17to85

little bit early to say Dinwiddie hasn't had success coaching isn't it? Not even half a year into his first gig, never mind that he was only brought in to be a QB coach initially anyway. The best players don't always wind up being the best coaches. Scott Milanovich wasn't anything exciting at qb and he seems to be doing fine coaching, Whereas Matt Dunigan was a great qb and not much of a coach. As far as being coaches go neither one of them has proven anything and how good a player was has very little to do with how good a coach they wind up being.

Suber was hurt in preseason no? So that's a move because of injury, most moves have been made because of injury. Other than that no one has really come off the roster. It is far too premature to go about making claims like "if you don't perform MOS doesn't let you play" If anything he is showing remarkable patience with players. Suber been healthy for awhile and there was rumblings he should dress last game. MOS has stated since he got here it all about win-losses. You telling me he will put up with under-performing players because? I am saying that the only moves that he has made so far have been due to injuries really. I know what happened with Suber, he got hurt and someone else went in and did the job well so he can't get back into the lineup. Same kind of thing happened with Grigsby, Cotton got hurt in preseason and Grigsby had a good start to the year so he didn't come out, but I haven't seen anything to suggest at this point that O'Shea is going by what you initially stated. I am telling you Grigsby is underperforming and we haven't seen a change made...

Suber was hurt in preseason no? So that's a move because of injury, most moves have been made because of injury. Other than that no one has really come off the roster. It is far too premature to go about making claims like "if you don't perform MOS doesn't let you play" If anything he is showing remarkable patience with players.

and if they do start him you will see what I mean. We're not getting a brand new offensive line in here any time soon, but we have the chance to play a runningback who was better in preseason and at this point you take the improvements where you can get them.

and the younger generation is wrong.

He had one carry in the game against SK, and 4 against Ham. That's hardly enough to judge him on how well he runs the ball. You totally miss what I said, didn't you. When he got the ball, the defenders were in the backfield with him - hence why he only has the carries he has. My point is this my friend - you could bring any RB in the world and plop them in the Bomber backfield - if he gets the ball and is looking into the whites of the eyes of the defender - he ain't going anywhere. Until our Oline gets stronger, and we can disguise our runs better, Cotton, Grigsby, or me. Doesn't matter. Charles Roberts regularly left guys grasping for air in the backfield. Now I'm not expecting these guys on the team now to be as good as Charles Roberts, but it clearly goes to show that your "no running back would make a difference" argument is flawed. I expect a back to be able to make people miss at least sometimes, Grigsby has done it only a handful of times and seems to have a remarkable ability to run into tacklers. He's not making enough people miss and that's a problem. Cotton I think can make more people miss and can generate more yards as a result. He might get stuff for a loss too, but I bet he won't get stuffed for a loss as often.,

I"ll give you that - and I think Cotton, from what little i've seen of him, has a bit of the edge there. But I've seen Grigsby make people miss in the open field though, he even got a nice TD run doing a little stutter step. Amazing how fans remember only bad things. Bottom line is - we had no oline last year, and this year it has improved but not a lot. We still need more. Here's the deal a lot of you guys are missing, a running back, even an amateur one, never loses yards, or at least very rarely loses yards. When a running back carries the ball 15 times and has 25 yard, and 17 of those came on one run, that is NOT the running back, that is the OLINE (and one could argue play calling and running schemes used). That's why I'm snickering at the 'put in Cotton' folks. It doesn't matter, and personally I like Cotton, I think he's better and can make people miss, but unless you are getting a beer every time the bombers are running, and don't have a PVR to replay it, then even a blind man can see why Grigsby isn't getting any traction. He can't, he's gotta duck and run for his life as soon as the ball is handed to him. Until we get holes where our RB's can actually run through, I can't judge them. no you're wrong. There were plenty of times when he lost yards because he ran sideways or hesitated in the backfield and let guys get to him there. I'm not trying to absolve the o-line here, but Grigsby is making them look worse than they are by not simply slamming the ball up in there.

Do they really? I want you to actually justify that comment because I see a team that lost because they turned the ball over when they got it and that isn't affected by the Riders picking up meaningless rushing yards (and yes they were meaningless because they didn't result in a hell of a lot of points) Cuz you asked so nicely.... Rider's offense was almost non-existent before they started running Messam. Continue with that and our offense gets more chances with the ball, their defense gets tired due to lopsided TOP, they lose the field position battle and the game. The yards weren't meaningless, although your posts are getting more and more so. As I thought, you're going with the "just because" reasoning. The Bombers got the ball back plenty of times with plenty of time left and they utterly failed to move the ball. Now in your world apparently more chances would have made it better? I dunno about that, we've seen this offense bog down before against certain defenses and it doesn't matter how many times they get the ball back. Willy wasn't feeling it clearly, he was throwing dangerous passes, they couldn't get the run game going... More opportunities with the ball I don't think would have helped, and to be quite honest, I think without Messam the Riders were a more dangerous team because they would have actually tried passing the ball rather than settling into the conservative 6 yards a carry game they did and they might have broken a big play or two and scored more points. I'll give up 100+ yards in a half if the qb barely cracks 100 passing.

He's the starting runningback with an offensive coordinator that likes to use runningbacks in the passing game.... Moore has missed games to injury, Watson has missed games to injury, Kelly has missed games to inury... is it any wonder the RB on the team has a higher percentage of plays going to him? He's been basically the only constant on the offense.

Do they really? I want you to actually justify that comment because I see a team that lost because they turned the ball over when they got it and that isn't affected by the Riders picking up meaningless rushing yards (and yes they were meaningless because they didn't result in a hell of a lot of points)

The tends to hesitate before attacking the line is the thing that bugs me most about him. If he'd just hit the line with speed he might break free more often.

Fans have eyes, We saw Cotton and Grigsby both in preseason and one of them was better, but he got hurt. Then Grigsby had a good start to the year and they can't justify taking him out. O'Shea is never going to say anything negative in the press about a player, we just have to hope that they'll make the change because we can't keep using a back who goes down as easy as Grigsby.

Agreed... but the real benefit that I see Messam brings is that you can field two backs and not affect the ratio - let's say Grigsby and Messam - two totally different styles and keep defences off balance. Basically, that's what happened - Bombers started shutting down Ford so Sask just changed to Messam, took some time to adjust... by that time it was too late. and yet if the Bombers had avoided turnovers it wouldn't have mattered that Messam had over 100 yards. The Riders simply could not pass the ball against the Bombers D, the only thing they could do was get 6 yards per carry from Messam, but when you're handing off twice like that you're only one short gain from kicking the ball. Willy doesn't commit 4 turnovers the Bombers win and we're LOLing hard at the riders offensive effort. Instead they turned the ball over and lost the game.

i discussed that in another thread, the handful of one off carries he has actually gotten are not anywhere close to being any kind of sample size to draw conclusions from. He was better at getting yards in pre-season than Grigsby when dealing with the same things, give him an actual workload to see if he is better or not. It's too easy to just blame the OL or the game plan, Grigsby is leaving yards on the field because he is terrible at making people miss and too hesitant a runner.

all 6 rushes he's had tell you that? Come on, give a runningback a chance to actually carry the mail not one carry here, or one carry there. He showed he was much better than Grigsby in preseason at getting something from nothing, give him an actual chance to do it in regular season.

again with the bad call and bad execution... you gotta get over that nonsense. If Willy had executed it right then no problem, but if you take your time to throw it and then throw it soft yeah it's bad but because of the mechanics of the play not the call.

That's selective reasoning at best. Yes some times the running game fails because of the o-line... but other times it fails because the back isn't good enough at getting away from people. Sometimes a back has to take it upon himself to make something out of nothing, Grigsby doesn't do that.

Let's go good football! Give me some good games to watch and who wins is really irrelevant.

Washington is one of this teams best players... He makes an impact every game on defense. You don't bench him entirely because he's had trouble with returns, you simply take him off the return team. There's other guys on the roster who can do that aspect of the game.

I wouldn't say that this team has a delicate psyche. They've come from behind a number of times this season and it looks like MOS has instilled an expectation to win. I have no idea why they're sticking with Grigsby at RB, but I doubt it's to protect his feelings. The coaching staff seems to be in love with him for better or worse. Maybe he's the type of guy who dominates practice and turns off in games. see the post above yours. Instead of blaming just grigsby, look at the Oline also. Dude was constantly being stuffed in the back field, what can the rb do, any running back for that matter do when he always has 2 or 3 if not more guys in his face the second he gets the ball. I'm not just blaming Grigsby. In the above post he was the only player mentioned by name. I think he's got great speed and they need to find plays that get him into space more often. I do have an issue with his habit of taking the handoff and either slowing up before hitting the line or making a few stutter steps and losing all his momentum. This. There are a lot of times when he will stop and dance around and get nothing... if he'd just keep going forward and go forward hard he'd get at least another yard, maybe more and quite honestly sometimes that's enough to make a difference. He is a hesitant runner who seems to always be trying to get by everyone for a big play when sometimes you just gotta put your head down and make the defender work for the tackle.

Yeah I don't really have an issue with the play call, it's just one of those throws that has to be out and to the receiver before the db can react. Willy took his time getting the ball there and the result was a pick.

It seems to me like a lot of Grigsbys problems are that he loses so much speed when he changes direction and he doesn't have that real explosive first step. We were watching an old game from 2003 before this game last night and looking at Charles Roberts it's just amazing how many yards he could gain when there was nothing there and it's all because he could switch directions without losing too much speed and then get back to his top speed in no time. There may be some problems with the OL opening holes but Grigsby I don't think is the guy to use in that situation. He's a good receiver so I think there can definitely be a spot on the offense for him, but I want to see Cotton get the bulk of the carries just to see if he can do more. Hell I don't know that outside of Moore any of our american receivers are doing so much we have to leave them on the field, why not put both backs out there and use them more? Try new things because when you can't run the ball you're making it too easy for defenses to sit back and wait for passes to pick off.

Hey I got nothing against thin lapels and thinner jackets but that's only because of my body type, what really bugs me is the super skinny pants that are all the rage today. Some of us actually have thighs and an ass here and I can't cram them into the skinny legs on pants these days.,

Messam wasn't the reason they lost, and it's not even close. You turn the ball over that much and give up touchdowns outright on a couple of those turnovers what do you think is going to happen? The Riders offence, even with Messam getting over 100 yards did **** all for scoring. Let em run and kick a field goal if it means you hold their qb to low totals. They had plenty of chances with the ball at the end of the game, they turned it over too much plain and simple. Willy forced a couple passes into places he shouldn't and they were picked that's game.

It's a tradition that is a result of televising sports in black and white.... dark vs. light so viewers can tell the home team from the visitors. Also why Referees wear stripes, so people could tell them apart on black and white screens. It stuck even though there's no need for it now because people like traditions.