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7 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Very true.  Unfortunately, voting doesnt require an intelligence test.   The 2016 election will be long studied and taught in classes for decades to come.  

I think you mean the 2015 election.

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2 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Nothing you said above is true.  I don't "attack" people, but I do disagree with them.  That's not the same as endorsing censorship, which is just wrong and totally Orwellian.  This "whataboutism" is pretty silly actually (hey look I used a virtue signaling word, that's cool!).

What I find "Orwellian" is the right's increasing use of the word "Orwellian". 

George Orwell

Eric Arthur Blair, better known by his pen name George Orwell, was an English novelist, essayist, journalist and critic whose work is marked by lucid prose, awareness of social injustice, opposition to totalitarianism and outspoken support of democratic socialism.

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1 minute ago, kelownabomberfan said:

good grief, back to these stupid insults.  Just disgusting.

Winning the popular vote in the US is like having the most shots on goal in a hockey game.  It is a nice stat, but is meaningless in the standings.

Can you stop with the insults and trolling?  Calling people stupid and disgusting is such a weak effort.  If you cant do better, dont bother.  Dragging this thread down to the muck isnt fair to the 98% of people who are taking part responsibly.

Also, only 5 elections had winners lose the popular vote so I'd say you're also wrong about that.  And unless you want to pretend the facts of the Russian interference are untrue, the popular vote difference never meant more than it did in 2016.  But again, you're changing the narrative of a discussion you pushed...that Hilary was wildly unpopular.  She wasnt.   Thats a fact.  

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18 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Why are you so obtuse on this? 

Once again, you broke my irony meter.  You owe $12.

Quote

Why is it the people that have a nasty narrative to spread that seem to both hide behind free speech and fail to understand the basic concept of consequences? 

my cheerios and my computer screen both are taking a major beating today.

Quote

Again, you chose to change the narrative rather then support the actual content of the discussion.  

No one said disagreeing is hate speech.  Only you.  Absurd.

Ok, let's look at the conversation again.  You openly asked why Zontar is "allowed to post" or some such language.  Even though he doesn't break any rules here, and is generally respectful.  So then why wouldn't he be allowed to post?  Because he says things that you disagree with?  I ask the question, and used the term "free speech' which I know is a trigger for some, and am hit with a lecture about hate speech, which isn't applicable to the discussion at all, but "thanks".  So it's pretty logical to assume that you, or some here, feel that what Zontar says is "hate speech", even though it isn't.  He's just saying things that you disagree with.  I disagree with a lot of things he says too.  But he is allowed to say it.  He's not breaking any rules of the forum.  Once you start censoring people, or even calling for it, just because you disagree with them, you do enter the world of the absurd.  And it's just not a place anyone should even be considering, because we are supposed to be a free country.

Edited by kelownabomberfan

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Well ****- looky what's going on in trump country...

 

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/05/11/warren-west-virginia-2020-1317611

 

Liz Warren- so awesome.

Dems need to follow her lead... she's for impeachment and is still able to get the Democratic messaging out on making things work for the poor and middle class... it's like walking and chewing bubble gum for her.

Edited by wanna-b-fanboy

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1 minute ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Can you stop with the insults and trolling? Calling people stupid and disgusting is such a weak effort.  If you cant do better, dont bother.  Dragging this thread down to the muck isnt fair to the 98% of people who are taking part responsibly.

and we're back to this nonsense.  Here's a deal - stop labeling people with racist terms like "white nationalist", because they don't just fall in lock-step with everything you say, and then guess what, you will stop being disgusting.  Because it is disgusting.  And if you are lumping yourself into the 98%, then you are truly delusional.

1 minute ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Also, only 5 elections had winners lose the popular vote so I'd say you're also wrong about that.

no, it's pretty cut and dried - those who win the electoral college win the US election.  That's why some people figured out that you should actually campaign in states like Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, and some were too arrogant and lazy to even try.  The whole point of the electoral college is so some states with bigger populations can't just over-run smaller states.  We should look into this in Canada, maybe Quebec wouldn't be given SNC Lavalin treatment if we did.  It is funny though how Democrats never said boo about the unfairness of the electoral college until they lost.  That's actually hilarious.

1 minute ago, The Unknown Poster said:

But again, you're changing the narrative of a discussion you pushed...that Hilary was wildly unpopular.  She wasnt.   Thats a fact.  

She was extremely unpopular.  That's a fact.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/243242/snapshot-hillary-clinton-favorable-rating-low.aspx

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7 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

What I find "Orwellian" is the right's increasing use of the word "Orwellian". 

George Orwell

Eric Arthur Blair, better known by his pen name George Orwell, was an English novelist, essayist, journalist and critic whose work is marked by lucid prose, awareness of social injustice, opposition to totalitarianism and outspoken support of democratic socialism.

and what I find Orwellian is the Left's continual attacks on free speech.  Check out interviews with Antifa slime-balls, the first thing they say they want to do is abolish the First Amendment!  Why is that I wonder?

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6 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Check out interviews with Antifa slime-balls, the first thing they say they want to do is abolish the First Amendment!  Why is that I wonder?

Cuz hate speech is protected by the first amendment? And I personally don't think it should be.

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4 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

and what I find Orwellian is the Left's continual attacks on free speech.  Check out interviews with Antifa slime-balls, the first thing they say they want to do is abolish the First Amendment!  Why is that I wonder?

I'm suggesting that the right might want a different author in their corner than Orwell as I'm sure he'd have a lot to say about it if he were alive today.

You can use all the Anne Coulter you want, but if you want to leverage my boi, you better read this first.

“And the only regime which, in the long run, will dare to permit freedom of speech is a socialist regime. If Fascism triumphs I am finished as a writer — that is to say, finished in my only effective capacity. That of itself would be a sufficient reason for joining a socialist party.”

– George Orwell, “Why I Joined the Independent Labour Party

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5 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

I'm suggesting that the right might want a different author in their corner than Orwell as I'm sure he'd have a lot to say about it if he were alive today.

 

I think Orwell would be extremely disappointed with both sides of the ledger in the US right now.  Just as I think Tommy Douglas would weep if he saw what happened to his dream of affordable Canadian health care.  And sorry, but if you think your "boi" would be cool with far lefties wanting to see the First Amendment abolished, then you haven't thoroughly studied Animal Farm.

Edited by kelownabomberfan

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9 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Cuz hate speech is protected by the first amendment? And I personally don't think it should be.

that's just so wrong, on so many levels.  My "boi" Orwell would have a problem with that way of thinking.

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6 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

that's just so wrong, on so many levels.  My "boi" Orwell would have a problem with that way of thinking.

"It should be noted that there is now no intelligentsia that is not in some sense “Left”. Perhaps the last right-wing intellectual was TE Lawrence."  George Orwell. 

TE Lawrence died in 1935, so it kind of makes sense that the right would need a socialist's writings to appropriate as they can't find any intelligent life in their own circles.

Can't wait to hear the Chomsky stuff now.

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9 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

"It should be noted that there is now no intelligentsia that is not in some sense “Left”. Perhaps the last right-wing intellectual was TE Lawrence."  George Orwell. 

TE Lawrence died in 1935, so it kind of makes sense that the right would need a socialist's writings to appropriate as they can't find any intelligent life in their own circles.

Can't wait to hear the Chomsky stuff now.

I do find it hilarious that you are trying to compare Leftists from that era and say that they are in any way tied to the Left as it stands today.  Seriously, have a look at Tommy Douglas sometime.  He never ran a deficit in his life.  Can you honestly say that he is a "socialist" by today's standards?  I can't.  And you can't either, if you are being honest.  What Orwell stood for is true liberalism, an ideal that is pretty much dead.  It was hand-in-hand with freedom.  I think Bill Maher can be a real jack-arse, but he's one of the guys on the Left that I can stomach, because he believes in freedom too.  Maher hates the whole anti-free speech movement.  So did Orwell.  Eric would not be standing by your side right now.  No way, no how.

 

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2 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Lol!

Do you have any further insight or just sarcasm?  I mean, aren’t we way beyond debating how trump won? Lol 

You can’t possibly not understand the point of my original post. There were plenty of luke warm Trump supporters who voted for him, because they didn’t want to just stay home. That’s not even up for debate, it’s a fact.  

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1 hour ago, kelownabomberfan said:

and we're back to this nonsense.  Here's a deal - stop labeling people with racist terms like "white nationalist", because they don't just fall in lock-step with everything you say, and then guess what, you will stop being disgusting.  Because it is disgusting.  And if you are lumping yourself into the 98%, then you are truly delusional.

no, it's pretty cut and dried - those who win the electoral college win the US election.  That's why some people figured out that you should actually campaign in states like Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, and some were too arrogant and lazy to even try.  The whole point of the electoral college is so some states with bigger populations can't just over-run smaller states.  We should look into this in Canada, maybe Quebec wouldn't be given SNC Lavalin treatment if we did.  It is funny though how Democrats never said boo about the unfairness of the electoral college until they lost.  That's actually hilarious.

She was extremely unpopular.  That's a fact.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/243242/snapshot-hillary-clinton-favorable-rating-low.aspx

She won the popular vote. Lol

just because you wish it wasn’t true doesn’t make it so.   

Edited by The Unknown Poster

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1 minute ago, kelownabomberfan said:

I do find it hilarious that you are trying to compare Leftists from that era and say that they are in any way tied to the Left as it stands today.  Seriously, have a look at Tommy Douglas sometime.  He never ran a deficit in his life.  Can you honestly say that he is a "socialist" by today's standards?  I can't.  And you can't either, if you are being honest.  What Orwell stood for is true liberalism, an ideal that is pretty much dead.  It was hand-in-hand with freedom.  I think Bill Maher can be a real jack-arse, but he's one of the guys on the Left that I can stomach, because he believes in freedom too.  Maher hates the whole anti-free speech movement.  So did Orwell.  Eric would not be standing by your side right now.  No way, no how.

 

I watch Maher every week, but I don't always agree with him.  I also think punching Nazi's in the face is totally acceptable.  Since when does socialism mean you have to run a deficit? I don't believe that's in the "Socialism for Dummies" book on my shelf, how does your's read?  

Orwell recognized that things were complicated and political speech was inherently dishonest.  He also wrote that Stalin was more aligned with the right than he was with socialism and he recognized that the masses could be tricked by fancy words and twisting of truths into supporting autocracies which end up totalitarian - without free speech of any kind. 

Your capacity for irony would be amazing if I thought you recognized it. 

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3 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

She won the popular vote. Lol

just because you wish it wasn’t true doesn’t make it so.   

she won the popular vote because of two states.  That's why she lost the election.  There I go again, pushing facts.

Edited by kelownabomberfan

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7 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

I watch Maher every week, but I don't always agree with him.  I also think punching Nazi's in the face is totally acceptable.

Fair enough, but I also think punching Communists in the face is totally acceptable.  Where do we draw the punching in the face line?   And who is a "Nazi" anymore?  The term seems to have lost a lot of meaning these days, as everyone is a Nazi....

Quote

 

 

  Since when does socialism mean you have to run a deficit? I don't believe that's in the "Socialism for Dummies" book on my shelf, how does your's read?  

Since when does the NDP run consistent surpluses.  Look, you want to stick your head in the sand, be my guest.  Is there a "socialism for dummies" book?  That sounds kind of redundant.

Quote

Orwell recognized that things were complicated and political speech was inherently dishonest.  He also wrote that Stalin was more aligned with the right than he was with socialism and he recognized that the masses could be tricked by fancy words and twisting of truths into supporting autocracies which end up totalitarian - without free speech of any kind. 

So you are saying that right now, the Left and the Right are both being inherently dishonest, and so therefore free speech should be abolished?  Is that your takeaway?  If so, I agree with the first part, but disagree with the second.

Quote

Your capacity for irony would be amazing if I thought you recognized it. 

LOL - here we go again.  

Edited by kelownabomberfan

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11 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

You can’t possibly not understand the point of my original post. There were plenty of luke warm Trump supporters who voted for him, because they didn’t want to just stay home. That’s not even up for debate, it’s a fact.  

are you saying that there might be some deliberate obtuseness here?  I thought that was my thing.

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9 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

she won the popular vote because of two states.  That's why she lost the election.  There I go again, pushing facts.

Popular = more ppl voted for her. She won the popular vote. There is no yeah but... Its not yeah but.

 Its she ******* did. 

But WTF is the relevance in talking Hillary Clinton.. Shes not the one ******* Americans in the ass daily. 

Edited by Goalie

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More facts needed: every government runs deficits.  Gary Doer’s NDP in Manitoba ran a balanced budget. Harper ran numerous deficits, even with a majority. 

My point: It’s better to ask why a government ran deficits, rather than making broad statements about them. 

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Just now, Mark H. said:

More facts needed: every government runs deficits.  Gary Doer’s NDP in Manitoba ran a balanced budget. Harper ran numerous deficits, even with a majority. 

My point: It’s better to ask why a government ran deficits, rather than making broad statements about them. 

you bet.

I was just giving an example - trying to say that Tommy Douglas is a "socialist" by today's standards is a fools game.  Much like trying to say George Orwell would support the abolishment of the First Amendment.  

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