I’m surprised the mayor gave in.  Bad decision. 

 

27 minutes ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

Trump was only 5% behind Hillary with a month to go. Also he didnt win popular which is the real crime.

I back it up with facts.

Lol. Polls aren't facts. Polls are loads of ****. 

The general sentiment from reading in various places and talking to people it seems very pro No. I've seen the other polls which were closer to 80-90 for closing and I believe that is a more accurate picture.

But ppl dont like spending money here so next time tell them it costs double to keep it closed. Fact is... 10 million to take down. 20 million in upgrades to fix it. 

13 minutes ago, Goalie said:

But ppl dont like spending money here so next time tell them it costs double to keep it closed. Fact is... 10 million to take down. 20 million in upgrades to fix it. 

I think the fact of having to extend the drive to and from work by a large chunk of time will over ride the supposed 10 million extra to fix it.   

13 hours ago, Brandon said:

I think the fact of having to extend the drive to and from work by a large chunk of time will over ride the supposed 10 million extra to fix it.   

The consulting report said that on an average commute, 50% of drivers would see no increase in commute time, and the overall average to all drivers would be 45 seconds. This is to their entire commute, not per light cycle. Not sure what you consider a 'large chunk', but the impact on traffic in general is greatly exaggerated.

Keeping it closed is directly opposed to everything we know about urban planning. The second comment in this thread speaks to exactly why you don't leave administrative decisions in the hands of the ignorant masses (most of whom will never be directly affected by the outcome): https://www.reddit.com/r/Winnipeg/comments/9f76rv/winnipeggers_really_dont_like_this_idea_of/?st=JLZTS424&sh=3eebbfee

I tend to see the vote going for the "closed" side but no where do I see it over 80%.  I suppose if there are dedicated websites, forums or social media that attract anti-development or pro-cars supporters, it would be.  If you go to Skyscraper Forum, which attracts a lot of pro-development, architects etc, its over 90% to "open", as would be expected.  But across my twitter, I see it "closed" but not overwhelmingly so.  In fact, the fastest growing segment is probably the whole "I really dont give a **** anymore".

What annoys me, and always has with elections, is the people that want a say without critical thinking.  Too many people think it will impact traffic all the time, like 24/7 massive gridlock and thats just, common sense, not remotely a thing.  Rush hour is not 24/7.

@nate007 you hit the nail on the head.  There are some "closed" folks that are invested and still feel that way, and kudos to them.  But the vast majority really have no clue.  And the reasons given simply dont hold water.

I really really hate the "the money will be better spent on potholes, meth addicts, homeless etc" as if its an either/or scenario.  And just wait until they open their eyes and accept the fact P&M will cost a ton of money regardless of whether the barricades remain or not.  In some places, if it was a private business, it would have been shut down by now.

23 hours ago, Goalie said:

Lol. Polls aren't facts. Polls are loads of ****. 

They've been quite accurate for the last several Canadian elections. 

Polls mean ****.. Why? Because it doesn't reflect the reality. 

That reality being the wpg square roof and underground structure is so far gone from the excess weight of these crumbling pieces of crap barricades that to fix it will cost 25 30 million.. Structurally the barricades are going to have to come down. Plus with the whole equal rights initiatives, making it easier for those who are in wheelchairs to cross.. Looks like its just a matter of time b4 they come down. 

The vote will be irrelevant... Its going to be taken down. Time to accept it and deal with it... Cuz its gonna happen. 

As a person who wants it open, thank god for shitty construction practices that have compromised the underground roof structure.

 

Reality.. 

It costs 30 to fix.. It costs 8 to take down... Winnipegers like to hear that I'm sure. 20 million dollar savings. 

Edited October 13, 20187 yr by Goalie

They could take them down, put in yields(YES, YIELDS like a proper intersection) but no crosswalk until approved by Joe Public.

On ‎2018‎-‎09‎-‎12 at 4:00 PM, FrostyWinnipeg said:

Trump was only 5% behind Hillary with a month to go. Also he didnt win popular which is the real crime.

I back it up with facts.

The only poll that counts is on Election day. 

The cost of repairing the area hasn’t been well covered. A lot of no votes are over supposed cost to open. But a lot of people never understood that the whole area is badly in need of repair. 

 

13 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

The cost of repairing the area hasn’t been well covered. A lot of no votes are over supposed cost to open. But a lot of people never understood that the whole area is badly in need of repair. 

 

Wpg square structure is compromised. The cost to replace could be 30 plus million. They wont do that tho.. They will just take down the crumbling pieces of crap instead (barricades). Its a safety issue big time

Edited October 14, 20187 yr by Goalie

6 hours ago, Goalie said:

Wpg square structure is compromised. The cost to replace could be 30 plus million. They wont do that tho.. They will just take down the crumbling pieces of crap instead (barricades). Its a safety issue big time

They’ll have to do more than that I think. But yeah it’s probably why bowman want to dissuaded by the vote. He knew it didn’t really matter 

8 hours ago, Goalie said:

Wpg square structure is compromised. The cost to replace could be 30 plus million. They wont do that tho.. They will just take down the crumbling pieces of crap instead (barricades). Its a safety issue big time

Do you have a source for that?

Wouldn't the structure need to be fixed regardless.

Maybe I'm not understanding this but are they suggesting to completely close up Winnipeg Square instead of doing the repairs?  Or is this only the barricades on the outside?  

8 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Maybe I'm not understanding this but are they suggesting to completely close up Winnipeg Square instead of doing the repairs?  Or is this only the barricades on the outside?  

"... private landowners at the intersection revealed the dilapidated waterproofing membrane running above the concourse must be replaced, and that doing so would require the removal of all concrete and other structures at street-level. "

This will be fun.

1 hour ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

"... private landowners at the intersection revealed the dilapidated waterproofing membrane running above the concourse must be replaced, and that doing so would require the removal of all concrete and other structures at street-level. "

This will be fun.

I can't see them completely closing it down though...  the amount of  people using the underground during work hours is really high and that would be a major impact if it were to go away.   I think they fix it.  

3 hours ago, Brandon said:

I can't see them completely closing it down though...  the amount of  people using the underground during work hours is really high and that would be a major impact if it were to go away.   I think they fix it.  

I don't see why they would have to close down the underground part. It seems to say the work would be done outside. I also don't see that as costing that much (relative to the millions goalie was talking about).

If the underground were to be closed that would be catastrophic during winter time and many food businesses would get a hit.   Many a times I walked underground comfortably to the food court or to city place and hit up the food court there.   I would not do this at all if I was forced to bundle up and go outside.  

5 hours ago, Jacquie said:

I don't see why they would have to close down the underground part. It seems to say the work would be done outside. I also don't see that as costing that much (relative to the millions goalie was talking about).

I equate it with working on a bridge. Do you want to be below it when they're working on it?

I dont get the impression they mean to close it.  They mean removing everything from above ground to work on the "roof" of WPG Square.   Assuming the city is obligated to repair their part (the street level), just wait til P&M is closed to traffic to do these repairs.  The "no" people will be losing their minds.

This aspect, I think the city did a really poor job explaining.  Had they explained long ago that there are millions of dollars in REQUIRED repairs (seriously, some of the stairways are disintegrating and would be shut down by city inspectors if it were a private business) and they need to remove all the concrete anyway, it would end any argument about the money involved.

Since they have to do this work and since you have private land-owners who are committed to investing money in the work AND in re-jigging the area to be more pedestrian friendly, then it becomes and opportunity for the city to re-think P&M.  I think a lot of the 'no' voters are "dont spend any money, I have a pot hole" types.  Money will be spent.  Period.  

This is actually an idea worth strong consideration.  

 

1 hour ago, The Unknown Poster said:

This is actually an idea worth strong consideration.  

 

It's not a bad idea,   what I wish would be for all buses to avoid going down Portage...  the amount of times they cross into Portage from one of the side streets and then end up blocking 3 - 4 lanes is ridiculous.  It definitely would help the flow since from that alone I have to sit at least 2 - 3 extra sets of lights during rush hour...

I will be voting to keep it closed simply because the "vote open" people have been so insufferable. I don't care either way, though, and frankly I think it's a joke that this is one of the central issues of the election.

15 hours ago, Atomic said:

I will be voting to keep it closed simply because the "vote open" people have been so insufferable. I don't care either way, though, and frankly I think it's a joke that this is one of the central issues of the election.

Really?  I find the opposite.  Im really impressed with the vote open people, their organizing and the information they have brought forward.  The no people seem very angry as if its a personal affront and generally spread complete falsehoods.  If you compare Brent Bellamy to Tom Brodbeck, the former is far more professional and honest.

Broadbeck's gimmick this week is to beat back the "if we had a vote on everything we have, they'd never have happened" by claiming there was little opposition to things like the MTS Centre and Floodway.  Thats simply not true.  Im surprised he's on the no side since the money that will be spent regardless is going to be significant.

But regardless, I wouldn't vote on a major issue impacting my community simply because I didn't like someone who supported one side.  The vote is on the issue, not the people.

Ill be voting open.  I was surprised when my mom told me last night that she would vote open as well, but she told me stories of crossing before the barricades and what a pain it was when they went in.

I think people had their minds made up on day one and nothing was going to change it either way.  It will be a no and then when they rip all the cement up for much needed repairs, the citizenry will whine about the expense of putting those barricades back in.