several yrs...our roster management....player reps and utilization of our guys for best impact has been wretched

Also I stand by my claim osh is heavily Canadian biased...and it hurts us...reason why too he won't utilize rules afforded to him...he doesn't like them...and was outspoken against them when originally implemented...talk about not putting team first over your bias...

[Goalie]

Part of me wants to see dru brown throw 6 TDs this week. A large part honestly. Cuz that decision right there is what is ******* this team right now and in the future cuz Strev and Wilson ain’t it. Brown showed more in 1.5 seasons than Strev and Wilson have shown now. (Strev ain’t a young guy either ) 

dude showed he was ready to take over for Zach. He was the next guy. When he played the O actually operated smoother it seemed. The decision to let him go was dumb and honestly, it would be sorta ironic if Dru lit us up and then **** hit the ceiling.  Honestly. I’d fire Walters if we lose next game and Dru lights us up so a large part of me hopes this happens cuz complacency is a problem here also. And if Wade and O’Shea agreed with it, they’d be gone too if I owned the team. If Wade was my president of football ops and Kyle was my gm and Osh was my head coach and dru brown absolutely lights us up this week, they would be president gm and coach of the Siberian Tigers. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Goalie

[Brandon]

12 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Part of me wants to see dru brown throw 6 TDs this week. A large part honestly. Cuz that decision right there is what is ******* this team right now and in the future cuz Strev and Wilson ain’t it. Brown showed more in 1.5 seasons than Strev and Wilson have shown now. (Strev ain’t a young guy either ) 

dude showed he was ready to take over for Zach. He was the next guy. When he played the O actually operated smoother it seemed. The decision to let him go was dumb and honestly, it would be sorta ironic if Dru lit us up and then **** hit the ceiling.  Honestly. I’d fire Walters if we lose next game and Dru lights us up so a large part of me hopes this happens cuz complacency is a problem here also. And if Wade and O’Shea agreed with it, they’d be gone too if I owned the team. If Wade was my president of football ops and Kyle was my gm and Osh was my head coach and dru brown absolutely lights us up this week, they would be president gm and coach of the Siberian Tigers. 

Why are you throwing Wilson under the bus.  The guy hasn't had a single chance to show what he can do.  

[coach17]

19 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Why are you throwing Wilson under the bus.  The guy hasn't had a single chance to show what he can do.  

I actually like Wilson as a short yardage QB. He seems to get off faster than Strev and keeps lower, his instincts to move right or left when over the center gets plugged just seems better. Anytime he has been in on short yardage positives have happened. Whether he can run a regular offence is hard to say as he has not had a lot of opportunity. Strev is 2-0 this year when he has started although it has not been pretty. Seems to not have the escapability needed as a run and gun QB like he used to. dont know if his knee surgery is affecting this more than thought or not.

[wbbfan]

6 hours ago, Noeller said:

I'm a fan of bringing Allen on at Safety... What does our secondary look like with him there? Who goes where?

I like him and woodbey at S. I think Allen is much more ready a fit at corner though. Depends on how many guys are out. 
 Gonna be a lot of turn over that’a for sure. 
 

3 hours ago, Piggy 1 said:

Kelly looked lost.......

kelly was picking up guys running free, he looked like a guy whose green for basically playing starters snaps. He should be a back up taking a moderate set of package snaps. 
 

 

[Goalie]

1 hour ago, Brandon said:

Why are you throwing Wilson under the bus.  The guy hasn't had a single chance to show what he can do.  

Because he just doesn’t seem to have the skills. They don’t even let him try really. Says it all. Dude is a good short yardage guy but he’s not future starter. 

[Brandon]

7 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Because he just doesn’t seem to have the skills. They don’t even let him try really. Says it all. Dude is a good short yardage guy but he’s not future starter. 

This is the same team that keeps trotting out Jake Thomas.  This is the same team that won't pull Zach when he's bad.    Wouldn't this suggest that this team is bad at judging talent and/or giving others opportunities?      

They don't even let him try is exactly the issue people have had with this club for the last several years.  

[Goalie]

When Wilson had his chances in pre season he looked slow with decision making and held the ball longer than Artopoeous even. Artopoeous actually looks like he has that gun slinger mentality. Plus others have mentioned Wilson couldn’t run certain Os in college. I dunno. Good short yardage guy, better than Streveler. I’d trade or release Streveler before Wilson tho. I’d give him a chance. Yeah Jake Thomas. Jake is Canadian tho and cfl requires you to dress so many. Why he gets so many snaps is beyond me but, he’s not the reason we win or lose really like the Qb is so it’s a bad comparison. Who is our next best Canadian after Jake ? Cuz don’t think we have the depth there. Jake’s dressing no matter what. He’s Canadian and he’s prob better than Schmek or Korn or whoever doesn’t dress that week. Sad but true 

Edited 2 hours ago by Goalie

[17to85]

2 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Wouldn't this suggest that this team is bad at judging talent and/or giving others opportunities?      

I'd say it's the latter, but again, Goalie doesn't like to entertain the idea that coaches  make mistakes building a roster or giving opportunities to players. Only way change happens is extended periods of flat out pants shitting or injury.

[Goalie]

15 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

I'd say it's the latter, but again, Goalie doesn't like to entertain the idea that coaches  make mistakes building a roster or giving opportunities to players. Only way change happens is extended periods of flat out pants shitting or injury.

No. I just don’t go to the school of everything Is always the coaches fault. Probably cuz I played sports and am humble enough to admit on game day, coaches don’t ******* matter if I don’t feel like giving a **** 

I think the OC is a joke. I think the DC is becoming one. O’Shea makes stupid roster decisions. Problem 1 isn’t O’Shea tho. It’s Hogan. It’s prob Walters actually cuz the off season was not good but right now it’s Hogan. 
 

perfect opportunity this week. Bring a sign. Hogan Doesn’t know best. 

Edited 1 hour ago by Goalie

[Slimy Sculpin]

8 hours ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Any single one of their receivers on Jake Kelly or whoever we play at field corner is a bad time.

I'm hoping Cam Allen comes on.  Kelly might be better off at field corner just given the task of managing the deepest outside route instead of trying to read into backfield and make decisions.  He kept stopping his feet then trying to recover which was 3 deep balls, two catches, one for TD and his PI.

Athletically I think Kelly is a good prospect (yeah he's in year 3) but the processing clearly isn't there yet at game speed.

The most egregious roster management issue is that we're forcing a guy like Kelly out there when we only really need to play one Canadian on D.  The DL guys don't kill us as much as is talked about, but putting a guy out there to just be a mark for the opposition in the secondary is not good.

We've dressed 3 American LB's (aside from T Jones) to take about 70 reps in the past two games on D between them.  That's a bit less than half the snaps on D.  But we're dressing a secondary with no backups aside from our primary returner (who is not an outstanding nor experienced CFL DB) and using two Canadians in the secondary when we only need 1 on the entire D based on the number of Canadians we're starting on O.

So....beef up the OL with Americans, bring in another receiver/playmaker...beef up the secondary or interior DL with an American.  We can easily do two of these things.  It's crazy how we're utilizing (or not) our American roster spots.

You make too much sense. 

1 hour ago, Goalie said:

Because he just doesn’t seem to have the skills. They don’t even let him try really. Says it all. Dude is a good short yardage guy but he’s not future starter. 

He's most likely not the future but given the short yardage plays they're running, he's a better option than Streveler. It cost us big time yesterday  on that 3rd down gamble at around the Stamps' 10 yd line when Streveler was stuffed. TSN turning point IMO.

[Goalie]

12 minutes ago, Slimy Sculpin said:

You make too much sense. 

He's most likely not the future but given the short yardage plays they're running, he's a better option than Streveler. It cost us big time yesterday  on that 3rd down gamble at around the Stamps' 10 yd line when Streveler was stuffed. TSN turning point IMO.

Agreed. Streveler seems to be a lost cause. Perhaps a trade to Hamilton for Powell. I dunno. Change of scenery. Hamilton likes Tuas brother so maybe a change for Strev and Powell would be beneficial. I mean I think he’s a guy I’d go after in the off season anyways so Just why not expedite the process if you can. Now. 

Edited 1 hour ago by Goalie

[17to85]

1 hour ago, Goalie said:

No. I just don’t go to the school of everything Is always the coaches fault. Probably cuz I played sports and am humble enough to admit on game day, coaches don’t ******* matter if I don’t feel like giving a **** 

I think the OC is a joke. I think the DC is becoming one. O’Shea makes stupid roster decisions. Problem 1 isn’t O’Shea tho. It’s Hogan. It’s prob Walters actually cuz the off season was not good but right now it’s Hogan. 
 

perfect opportunity this week. Bring a sign. Hogan Doesn’t know best. 

Remind me... who hired the coordinators?