17to85

Do they really? I want you to actually justify that comment because I see a team that lost because they turned the ball over when they got it and that isn't affected by the Riders picking up meaningless rushing yards (and yes they were meaningless because they didn't result in a hell of a lot of points)

The tends to hesitate before attacking the line is the thing that bugs me most about him. If he'd just hit the line with speed he might break free more often.

Fans have eyes, We saw Cotton and Grigsby both in preseason and one of them was better, but he got hurt. Then Grigsby had a good start to the year and they can't justify taking him out. O'Shea is never going to say anything negative in the press about a player, we just have to hope that they'll make the change because we can't keep using a back who goes down as easy as Grigsby.

Agreed... but the real benefit that I see Messam brings is that you can field two backs and not affect the ratio - let's say Grigsby and Messam - two totally different styles and keep defences off balance. Basically, that's what happened - Bombers started shutting down Ford so Sask just changed to Messam, took some time to adjust... by that time it was too late. and yet if the Bombers had avoided turnovers it wouldn't have mattered that Messam had over 100 yards. The Riders simply could not pass the ball against the Bombers D, the only thing they could do was get 6 yards per carry from Messam, but when you're handing off twice like that you're only one short gain from kicking the ball. Willy doesn't commit 4 turnovers the Bombers win and we're LOLing hard at the riders offensive effort. Instead they turned the ball over and lost the game.

i discussed that in another thread, the handful of one off carries he has actually gotten are not anywhere close to being any kind of sample size to draw conclusions from. He was better at getting yards in pre-season than Grigsby when dealing with the same things, give him an actual workload to see if he is better or not. It's too easy to just blame the OL or the game plan, Grigsby is leaving yards on the field because he is terrible at making people miss and too hesitant a runner.

all 6 rushes he's had tell you that? Come on, give a runningback a chance to actually carry the mail not one carry here, or one carry there. He showed he was much better than Grigsby in preseason at getting something from nothing, give him an actual chance to do it in regular season.

again with the bad call and bad execution... you gotta get over that nonsense. If Willy had executed it right then no problem, but if you take your time to throw it and then throw it soft yeah it's bad but because of the mechanics of the play not the call.

That's selective reasoning at best. Yes some times the running game fails because of the o-line... but other times it fails because the back isn't good enough at getting away from people. Sometimes a back has to take it upon himself to make something out of nothing, Grigsby doesn't do that.

Let's go good football! Give me some good games to watch and who wins is really irrelevant.

Washington is one of this teams best players... He makes an impact every game on defense. You don't bench him entirely because he's had trouble with returns, you simply take him off the return team. There's other guys on the roster who can do that aspect of the game.

I wouldn't say that this team has a delicate psyche. They've come from behind a number of times this season and it looks like MOS has instilled an expectation to win. I have no idea why they're sticking with Grigsby at RB, but I doubt it's to protect his feelings. The coaching staff seems to be in love with him for better or worse. Maybe he's the type of guy who dominates practice and turns off in games. see the post above yours. Instead of blaming just grigsby, look at the Oline also. Dude was constantly being stuffed in the back field, what can the rb do, any running back for that matter do when he always has 2 or 3 if not more guys in his face the second he gets the ball. I'm not just blaming Grigsby. In the above post he was the only player mentioned by name. I think he's got great speed and they need to find plays that get him into space more often. I do have an issue with his habit of taking the handoff and either slowing up before hitting the line or making a few stutter steps and losing all his momentum. This. There are a lot of times when he will stop and dance around and get nothing... if he'd just keep going forward and go forward hard he'd get at least another yard, maybe more and quite honestly sometimes that's enough to make a difference. He is a hesitant runner who seems to always be trying to get by everyone for a big play when sometimes you just gotta put your head down and make the defender work for the tackle.

Yeah I don't really have an issue with the play call, it's just one of those throws that has to be out and to the receiver before the db can react. Willy took his time getting the ball there and the result was a pick.

It seems to me like a lot of Grigsbys problems are that he loses so much speed when he changes direction and he doesn't have that real explosive first step. We were watching an old game from 2003 before this game last night and looking at Charles Roberts it's just amazing how many yards he could gain when there was nothing there and it's all because he could switch directions without losing too much speed and then get back to his top speed in no time. There may be some problems with the OL opening holes but Grigsby I don't think is the guy to use in that situation. He's a good receiver so I think there can definitely be a spot on the offense for him, but I want to see Cotton get the bulk of the carries just to see if he can do more. Hell I don't know that outside of Moore any of our american receivers are doing so much we have to leave them on the field, why not put both backs out there and use them more? Try new things because when you can't run the ball you're making it too easy for defenses to sit back and wait for passes to pick off.

Hey I got nothing against thin lapels and thinner jackets but that's only because of my body type, what really bugs me is the super skinny pants that are all the rage today. Some of us actually have thighs and an ass here and I can't cram them into the skinny legs on pants these days.,

Messam wasn't the reason they lost, and it's not even close. You turn the ball over that much and give up touchdowns outright on a couple of those turnovers what do you think is going to happen? The Riders offence, even with Messam getting over 100 yards did **** all for scoring. Let em run and kick a field goal if it means you hold their qb to low totals. They had plenty of chances with the ball at the end of the game, they turned it over too much plain and simple. Willy forced a couple passes into places he shouldn't and they were picked that's game.

It's a tradition that is a result of televising sports in black and white.... dark vs. light so viewers can tell the home team from the visitors. Also why Referees wear stripes, so people could tell them apart on black and white screens. It stuck even though there's no need for it now because people like traditions.

No I'm not under rating him at all, I like him, he's a good bottom 6 centre, but there's lots of teams out there that have good bottom 6 centres like that. As for Horcoff, you could try moving him up the lineup but it won't look pretty. He's lost his speed and lost whatever finishing ability he once had. I was a fan of his at one point but it was just all kinds of sad watching him trying to contribute to the Oilers. He's a bottom line guy at this point who can't handle bigger responsibilities anymore. Dallas I think is being over rated a bit just because of the way their top 6 forwards look. There's a hell of a lot of offensive talent there, but I'm not sure the balance is all that great in that group. Neither of those centres are exactly defensive stalwarts and when teams like LA and Chicago and Boston are the teams having the most success and their top 6 centres have that great 2 way game I don't know that Dallas compares. Hell I think I like Chicagos centre depth more since they added Brad Richards, Boston still has good centre depth, the Pens probably do have the best with Crosby and Malkin at 1 and 2 then follow it up with Sutter at 3...

Wild or nothing. Shameless Wild fanboi here.

Aren't you supposed to be napping?

So we're drinking g at a curling bonspiel back when this was still on the air. My gf asks 17to85s roommate to hold her purse for a second. So he pulls this gag. Well, shall hasn't seen the commercial, and when she's drinking, she's not afraid to haul off on someone. She doesn't get the gag and winds up and absolutely hammers the poor bastard. She's a wee blonde but she gave him a good shot to the gut. Never again has poor Joe tried the plastic bag trick... "At least I didn't hit anyone"

He hasn't done much... one interception when Glenn tossed it right at him, couple borderline head shots but other than that I don't notice him too much.

I can finally rejoin the chat...looking forward to tipping a few and enjoying what should be a really good football game. The debate now: Whisky from the 66 we brought back from Grand Forks, or one of the Winnipeg micro-brews we brought back from the MLCC. Half Pints, Farmery and Fort Garry all stocked up at the house...hmmm...You couldn't make a bad choice if you tried. you don't know that, it could be crown. The **** is wrong with crown? it's an awful whiskey how do you figure? I'm not going to claim it's the only whiskey or the best whiskey, but awful is pretty strong words. It's sweet but not smooth. Not a fan. see I kind of like my rye to burn a little bit so not being smooth I don't see as a real negative.

Oh please like Bomber fans need instructions on how to handle losing streaks. What a waste of time this thread is.

LOL not even. Eakin is a nice bottom 6 centre but lots of teams have those guys, Horcoff though is an old guy who is fading really really fast. I mean he was playing like a legit top line centre for a couple years in Edmonton, but that's only a few years shy of being a decade ago, he's not anywhere close to the same player.

oh I thought we were playing the Riders....