Time: Monday 8, TSN3

Stats: 27-16-2 @ 27-17-3

Streaks: L1 @ L3

Notes: Jets on a losing streak. When will it end? Probably not tonight. Kulikov’s first game for EDM.

Edited April 27, 20214 yr by FrostyWinnipeg

football, cfl, nfl deal with player public  grumbling much better.

you dont hear it very often.

NHL seems to be more tolerant , too tolerant of players whining in public, and appearing to play with no effort.

rarely, even on the worst football teams do you see players not trying.

the cleveland browns, winless,season, kept trying.

this hockey thing of players quitting, is putrid.

 

Edited April 27, 20214 yr by Mark F

Helle hasn't quit... He's just out there by himself all the time. The assistant captain 55 certainly has. 

6 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Helle hasn't quit... He's just out there by himself all the time. The assistant captain 55 certainly has. 

i didnt mean him. i know he hasnt quit. hes probably mentally and physically exhausted from keeping the team in games.

my impression is that 55 lost interest a few years ago. it almost seems like when buff got tired of the hitting, basically stopped playing that way, then retired, the team lost its spiirit.

 

buff and wheeler, were the team spirit, wheelers worn out, buffs gone, and there is nobody to replace them.

Edited April 27, 20214 yr by Mark F

And maybe selling away our best prospects to get one more defenceman would have made zero difference come playoff time anyway, and we mortgaged our future for what?

There is definitely some change needed here, but why blow it up or sell off the future when we are neither a fading team nor a right now legit top contender. Let’s start by teaching Kyle Connor and Mark Scheifele among others how to play defence. 

So fire the coaching staff? Big trade in the off season?

17 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Let’s start by teaching Kyle Connor and Mark Scheifele among others how to play defence. 

are they being asked to stay out of their own end?

we dont actually know if they are ignoring the coach and playing lazy, or being told to leave the defence in their own end to the defencemennand stay mainly outside their own blue line.

other teams do this.  
 

have not heard anyone ask this obvious question. 

just saying this or that guy is playing lazy ..... dont really know.

I think its time to look at the defence coach. 

defence a complete mess. cant all be the players.

Edited April 27, 20214 yr by Mark F

I don't know what's going on with Scheifele .....he definitely isn't playing the caliber of hockey he's capable of.....Connor looks like he's caught the same lull in his game as Scheif.....I'm sorry to have to say this but I think Wheels is done....He's slower than molasses and looks like he has lead in his skates...He's supposed to bring something special to the team according to Maurice....If it's just a solid anchor in the dressing room then I'm sorry...we need more than that...Below par performance isn't cutting it...time to move on....There's definitely something gone missing from a team that looked to have such promise a little while ago....Chevy and Paul better get together and figure out something pretty quick cuz this ship is taking on water fast

1 hour ago, Mark F said:

are they being asked to stay out of their own end?

we dont actually know if they are ignoring the coach and playing lazy, or being told to leave the defence in their own end to the defencemennand stay mainly outside their own blue line.

other teams do this.  
 

have not heard anyone ask this obvious question. 

just saying this or that guy is playing lazy ..... dont really know.

I think its time to look at the defence coach. 

defence a complete mess. cant all be the players.

After almost 8 years Maurice and Huddy need to go. Like yesterday after the game even. It's either they aren't listening or he's not coaching them. Either way after almost 8 years and 1 1 1 year past round 1... Pretty obvious who the problems are. 

well if P.Mo has to go then let's hope Torts won't be out of Columbus at the same time,

I hear Patrick Roy is available.

hmm that would be a better option

27 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

I hear Patrick Roy is available.

I heard he was going to come back and save the Habs.

If coaches were fired every time they had a 4 game losing streak, then every single team would have fired a coach last year, and 24 would have done it again this year. Don’t know why some people continually look to dump a coach and think it will be a magic cure. This team has some clear flaws, some through bad luck and bad timing, some systemic, some through personnel, some through coaching. Like every other team out there (maybe save systemic for a precious few). If there is a better coach out there right now with a proven track record of success beyond Maurice, I am all ears. But change for change sake is a fool’s errand. 
 

And I seriously hope that any mention of Patrick Roy is a joke. 

Edited April 28, 20214 yr by TrueBlue4ever

what did we have in 2018 that we don't have now? besides Buff, Laine, Armia, Trouba, Myers, Brossoit and....I feel like I'm missing someone to be fair Hendricks was out for the season by this point (Kulikov?)

 

Are we depending too much on Helle?

Is it accurate to say that a guy with 12 seasons missing the playoffs, 5 additional seasons losing in round one with 1 finals trip (19 years ago) and two losses in round 3 has a proven track record of success or is beyond questioning?

1 hour ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

If coaches for fired every time they had a 4 games losing streak, then every single team would have fired a coach last year, and 24 would have done it again this year. Don’t know why some people continually look to dump a coach and think it will be a magic cure. This team has some clear flaws, some through bad luck and bad timing, some systemic, some through personnel, some through coaching. Like every other team out there (maybe save systemic for a precious few). If there is a better coach out there right now with a proven track record of success beyond Maurice, I am all ears. But change for change sake is a fool’s errand. 
 

And I seriously hope that any mention of Patrick Roy is a joke. 

So is sticking with the same tired approach and hoping things will change.

2 hours ago, iHeart said:

what did we have in 2018 that we don't have now? besides Buff, Laine, Armia, Trouba, Myers, Brossoit and....I feel like I'm missing someone to be fair Hendricks was out for the season by this point (Kulikov?)

 

Are we depending too much on Helle?

We had a team that went on a regular season tear that teams achieve once every 30 years. We had a big physical defence with Buff, Chariot, Trouba (who also made Morrissey better), and Myers, with Toby Enstrom as our 6th or 7th defenceman. Joe Morrow too and Kulikov. Compare that alone to what we have now and that explains a lot of the difference. Now include Tanev, Laine, Little, and a 32 year old Paul Stastny and a 31 year old Blake Wheeler. One stat said there were 14 NHLers at 6’5” or taller in 2018 and the Jets had 5 of them, 3 on defence. Now we have 3, one out with injury, one who supposedly has been playing hurt all year and now coming off a concussion, and a rookie on defence. We have lost size and speed. We have lost the loudest building and most energetic fans in the league for all of our home games. And yes, we are depending too much on Hellebuyck. So when Goalie picks 2 coaches and says “it’s pretty obvious who the problems are” I find that it overlooks a ton of stuff.  

Edited April 28, 20214 yr by TrueBlue4ever

10 hours ago, rebusrankin said:

10 hours ago, rebusrankin said:

Is it accurate to say that a guy with 12 seasons missing the playoffs, 5 additional seasons losing in round one with 1 finals trip (19 years ago) and two losses in round 3 has a proven track record of success or is beyond questioning?

He absolutely is not above questioning. And he does have a decent but not exceptional by any means track record of success. Are there coaches with better track records? Of course. Are they retired or otherwise already employed? I would say yes. But I am happy to consider alternative names if anyone offers one. And I have already considered and will soundly dismiss Patrick Roy as a suitable replacement. 

Edited April 28, 20214 yr by TrueBlue4ever

10 hours ago, BomberBall said:

So is sticking with the same tired approach and hoping things will change.

I would not classify the Jets’ approach and success as “tired”. No Western Conference team has has a better record in the past 4 seasons. But if the mentality is “Stanley Cup or bust” every single season and we can the coach if we don’t win the division or make the final 4 more than half the time, we will be recycling coaches with no better results over that time. The Bombers showed what instability in coaching did for the better part of 25 years after Cal Murphy got dumped. People called for O’Shea’s head for the better part of 4 seasons, right up to half time of the West semi-final in Calgary. Wonder how we would have fared if we axed him in 2017 or 2018? And who wants him gone now? But that is my mentality. I can deal with slow and steady and prefer a methodical approach to building a team. I would rather see sustained success where we re-tool rather than tear down and re-build. So much has to go right to win a championship, I do not wish for a decade of abject failure to get a 2-3 year window before we crater again. I can deal with this approach more than the flash in the pan. If you want a tired approach, look at Buffalo’s last decade or the Oilers between the Messier and McDavid years. Or even Ottawa, who were in the Conference Finals a year before the Jets were. Who would trade our last 4 years for theirs? Just my opinion. 

Edited April 28, 20214 yr by TrueBlue4ever

55 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

I would not classify the Jets’ approach and success as “tired”. No Western Conference team has has a better record in the 4 seasons. But if the mentality is “Stanley Cup or bust” every single season and we can the coach if we don’t win the division or make the final 4 more than half the time, we will be recycling coaches with no better results over that time. The Bombers showed what instability in coaching did for the better part of 25 years after Cal Murphy got dumped. People called for O’Shea’s head for the better part of 4 seasons, right up to half time of the West semi-final in Calgary. Wonder how we would have fared if we axed him in 2017 or 2018? And who wants him gone now? But that is my mentality. I can deal with slow and steady and prefer a methodical approach to building a team. I would rather see sustained success where we re-tool rather than tear down and re-build. So much has to go right to win a championship, I do not wish for a decade of abject failure to get a 2-3 year window before we crater again. I can deal with this approach more than the flash in the pan. If you want a tired approach, look at Buffalo’s last decade or the Oilers between the Messier and McDavid years. Or even Ottawa, who were in the Conference Finals a year before the Jets were. Who would trade our last 4 years for theirs? Just my opinion. 

I don't disagree but we've had Maurice in place for nearly a decade. Chevy has been here since Day 1. We do things a certain way all the time to the point that we know it's "The Jets Way". We have had the same philosophy in place yet nothing changes. There's stability & then there's going stale doing the same thing that doesn't work. We came close in 2018 & blew it up on defense within a year of almost going to the Western Conference finals. What is happening now is just about spinning our wheels as an organization. We need new ideas, Maybe a new way of doing things. It's time for a change if we don't make it out of the first round. 

Edited April 28, 20214 yr by SpeedFlex27

getting slaughtered like they just did......

 

there are enough very good players on the team, that that should not happen.

brossiut, helleybuck get bombarded game in and game out.

we  have all seen it, two on ones, breakaways, chaotic play around their own goal. game after game. 

jets players uselessly flailing with their stick outstretched as opponent flys by with the puck, what happened to body checking? get somebody who will do a bit of that maybe.

pathetic.

 

this team has a problem, maybe no heart, I have no clue.

no chance they get past the first round.

 

Edited April 28, 20214 yr by Mark F

10 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

I would not classify the Jets’ approach and success as “tired”. No Western Conference team has has a better record in the past 4 seasons. But if the mentality is “Stanley Cup or bust” every single season and we can the coach if we don’t win the division or make the final 4 more than half the time, we will be recycling coaches with no better results over that time. The Bombers showed what instability in coaching did for the better part of 25 years after Cal Murphy got dumped. People called for O’Shea’s head for the better part of 4 seasons, right up to half time of the West semi-final in Calgary. Wonder how we would have fared if we axed him in 2017 or 2018? And who wants him gone now? But that is my mentality. I can deal with slow and steady and prefer a methodical approach to building a team. I would rather see sustained success where we re-tool rather than tear down and re-build. So much has to go right to win a championship, I do not wish for a decade of abject failure to get a 2-3 year window before we crater again. I can deal with this approach more than the flash in the pan. If you want a tired approach, look at Buffalo’s last decade or the Oilers between the Messier and McDavid years. Or even Ottawa, who were in the Conference Finals a year before the Jets were. Who would trade our last 4 years for theirs? Just my opinion. 

I’m not one for constant change, I definitely lean toward stability and sticking with a coarse of action.... Until it gets to a point where you’re stuck and little or no improvement is being made.  SpeedFlex said it well, above... The Jets have become stale and they need some new life.  And I don’t believe just because you change a coach, it’s a rebuild or a tear down.

37 minutes ago, Mark F said:

getting slaughtered like they just did......

 

there are enough very good players on the team, that that should not happen.

brossiut, helleybuck get bombarded game in and game out.

we  have all seen it, two on ones, breakaways, chaotic play around their own goal. game after game. 

jets players uselessly flailing with their stick outstretched as opponent flys by with the puck, what happened to body checking? get somebody who will do a bit of that maybe.

pathetic.

 

this team has a problem, maybe no heart, I have no clue.

no chance they get past the first round.

 

Don’t give up hope yet. Just getting this out of their system before the playoffs start (said while lying in fetal position moving back and forth. Thumb in mouth optional)

Let's not forget the Leafs were going through the same thing two weeks ago. Better now than in the playoffs. Oilers have too. 

 

We may have the best goalie in the league, certainly the North Division. 

I get the idea of stale and agree with that. I am just not sure that’s what this is right now. Remember that Edmonton lost 4-0, 3-0, and 6-1 to Toronto at home this year. Teams go through bad patches. The injury bug has hit us with Wheeler, Lowry, and Ehlers out. Lousy timing, but it can’t be controlled. This team seemed very tight and fighting for each other for most of this year. Maybe it has changed, but I am willing to give it more than 4 games before I declare Maurice’s style stale. We overachieved in 2018 and it has set up some false expectations. We experienced a natural regression in 2019 but still had a chance to take out St. Louis in the playoffs but for a collapse in game 5 and a team that caught lightning in a bottle for half a season. Then our defence completely caved in and we have not recovered from it. I put more responsibility on Chevy than Maurice for that, and sadly players don’t want to play in Winnipeg as much as other places, and it has little to do with the coach or the teammates, it really boils down to the city itself, the climate, and the taxes. Sucks to be the runt of the litter, but again it can’t be controlled. So I look at where we started from 10 years ago, what we climbed to, and why we have dipped since then. Losing your #1, 2, 4, 5 and 6 defencemen in one summer and  damaging the #3 guy in the process due to overwork was a sucker punch, and will take time to recover from. We cannot outbid the big markets for free agents, so this style is the one that works best for this market in my mind. It may appear to be stale in the low moments, but I don’t see firing Maurice as providing the spark that will turn things around. I would see it as the team throwing  in the towel on the year and would take us longer to recover from. We are a contender with our talent but hardly a favourite, and we would need a ton of breaks to win the Cup this year. One big trade for a top 2 defenceman at the deadline was not going to significantly change that status in my mind. And I see our window still at 4 years while the contracts for Scheifele, Ehlers, Connor, and Hellebuyck are in place. Some definite re-tooling needed, but not ready to blow up this approach yet. Ask me again if we lose the next 8 and get swept out losing 5-0 in every game in the playoffs. 
 

Or just tell me who steps in right now as a coach and makes us better. Part of the solution is not just the firing, but the quality of the hire. Who is the best candidate available right now? (On paper, Mike Babcock has the best track record but he is now a toxic name after his time in Toronto). 
 

Aside from the gutted defence, what I am hearing is that our forwards are not doing enough defensively, and I certainly see that with bad passes and poor back checking, notably from Kyle Connor and supposed rink rat and student of the game Scheifele. How much is on the coach and how much is on the player? 

1 hour ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Don’t give up hope yet. Just getting this out of their system before the playoffs start (said while lying in fetal position moving back and forth. Thumb in mouth optional)

I am actually closer to the part in parentheses than all my other posts would suggest. 

Edited April 28, 20214 yr by TrueBlue4ever