17to85

Elliott and Goltz both for the Tim Burke special.

This is exactly why it's a terrible trade. If they'd done this trade last year no big deal, the fact that they did it after trading Schneider last year (and trading him for a smaller offer even, Edmonton is rumoured to have offered their first round pick which was 2 picks higher than what they got and a prospect like Marincin who is playing quite well this season) Just horrible management and I can't wait to see how he manages to **** up the Kesler situation too.

the companies even justify it by saying the customers prefer the smaller sizes... because if they left the sizes they same they'd raise prices and customers hate rising prices.

I think there's room in this debate for both. There should be a better system for spotting and treating mental illness, but once the line has been crossed I don't care how crazy a person is it's game over.

or he knew he wasn't going to play and wants to be in Winnipeg with his finance/wife? Sometimes things are less complicated than people make them. I'd love to see them find a role for Pierce on the team. He lost it as a player but as a person he's a good one and he bled blue and gold, gotta love that about him.

because they lose their appeal when they become over done... and let's be honest the only reason the NHL is going over board with them is because they realized they can get twice as many or more paying customers through the gates so more money = more stadium games.

to be perfectly honest I think it was as level headed a discussion on a controversial topic as you are likely to see on the internet.

Lewis is a dickhead but he'd be a good player for the short term.

I think Goltz sunk himself with his sulking. And according to Walters his contract was too big. His sulking wasn't even really sulking. Burke turned on him like Burke was prone to do and Goltz felt betrayed, I think that's completely fair because the way Burke treated a lot of players was complete and utter bullshit. Goltz got no support from anyone and received almost all of the blame. I'm not saying he would or wouldn't have worked out at qb, but he didn't get a fair shake from Burke and now his career is over (most likely) Yeah, I agree Burke didn't treat Goltz as well as he should have. And as a HC, we all know Burke sucked the Big One. But for Goltz who had just a few starts & played awful in most of them to say to the media he felt betrayed by Burke &/or Bellefeuille, I can understand why they benched him. He was sent a message by the former HC & our present OC to shut up & know his place. I figured Goltz's time was ending back then. I'm surprised they didn't release him last September. I thought it was pretty clear that he was finished here so they should have cut him then like they did today & start giving Levi Brown more reps. And that is my issue too. They should have released him right then and there.

I just want to touch on this topic, but yes the actual act is worse than simply shooting someone dead. Shooting someone is a pretty straight forward act, pull the trigger and it's done, Yeah it's still horrible to kill someone but the act only takes an instant. I wouldn't be lenient on anyone but there is a pretty significant difference between acts. To me, a person who knowingly murders a person is just as bad as someone who is mentally disturbed and performs gruesome acts. If anything, the fact they are so gruesome attests to the fact that Li was extremely disturbed. I just think especially in this case, while it is completely understandable to be horrified at what Li did, it is also impeding many people from looking at it from a purely logical point of view. Does that make sense? I admit I'm having a hard time explaining exactly what I mean. For example look at the disgusting, horrific things people are doing on bath salts and meth these days... I shudder just thinking about it. Admittedly, I too was initially shocked that he was going to be released, but I took a step back to look at the whole picture. I think where the logic breaks down for you compared to other people is that you take a more sympathetic stance which is geared towards rehabilitation, whereas other people see the justice system as a method for punishing offenders. But if you want to get into that debate it's going to completely change things and turn into a huge argument because neither side will give an inch.

Been a while since there's been a veteran out there recruiting for the team it feels like. I like it.

I think Goltz sunk himself with his sulking. And according to Walters his contract was too big. His sulking wasn't even really sulking. Burke turned on him like Burke was prone to do and Goltz felt betrayed, I think that's completely fair because the way Burke treated a lot of players was complete and utter bullshit. Goltz got no support from anyone and received almost all of the blame. I'm not saying he would or wouldn't have worked out at qb, but he didn't get a fair shake from Burke and now his career is over (most likely)

I just want to touch on this topic, but yes the actual act is worse than simply shooting someone dead. Shooting someone is a pretty straight forward act, pull the trigger and it's done, Yeah it's still horrible to kill someone but the act only takes an instant. I wouldn't be lenient on anyone but there is a pretty significant difference between acts.

Writing was on the wall with Goltz but still a shame. He got jerked around hard by Burke. Pumped his tires all offseason then the first mistakes and under the bus he goes. I know nothing about Brohm but it's going to be interesting to watch all the qbs compete in camp. See what shakes down.

I think that is pretty much a given. This guy needed to be on heavy meds for schizophrenia but instead he checked out of/ran away from the Ontario facility before he could be diagnosed. It raises an interesting question - just how much should the state interfere in the rights of the individual if they don't want to seek help for mental issues? Do we as citizens just sit back and wait until the mentally ill chop up and eat someone before we commit them to a facility? The problem with Li was that he didn't do enough to be forcibly committed, and didn't trust "western medicine" so he fell through the cracks, sort of. This is where the biggest key comes in, gotta improve the ability to see mental problems before something bad happens and make sure that people know there is help available and that it's an OK thing to seek out. Prevention is absolutely the biggest thing. Now how you go about doing that who knows, but there's experts who should be able to figure that all out.

For what it's worth, people who kill someone by driving drunk should get stiffer penalties too. This does boil down to philosophical differences in how the justice system should work though, it's unlikely that you'll change anyones mind.

because no one cares about Vancouver or Ottawa. Seriously two of the shittiest all time franchises ever. At least Edmonton had their glory years and Calgary even had one cup in their history. Neither team in this one has ever won **** and no one cares about them at all. They care about the Canucks here in BC when they are winning. Suddenly everyone is on the bandwagon, which is really sad to see. Canucks fans are the biggest band-wagon jumpers in Canada, and the biggest ******-bags. I witnessed a verbal sparring match between some Canucks and Oiler fans last year at a game, the Canucks fans were ribbing the Oiler fans and telling them how bad they sucked, and the Oiler fans just responded with "how many Cups you guys got? Oh yeah you're the 42 year old virgins". The only claim to fame the Canucks have is almost winning a cup... but both Calgary and Edmonton pulled that off in the last decade as well. Gillis is on his way to ******* up that team so it won't be long until they're re-acquainted with the bottom of the standings. So annoying when they try and trash talk anyone.

Nah the guy was a goof before that. Some of us remember all the hype he went to Hamilton with and that team sucked then. The only good thing he did in Hamilton was sign Printers to that monstrosity of a contract which prevented Taman from getting him.

because no one cares about Vancouver or Ottawa. Seriously two of the shittiest all time franchises ever. At least Edmonton had their glory years and Calgary even had one cup in their history. Neither team in this one has ever won **** and no one cares about them at all.

To be quite honest I'd rather see the players getting a bigger share than the owners simply taking a bigger cut. Why do they need to buy more ivory back scratchers while the players kill themselves.

Morris is the biggest douchebag going. He's got a giant ego on him and thinks he's better than he is.

Team Canada is coming to next years Brier I believe, as well as many other changes. There is going to be a relegation and the free ride for teams from a lot of the maritime provinces is going to end. There is much debate about whether it's a good change or not, I personally think it is a good change. Looking at the lineup of teams this year you basically have 3 teams with a shot of winning, Stoughton, Koe and Morris. The rest of them are also rans, and yes that includes Brad Gushue. Jacobs team is an interesting one, inconsistency is really their big weakness at this point but based on the Brier and Trials maybe they've outgrown those problems. Will be worth watching to see how they do going forward because we are likely to see a huge shift in the curling landscape next season. Lots of guys like Howard and Stoughton and even Martin might be retiring which opens up the field a ton, not to mention with the start of a new olympic cycle a lot of teams will be changing around.

Hopefully they can get something hammered out without too much drama. It's in everyone's best interest to do it quickly and painlessly. It's the one sport where I don't mind the players looking for more. They don't get paid millions and they still have to be as dedicated as any other pro athlete.

Generalization that is way off the mark. A lot of people who have been touched by mental health issues would take offense to this remark. That's why we, as a collective group of people trying to co-exist with one another, rely on professionals (i.e Mark H's point) in these chosen vocations to apply their education, expertise, experiences and emotional intelligence to the most relevant information/evidence available. Usually no one case is identical to the other that warrants a particular decision for that situation. Yes, sometimes they get it right and sometimes they don't. That's true for any vocation. It's called the complexity of life. Quite frankly I don't care if those people are offended. I see no reason to be PC about it. If you're crazy you're crazy why tip toe around it? Like I said I am all for mental health awareness and programs to help people and ending the nonsense that some problems you just have to suck up and deal with it... but once you cross the line from simply crazy to crazed killer I'm sorry but it's game over and I want that person out of society. Yeah well, drunk people have also been known to do some crazy things, especially while behind the steering wheel. but if you commit a crime while drunk you don't get to use the techinicality that you weren't in your right state of mind, you get held responsible for your actions. Drunkeness can reduce a murder charge to manslaughter, which greatly shortens the sentence. When said person is released - there is no way to know if they'll reoffend or not. yeah but murder vs. manslaughter is a legal terminology thing. Basically to commit muder you need to have intent, manslaughter is more of a "whoops killed someone" charge. For the record if a drunk driver kills someone I'm in favour of getting them out of society too. They too blew their chance.

Generalization that is way off the mark. A lot of people who have been touched by mental health issues would take offense to this remark. That's why we, as a collective group of people trying to co-exist with one another, rely on professionals (i.e Mark H's point) in these chosen vocations to apply their education, expertise, experiences and emotional intelligence to the most relevant information/evidence available. Usually no one case is identical to the other that warrants a particular decision for that situation. Yes, sometimes they get it right and sometimes they don't. That's true for any vocation. It's called the complexity of life. Quite frankly I don't care if those people are offended. I see no reason to be PC about it. If you're crazy you're crazy why tip toe around it? Like I said I am all for mental health awareness and programs to help people and ending the nonsense that some problems you just have to suck up and deal with it... but once you cross the line from simply crazy to crazed killer I'm sorry but it's game over and I want that person out of society. Yeah well, drunk people have also been known to do some crazy things, especially while behind the steering wheel. but if you commit a crime while drunk you don't get to use the techinicality that you weren't in your right state of mind, you get held responsible for your actions.