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29 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

Interesting article.  I don’t see the need to opine that Mueller ‘took the wrong approach’ the way the writer does.  It is likely that there was collusion but it cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.  A classic example of that would be the Mark Stobbe case, or even the old movie 12 Angry Men. These were criminal charges and that was the correct standard of proof to apply. 

Mueller was exceptionally fair to trump.  One could argue he was too fair in giving trump the benefit of the doubt where a civilian would not be. 

But you can argue the office of president deserves that benefit.  And you can argue that you have to be pretty darn sure in a case like this. 

But mueller was also very clear in obstruction.  I do love the white nationalist talking point that if he obstructed something that wasn’t a crime then obstruction also isn’t a crime. Lol sure. 

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45 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

But mueller was also very clear in obstruction.  I do love the white nationalist talking point that if he obstructed something that wasn’t a crime then obstruction also isn’t a crime. Lol sure. 

I could obstruct your right to cut down a tree...😁

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I

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NDIANAPOLIS (Reuters) - President Donald Trump told the National Rifle Association on Friday he was pulling the United States out of an international arms treaty signed in 2013 by then-President Barack Obama but opposed by the NRA and other conservative groups.

The agreement covers weapons exports, ranging from small firearms to tanks, but not domestic sales.

Trump said the United Nations would soon receive formal notice of the withdrawal.

U.N. spokesman Stephane Dujarric called the treaty “a landmark achievement in the efforts to ensure responsibility in international arms transfers.” U.N. officials said they were unaware Trump had been planning to revoke the U.S. signature.

 

 

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19 hours ago, 17to85 said:

I don't think Biden is an inspiring enough candidate. They need a younger Bernie truthfully. His IDGAF attitude is what that country needs, but at his age.....

I have heard it said by political analysts that the US doesn't believe in democracy as an ideology so much as they believe in capitalism as their ideology. When they have invaded foreign countries to "prop up democracy and protect them from dictators", there have been instances where the deposed leaders were in fact democratically elected nut the country's policies were quite socialist (their words, not mine - I have not done the research to verify every "overthrow"). Point being, socialism is such a dirty word in the US that many are certain as loveable as Bernie is and no matter how much of a rock star he may be, the US will never elect a true socialist as President.

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5 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

I have heard it said by political analysts that the US doesn't believe in democracy as an ideology so much as they believe in capitalism as their ideology. When they have invaded foreign countries to "prop up democracy and protect them from dictators", there have been instances where the deposed leaders were in fact democratically elected nut the country's policies were quite socialist (their words, not mine - I have not done the research to verify every "overthrow"). Point being, socialism is such a dirty word in the US that many are certain as loveable as Bernie is and no matter how much of a rock star he may be, the US will never elect a true socialist as President.

You're not wrong, however I think attitudes are changing. It was easy to be rah rah capitalism when the cold war was going on, but capitalism has run roughshod over the working class and poor and younger generations don't have the same advantages previous ones did, socialism is gaining more traction as people realize that capitalism has left them behind. 

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44 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

You're not wrong, however I think attitudes are changing. It was easy to be rah rah capitalism when the cold war was going on, but capitalism has run roughshod over the working class and poor and younger generations don't have the same advantages previous ones did, socialism is gaining more traction as people realize that capitalism has left them behind. 

But aren’t Trump’s base believing that it’s the Government, and not capitalism, that has left them behind? And as long as the economy is strong and people have more money in their pockets (the short term effect of the Trump tax cut), it seems that most Americans will forgive any other sins. And even if younger attitudes are changing, it’s always been the older generation who are catered to (and who turn out to vote). 

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9 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

But aren’t Trump’s base believing that it’s the Government, and not capitalism, that has left them behind? And as long as the economy is strong and people have more money in their pockets (the short term effect of the Trump tax cut), it seems that most Americans will forgive any other sins. And even if younger attitudes are changing, it’s always been the older generation who are catered to (and who turn out to vote). 

Trumps base is tiny, he has driven people away from the Republican party, but the system is rigged for them down there.

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Trump’s Stonewalling Pushes House Democrats Towards Impeachment

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trumps-stonewalling-pushes-house-democrats-towards-impeachment?source=articles&via=rss

 

If he ignores them and they do nothing, they will be viewed as impotent, useless wimps. again.

Not only that, Republicans will just turn it on it's head, and use it against Democrats. 

"If he did something wrong, why didn't they impeach him?" Proof, to lots of people that he did nothing wrong.

 

Edited by Mark F
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14 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Why, you hate free health care?

I'm not really following this statement.  Are you saying that "socialism" is the reason for "free" health care?  I love it when people call things "free".  Nothing is free.  Someone is paying for it.  

In terms of health care and "socialism", I would definitely take Tommy Douglas' type of socialism any day.  He'd be considered right of the UCP if he was running today. He never ran a deficit, ever.  Always balanced his budget.  He wanted "affordable" health care, and never envisioned "free".  He wanted people to pay something, because he knew that making it completely free would cause issues.  I doubt if he were alive today, he'd be totally happy with how health care evolved in this country.  The extremely long wait times for basic care just aren't acceptable.  My friends' mom has been waiting, in a lot of pain, for almost a year now to get into a specialized clinic for treatment.  That just makes no sense.  I am not saying that I am advocating for a "US style" system, so don't even go there.  I am saying that there is a lot of room for improvement in our system, and it isn't this shining model that our propaganda has lead people to believe.   I would take a hard look at the Australian model.  I lived there for a year and talked to people about the health care system they had, and they've developed a sort of "hybrid" system with public/private, with everyone getting care, but those who can afford it paying to "jump the queue", freeing up spots in the public system for those who can't afford to pay, and reducing wait time considerably.  

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Trump ignores black #1 NFL pick to congratulate white player with history of racist tweets

Trump ignores black #1 NFL pick to congratulate white player with history of racist tweets
Official White House Photo by Shealah Craighead
written by Tom Boggioni / Raw Story April 27, 2019
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In his first tweet on Saturday morning, President Donald Trump ignored the first player picked in the NFL draft, Oklahoma quarterback Kyler Murray, who is black, to praise the number…

 

In his first tweet on Saturday morning, President Donald Trump ignored the first player picked in the NFL draft, Oklahoma quarterback Kyler Murray, who is black, to praise the number two pick — a white player with a history of racist tweets.

 

In his tweet, Trump skipped over the Heisman Trophy winner to celebrate Ohio State’s Nick Bosa — who missed most of the 2018 season — for being picked second.

 
 
“Congratulations to Nick Bosa on being picked number two in the NFL Draft. You will be a great player for years to come, maybe one of the best. Big Talent! San Francisco will embrace you but most importantly, always stay true to yourself. MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!” he tweeted.
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14 hours ago, 17to85 said:

, socialism is gaining more traction as people realize that capitalism has left them behind. 

Is it though?  What does the word "socialism" even mean anymore?  Our governments continue every day to encroach on our rights and freedoms, and to continually add comforts and services that were the purview of the individual.  The nanny-state has grown so much and continues to grow.  If someone from one hundred years ago looked at all of the entitlements that we enjoy today, they'd say that we've had a socialism in place for a long time now.  The question is - how much is enough?  How much is too much?  At what point do people have to say hey, how about some personal responsibility here?  Where does the government stop, and the individual start?

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53 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

 Where does the government stop, and the individual start?

why does one have to stop for the other start? why can't individuals use the government as a resource to facilitate their own ends? why can't both work in tandem? I mean, isn't that how it is supposed to be? we elect them, and hold them accountable and they should be working for our interests.  

I fail to see the need for an "us vs them" mentality here. 

Edited by wanna-b-fanboy
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3 hours ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Is it though?  What does the word "socialism" even mean anymore?  Our governments continue every day to encroach on our rights and freedoms, and to continually add comforts and services that were the purview of the individual.  The nanny-state has grown so much and continues to grow.  If someone from one hundred years ago looked at all of the entitlements that we enjoy today, they'd say that we've had a socialism in place for a long time now.  The question is - how much is enough?  How much is too much?  At what point do people have to say hey, how about some personal responsibility here?  Where does the government stop, and the individual start?

but do you know who the biggest benefactors of "socialism" are in the States? Corporations. That's where capitalism has failed. It's corporate welfare for the big companies and free market capitalism for the plebs. It is a problem no matter how much the left wing boogeyman drum is beaten. 

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1 hour ago, The Unknown Poster said:

I saw that news about trump and the nhl daft and even I didn’t believe it. But I guess it’s true. 

How anyone still supports the racist president is beyond me. (well I know...)

Bosa called Kap a "clown" in an August 2016 tweet. He deleted it a while ago and apologized for the tweet after being drafted. 

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1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

but do you know who the biggest benefactors of "socialism" are in the States? Corporations. That's where capitalism has failed. It's corporate welfare for the big companies and free market capitalism for the plebs. It is a problem no matter how much the left wing boogeyman drum is beaten. 

No ****... corporate welfare is alive and well... 

After the mortgage crisis of the mid aughts- all those "too big to fail" corporations that received bail out after bail out after bail out made me (and suspect most people) crazy angry.

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2 hours ago, 17to85 said:

but do you know who the biggest benefactors of "socialism" are in the States? Corporations. That's where capitalism has failed. It's corporate welfare for the big companies and free market capitalism for the plebs. It is a problem no matter how much the left wing boogeyman drum is beaten. 

so you didn't really answer my questions though.  There is no bogeyman here.  We as a society enjoy many, many entitlements.  Are you saying that there should be more?  Are you saying that you want to see corporations disbanded?  I don't really follow your line of reasoning.

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